1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Drug info - Bupropion (Wellbutrin) as a drug of abuse

Discussion in 'Antidepressants' started by aaa5, May 23, 2009.

  1. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    My Monkey told me this:

    "I used to be depressive drowsy preson with social phobia. That's my intersts and liking in stimulants drugs has appeared about two years ago. Some months ago I was abusing amphetamine for some time. I started to take bupropion 150mg ed. It appered to me as ideal drug. It made me happpy, energetic, creative. it seemed i will change my life diffinelety. Nevethless my drug and alcohol craving didn't dissappered completly. Ounce upon a time I tried to snort one pill of wellbutrin and it showed me amazingly high stimulating, dopaminergic properties and craving for snorting another pill shortly after. I started to abuse it every some time becouse of intense craving for stimulants that I have every use of alcohol. In the begining I was snorting ebout 3 pills, but now I lose control and can snort over 10 pills a day (every some time , not daily)!Since After that I'm trying not to use wellbutrin for some time in anyway after about a week i don't resist to get high on something. I suppose I have developed tolerance, so that wellbutrin is not working as it has to ;/ I feel very guilty I wasted my very chance to change my life. I want you to advice me if any long time break in taking this medication would decrease the tolerance to the point as on the begging of the treatment and how long the break has to be? I don't abuse it daily and I didn't before. I don't feel good, I still depressive. Great thanks in advance :)"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2009
  2. wespawloski

    wespawloski Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    120
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    354
    27 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Abuse of Reuptake inhibitors can lead to continual over-stimulation, thereby increasing one's tolerance to the drug. It is a common issue with all drugs; throughout the history of the older SSRIs, there are many stories and instances of dosage increase.

    One would suggest you discontinue all use if possible; it may be rough, yet will cleanse the system quicker. One could return to his normal dose and just wait for the effects to even out.

    It is all very dependant on the individual, at the very least he should assume he is free of addictive consequences only after he feels no desire to take the medication. The problem with reuptake inhibitors, the effects may be so... calm, they are sometimes hard to recognise. Just give it some time, whatever is comfortable. It would be advised to continue use, as we can assume one would still get a benefit from his medication; yet, a drop to normal or reduced levels would be recommended.

    Good luck
     
  3. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    This is still My Monkey talking:

    "I was discontinoation for a long period of time is the only way. I stopped using the drug a few days ago to evena out the tolerance. Do you know something how the period hes to be examply? I'm planning start using a strong stimulant soon and wait the tolerance for wellbutrin to wear off.

    MAybe one kwonws something about selegiline as an adtidepresant? In my country it's impossible to receive it for depression but I found it as disinformation consequence."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2009
  4. wespawloski

    wespawloski Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    120
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    354
    27 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    What would someone mean by "strong stimulant". If he means an amphetamine, he should not even bother to wait.
     
  5. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    The Monkey has this to say:

    "I probably mean 3,4-dimethylaminorex. Are you talking seriously? Don't other stimulants make cross-tolerance with bupropion? I find comments of people, probably completely clean, getting high taking a one pill a day. But I am not clear so I can't , but I believe if I was clear I could.

    P.S. What about drinking alcohol on on bupropion and fluoxetine? I'm taking fuloxetine 20mg ed and I find the antidepresant effect also wear off some time ago, dispitre I've never abuse it. But sometimes I abse alcohol or benzodiazepines.

    P.S.2- Is it risky to take any drugs (stimulants) on bupropion making it impossible to work in the future anyway, anytime becouse of strong "combined" cross-tolerance?"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2009
  6. wespawloski

    wespawloski Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    120
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    354
    27 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    "Don't other stimulants make cross-tolerance with bupropion?" Yes, somewhat :p But, the mode of action between these two is very different. Bupropion simply increases the amount of stimulation attempts of the dopamine and norepinephrine; whereas, I assume methylaminorex acts in a similar manner to an amphetamine. This would mean methylaminorex not only blocks the reuptake inhibitors, as bupropion, but stimulates the synapses in such a manner that they actually dump more neurotransmitter out.

    In summary, Bupropion is a crutch to one's dopamine neurons, increasing their rate of fire. methylaminorex, from what I could gather, is very much like methamphetamine; and in that case is, comparatively, is a wheelchair strapped with jet-thrusters.

    One who would be feeling the effects of his Bupropion waning, would feel very little in detriment to his amphetamine's stimulation.

    "I find comments of people, probably completely clean, getting high taking a one pill a day. But I am not clear so I can't , but I believe if I was clear I could." First, one can never assume what works for 'other people' works for him. He must also realize that no dosages were specified, leaving the user completely out of range to compare.

    "What about drinking alcohol on on bupropion and fluoxetine? I'm taking fuloxetine 20mg ed and I find the antidepresant effect also wear off some time ago, dispitre I've never abuse it. But sometimes I abse alcohol or benzodiazepines. " If the dosage one is prescribed by his doctor begins to lose effect, he should consult said doctor. It is a common trait with all stimulating medicines to lose effectiveness; a consult with a doc may be necessitated to discover a new dose / plan that works well for the individual.

    How long has SWIY been taking fluoxetine?

    Alcohol and Benzodiazipines are not necessarily bad in conjunction with SSRIs. One can experience them normally; but it is recommended to be very safe with them, as users report enhanced effects without sedation which can lead to reckless behavior... with a possibility for one to enter respiratory arrest or even a coma. The same can be said for SNRIs and SNDRIs, to which I am classifying Bupropion. Bupropion has been known to lessen the effects of alcohol which leads to the user ingesting more than he can handle which is always dangerous. And, alcohol has been shown to speed up Bupropion metabolism; so while on a drinking foray, one may get extreme, uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous effects.

    "Is it risky to take any drugs (stimulants) on bupropion making it impossible to work in the future anyway, anytime becouse of strong "combined" cross-tolerance?" In any short term interval, yes... the stronger stimulant willquickly build up a tolerance much outside the realm of Bupropion. Just think of a methamphetamine addict, would they get any fix from Bupropion? If one decided to detox from all stimulants, he could then start over again with littlertolerance... But that takes a long time to fully naturalize. Do not take anything else in conjunction with dimethylaminorex; it is very strong and not considered accurate treatment. It is banned in many countries for a reason :p
    -------------

    dimethylaminorex is a really interesting choice for treatment... In that it is not a viable treatment option. Something so addictive and powerful should not be used therapeutically; unless SWIY's doctor recommends it (and even then...).

    If SWIY does switch to dimethylaminorex, I would suggest he stop all other medications; there would be no need for the tiny stimulation they give in comparison.

    Be careful with alcohol, too. There is a reason for the warning on those reuptake-inhibitor labels.

    Be safe, have fun :p
     
  7. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,452
    Female from U.S.A.
    I'm frankly surprised that this SWIY (ahem, ahem) isn't status epilepticus. Bad, bad, bad drug to screw with, and for fuck's sake, don't add a stimulant to the mix. Don't add alcohol. Not sure what this swiy wants with selegiline, but that's not something you go playing around with, either. If swiy wants to treat his/her depression, the alcohol/benzo/whatever abuse has to stop first.

    fwiw, selegiline isn't a first-line antidepressant for a reason. If you take it, even in patch form, you have to hold your beer, cider, and red wine (plus other things) intake to a bare minimum, if you ever touch it again. If bupropion and fluoxetine both don't work, I'd try a few othe things before an MAOI like selegiline.
     
  8. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    I don't understand you here.

    SWIM knows that but his problems are caused only by abusing not using the medication. The intense craving for dopaminergic stimulants comes up shortly after drinking any alcohol... Anyway the bupropion is the only dopaminergic antidepressive on our market. there is also selegiline but is prescribed only for patient with parkinson's disease.

    Since January or February.


    SWIM remembers the effect but it was only at the start of the treatment.

    Bupropion and ssri are the drugs being used in treatment of meth addiction, sometimes with good results.

    How much time can it take to fully naturalize from bupropion overstimulation? Will it work after using dimethylaminorex for some time?

    It is not a medication but powerful drug, probably the strongest existing stimulant, about 5 times stronger than meth. SWIM is going to use as a drug, not medication to let him live and enjoy the living. After that SWIM considers take bupropion (after the break) to combat after effect. Dimethylaminorex is very interesting substance. It is much stronger then 4-methylaminorex. It is little known drug inmany countries legal. It is more euphoric than meth but despite that, it doesn't cause the horrible comedown and hangover symptoms as meth. Neurotoxicity is probably significanlty lesser than ampetamines or MDMA. Neverthless it is considered as highly addictive.

    Notice cocaine is also only a dopamine inhibitor but it also cause more dopamine beiing thrown to the synaptic making it probably much more euphoric then amphetamine.

    There are warnings about incresed hepatotoxicity of alcohol on this medication.

    SWIM is going to do so. But it is neccesary to lower the dose slowly?

    SWIM doesn't see what SWIY means here.

    Selegiline is probably great antidepressive for amotivation and ahnedonia. SWIY is wrong. With standard doses of selegiline one hasn't to avoid these things. It concerns only MAOI-A like moclobemid responding to noradreanline and 5ht increasing, but selegiline in standard dose is only MAOI-B increasing only dopamine.

    Once again: bupopion worked definitely and is really glory and great antidepresant but now probably it does't work as it should becouse of SWIM's stupid cravings :s

    SWIM has problems with concentration since childhood. If living in US, SWIM probably could get prescribed adderal, dexedrine or desoxyn :vibes: But he doesn't :(
     
  9. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,452
    Female from U.S.A.
    No, and no, several tricyclics and MAOIs work on dopamine. And selegiline is indeed used for depression, though as I said, usually as a last resort. Maybe before ECT.

    Citation needed. Bupropion's used for nicotine addiction, but that doesn't make it a ganglionic blocker.

    Dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

    Everybody and their grandmother knows about the increased risk of seizures bupropion causes. Taking more than the recommended dose is just asking for trouble. And combining it with other drugs that can decrease the seizure threshold, plus abusing alcohol and benzos which ALSO screw with your seizure threshold....only a matter of time before you black out and piss yourself. Sounds like fun, eh?

    I never said selegiline wasn't an excellent antidepressant. And yes, some people get away with moderate amounts of tyramine, especially with the transdermal patch. But the risk of a hypertensive crisis makes it a third-line treatment. This is not a benign side effect. I'm not familiar with dimethylaminorex but I'm willing to bet combining it with selegiline isn't a good idea. Just an educated guess.

    swiy could....stop abusing it so it could work again, maybe....?

    Not sure where you got this misconception.
     
  10. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    First of all, SWIM doesn't live in US! Tricyclic is shit and nonslelective MAOI is probably too. Selegiline is never being prescribed for depression in SWIM's country, unless related to parkinons's disease. SWIM may get it only through illegal chanells, though it's not simple.

    Bupropion is mainly used fod nicotine addiction but it also helps combat other addictions. Research on animals addicted to morphine shows to lesses amdinisitration frequency. SWIM has seen a program concerning meth epidemic in US. There was an interview with a woman addicted to meth. After about half year detoxification and treatment with prozac and bupropion she was in amazingly good state and helps combat the meth epidemic informing others about history of her addiction, homelesness and helping others get strong to throw out the meth.

    SWIM finds bupropion as somewhat as classic stimulant. The real risk for seizure starts in dose about 3-4 grams. It is about one pack! SWIM's record was probably about 13 tablets. Every stimulant can seizure and it's now something amazing. SWIM has combined high dose of brupro with prozac, benzo, tramadol , alcohol at one time and nothing gone wrong! The story with seizure from bupro is a little overkill!

    Of course.

    While SWIY gets too much selegiline it works as MAOI-A and then there is a risk of tyramine effect indeed.

    Currently SWIM doesn't have even acces to selegiline. Dimethylaminorex is probably the most powerful existing stimulant and there's no need to combine it with anything, especially with selegiline :)

    SWIM abuses it seldom, not daly, episodically - but it is enough.... Yes it is the way SWIM intends to go. Why SWIY writes "maybe"? Is it possible it never works again? how long can take the break in treatment?

    SWIM has read it is not hard in US to get precribed adderal, especially for adhd what one can simulate having known symptoms. Probably desoxyn is other matter but adderal rather isn't found so hardcore :)
     
  11. wespawloski

    wespawloski Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    120
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    354
    27 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    "SWIM finds bupropion as somewhat as classic stimulant. The real risk for seizure starts in dose about 3-4 grams." When SWIM first started Bupropion, he read that 1.2 was the seizure risk .

    Wellbutrine is mainly dopaminergic, but also one-half potency toward norepinephrine.

    "SWIM has read it is not hard in US to get precribed adderal, especially for adhd what one can simulate having known symptoms. Probably desoxyn is other matter but adderal rather isn't found so hardcore :)"

    Adderall is easy to get, desonyx is another matter indeed. SWIM's very very liberal drug-dispensing psichiatrist would never go that far... and he prescribed SWIM 210mg vyvanse (lisdexamphetamine).

    A few months is a little soon for fluoxetine to loose its effectiveness, but it could just mean SWIY was given too little of a dose :/ The wellbutrine coupling would cause interesting changes that would have to be balanced, that could be a logical answer.

    SWIM would not recommend a MAOI. He has spent his time abusing syrian rue which contains Harmal (a temporary MAOI-A), and it can really lure oneself into scary situations.
     
  12. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    SWIM stresses that MAOI-A is different matter than MAOI-B like selegiline.
     
  13. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,452
    Female from U.S.A.
    From Clinical Pharmacology:
    So....0.5 x 10 = 5% risk. Is bupropion really worth it? I can understand someone taking that risk with cocaine...:p but if bupropion works well for someone as an antidepressant at normal doses, well, some people search their entire lives for an antidepressant that works. I was prescribed bupropion and it didn't work for me. So I have to keep looking. I can tell you right now if I ever find a good one that makes me happy without making me gain weight just by looking at food, no way in hell I'm going to ruin it by abusing it to a point at which it no longer works.

    ...
    bupropion: lowers seizure threshold.
    fluoxetine: lowers very slightly
    benzos: raise
    tramadol: lowers
    alcohol: raises
    :eek:

    I'll just leave it at this: I can't strongly suggest enough that this swiy stop abusing bupropion. I realise this is Drugs Forum, and someone will always be playing around with drugs, but this is just asking for trouble.
     
  14. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    Except irritating comedown, incresed blood pressure, feeling of bewildering and plastered nose SWIM has never had any trouble :D

    Definitely, bupro it's not worth that risk and the fucking comedown. SWIM uses bupro only as alternative to other stimulants.
     
  15. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    IS it possible to develope tolerance also for ssri combining it with amph from time to time?
     
  16. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,097
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,452
    Female from U.S.A.
    I'm guessing you mean amphetamines, and you can develop tolerance to both classes independently of each other.

    SWIY should probably lay off all drugs except prescribed ones, and use the prescribed ones as prescribed.
     
  17. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    REgular amphetamine acts on serotonine marginally, that's why it's not too obvius form SWIM :)
     
  18. Roads

    Roads Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    550
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    413
    29 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    SWIM knows an occassionally depressed, self-medicating, college aged girl who one evening found herself supply-dry and desperate for a high. SWIM is her friend and was at her house when she stole a few 300mg pills of bupropion from her moms cabinet, snorted around 900mgs within a half hour or so, burned the hell out of her nasal cavity, got a good stimulant-esque buzz, remarked how well she felt, and then had a Grand Mal seizure while eating a turkey sandwich for lunch; a seizure that happened in front of her parents, and SWIM himself.

    She received an unconcious ambulance ride, awoke in a hospital, spent many days there, and suffered the awkwardness as her traumatized family discovered she'd been abusing their pharms, weed, and sometimes cocaine. She seemed fine, but explained to SWIM that doctors believe she suffered some minor brain damage. More importantly, her family practically disowned her, ostracized her from their family unit and has dumped her into a rehab center. SWIM once visited and his rehabbed friend read SWIM a letter written by her little sister begging her not to do drugs anymore. SWIM has not heard from her in the many moons. SWIM found that her parents do not like SWIM and have prevented contact to their daughter. SWIM feels badly, but suspects she is still locked up in rehab.

    SWIM thus advises against the recreational, especially insufflated, use of Bupropion. SWIM recommends a 2-3 week-ish break from Bupropion if SWIY absolutely must snort it to get high. SWIY should at least try the medication orally at its intended therapeutic dosage to see if it works for his depression before abusing it again. SWIM must also warn against the permanent cell damage and probably noticeable irritation that the drug is likely causing to the tissue in SWIY's sinuses and nostril cavity.


    note: a Grand mal seizure is a seizure that effects the ENTIRE brain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2009
  19. aaa5

    aaa5 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    38
    Male from Czech Republic
    Why they find seizure as brain damage symptom?? SWIM's never had a seizure.
     
  20. Roads

    Roads Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    550
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    413
    29 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    No. The seizure was induced by the drug. SWIM can verify that this individual had no known history of seizures before she snorted bupropion. The seizure was classified as one that effects the entire brain, caused a lengthy loss of consciousness and caused damage to the brain at some point during it. Seizures don't always do that because they are usually brief, and/or concentrated in small parts of the brain; usually in people who suffer from epilepsy. They have been known to cause brain cells to die though.

    Honestly, SWIM can't imagine brain cells not dying after seeing the individual lose control of her body, totally lose functioning consciousness for atleast an hour, and basically stop breathing properly; not to mention having her brain experience such a jarring and violent biological anomaly. SWIM tries to forget the image.

    Just because SWIY has not had a seizure from taking large doses of bupropion does not mean that it can't happen. It is on the warning label after all.