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Drug info - bk-MDA (3,4-methylenedioxycathinone)

Discussion in 'Beta-Ketones' started by cadillac555, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. cadillac555

    cadillac555 Silver Member

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    Swim would like to propose a question. Would

    3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ??? )
    compare with
    3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-METHCATHINONE ( METHYLONE )

    IN THE SAME WAY

    3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-AMPHETAMINE ( MDA )
    compares with
    3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-METHAMPHETAMINE ( MDMA )


    Maybe this could be the a way to add some serotonin function to the "methylone" type experience, and possibly add some more of the positive MDMA-like qualities to the experience;
    as with amphetamines, MDA is more psychedelic than MDMA, a property that is usually the result of higher serotonin levels.

    Could swim be on to something here ???
     
  2. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Newbie

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    That would be bk-MDA. It would be interesting to give that to some lab rats. It must have been made at sometime.

    There would be a correspondence-- probably less potent than MDA. Quite likely a pleasant stimulant.
     
  3. cadillac555

    cadillac555 Silver Member

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    What would be the correct formula for it ( swim is going to ask some of his suppliers if they can get it ;)
     
  4. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Newbie

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    It seems that a whole series of MDCATH or bk-MDA homologues have been synthesized, if I understand correctly. See this PDF.
     
  5. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    SWIM remembers reading that just like MDMA is partially metabolized into MDA, MDMCAT is partially metabolized into MDCAT. Let us know if you have any luck.
     
  6. trip.more

    trip.more Newbie

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    From what swim understands it degrades rapidly so it's not suitable to distribute.MDMC is already used for 3,4-ethylenedioxy-n-methylamphetamine ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  7. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    In the paper enquirewithin posted, they mention MDCAT being a possible drug of abuse. I don't believe they mention it degrading anywhere in there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  8. cadillac555

    cadillac555 Silver Member

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    Yes Swim only remembers reading the degradation of cathinone itself, not the bk-MDA or similar analogs.
    Is this on the research chem market anywhere ??? It seems SWIMS suppliers only carry Methylone :(
    He can't wait to find some of this to try on some of his lab rats.
     
  9. FrankenChrist

    FrankenChrist Iridium Member

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    Since MDMA is a very stable substance and MDCAT supposedly isn't, what causes this difference?

    Mind you I don't know too much about chemistry.
     
  10. radiometer

    radiometer bananadine addict Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    There are two theories as far as I know.

    One is that the beta-keto analogues of primary amines are subject to dimerization. Basically, pairs of molecules will join at the amine end to form a new, inactive, compound. The ketone group of the one molecule gets stuck to the amine of the other, and vice-versa.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimer

    There is also a second problem with oxidation - see attached image. This is what happens to cathinone:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2007
  11. Broshious

    Broshious Silver Member

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    Re: 3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE ( MDC ?? ) instead of Methylone ( MDMC )

    If either of those theories is true, how rapid would the degredation be? To me it seems like if degradation were a huge problem then the aforementioned research paper would have said something about it.
     
  12. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    Like bk-MDMA is methylone, bk-MDEA is Ethylone and bk-MBDB is butylone. What would be a logical name for bk-MDA?
     
  13. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    alone ?
     
  14. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Newbie

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    beta-ketone-Methylenedioxyamphetamine ... which can't really exist under that name.
     
  15. trptamene

    trptamene Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)


    I dont get the pattern? It's beta-keto whatever right whatever right.

    and aren't the -ones (methylone, ethylone, propylone, butylone) specificaclly referring to the oxidized version methylene-dioxy-alkyl-amphetamines)

    (bk-MDMA=beta-keto-methylene-dioxy-methyl-amphetamine=methylone, bk-MDEA=beta-keto-methylene-dioxy-ethyl-amphetamine=ethylone, bk-MDPA=beta-keto-methylene-dioxy-propyl-amphetamine=propylone, bk-MDBA=beta-keto-methylene-dioxy-butyl-amphetamine=butylone) ?

    Is this right? What is bk-MBDB?

    so there for if your "alkyl" group was a proton (bk-MDA) would be protione/protiolone/protylone/protone? What if it was deuterioum deuteriolone?

    Maybe instead hydrolone? (for hydrogen)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  16. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    If the methyl-, ehtyl-, butyl refers to the N-substitution, the bk-MDA would mean no N-substitution, so "alone" would be most consistent with the existing RC nomenclature, the a prefix referring to no substitution on the nitrogen. Hydrolone or dihydrolone would work. However it does not sound good either.

    Maybe a catchy name like "rapture", "bliss", "euphoria" or "explosion" ?

    bk-MBDB is butylone. (2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butan-1-one)
    Propylone does not exist on the RC market (dunno why) and there is no information on it that SWIM knows of.
     
  17. trptamene

    trptamene Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    Does butylone exist? I though alfa just pulled that out of somewhere...

    I would expect to have trouble crossing the BBB and thus being inactive or of low-activity.

    But I would've thought DET would not be that active orally either.

    EDIT:

    Oh, I guess so It's on erowid and they call it bk-MBDB, I don't get it?
    Oh...this is actualy alpha-ethyl-beta-keto-methylene-dioxy-methamphetamine or beta-keto-2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butane where MBDB=2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butane..

    My conclusion...this is a bad shorthand naming system, but I guess its just part of the history of it all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  18. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Newbie

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    "Butylone" as a name for bk-MBDB has gone out of favour as the name was already in use for phenobarbitol. I believe that Shulgin has accepted the bk- prefix for beta ketones.With methylone the name has stuck, however.
     
  19. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Newbie

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    We can always draw up molecular structures of each possible relative of the series - until our eyes pop. Shall we?
     
  20. trptamene

    trptamene Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: bk-MDA (3,4 METHYLENE-DIOXY-CATHINONE)

    Here is a start. Here's the beta-ketones (left) and their "reduced" equivalents (right) for comparison

    Column 1 Column 2
    0 [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2011