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Effects - Cacti Comparison: San Pedro vs. Peruvian Torch

Discussion in 'Peyote & San Pedro' started by Lady Codone, May 29, 2010.

  1. Lady Codone

    Lady Codone Titanium Member

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    SWIM is itching to embark on another cactus journey, but is having some trouble deciding WHICH cactus to choose! Her options are San Pedro and Peruvian Torch.

    SWIM has read that different cacti produce slightly different effects due to the mixtures of alkaloids in each. Could any experienced SWIMmers give SWIM an idea of which better fits her needs/desires?

    SWIM wants:

    *A more stimulating, "up" experience. Psychedelics have given her feelings of extreme fatigue/lethargy in the past, which she hates. SWIM prefers energy :)

    *Less negative body load, i.e. pain, heaviness in the limbs, etc. Psychs tend to give SWIM unpleasant to painful sensations throughout her body that take away from the positive effects of the trip. She doesn't like this.

    *Less nausea. She hasn't had much problem with nausea in the past, but is very nervous about it all the same.

    That's basically it. She just wants to get the "purest" mescaline experience for her buck without all the extra alkaloids getting in the way. For those who have tried both cacti (and others?), which did you prefer in terms of effects/side effects? Preparation, cost and other factors are not important to her in this situation.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. BBGONE

    BBGONE Newbie

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    SWIM tried pachanoi (fresh) and he dont want to invest in peruvian torch, just because he finds Pedro very reliable and good.
    And what he reads about P. torches often dissapoints him because they are unreliable. With pachanoi is really near impossible tro overdose, and it contains little alkaloids besides mescaline. And can after harvest be potentiating by storing cuttings for some time in dark and warm place (for 2 weeks)
    Swim can give one good report on the situation with peruvian torches on the market and their potency (taken from another forum).

    Anyway, KK242 can actually turn out to be a variety of things. But most commonly, it appears to be T. Cuzcoensis. You'd have better luck looking that one up. Join ******* forum, and read the pinned topics in the cactus section by MS Smith, and search by his name if you'd prefer. He goes into good detail about how he believes the cactus commonly sold as Peruvianus (generally kk242) is cuzcoensis, and he's given dozens of examples and comparisons between it and the macrogonus species, which appear to be the source for the dry stuff, as you can clearly see on XXXX's page, and one other. There are also a number of 'bunk' experience reports with cuzcoensis. Another member in the chemistry section did an extraction of cuzcoensis material, only to be disappointed.

    It's very rare that I come across a good trip report with live peruvianus. It's generally something along the lines of, "I got a peruvian torch because I read on erowid that it's stronger. Nothing happened." People get thrown off because there are certainly some dry "torch" experience reports in which people are blown away.


    P.S.-SWIM does not think that cacti can satisfy all SWIY requirements.
    But Nausea can be prevented with antiemetics
    Aside from it, they are positive.
    From Shulgin work:
    In about an hour a transient headache developed, followed by nausea of short duration, without vomiting, This latter symptom was successfully avoided by pretreatment of the subject (30 min) with 50 mg Dramamine
    Cannabinoids (marijuana) also prevent nausea (and used medically fot this purpous).

    But SWIM knows substance that is close to SWIY requirement, it is diethyltriptamine. It is not naturally occuring (dont confuse it with DMT), and of course it is not from cacties.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2012
  3. Lady Codone

    Lady Codone Titanium Member

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    Very helpful! Thank you!

    Pedro is the only cactus SWIM has tried, and she's gotten very mixed results. Her best experience was with the biggest piece she's ever taken. Very nice. The last time she tripped, she had lots of unpleasant body sensations (read: pain) in what felt like her kidneys and was SUPER tired for most of it, so much that she went to sleep during part of the trip. Swim still doesn't know what the dif was...same setting, ingestion method and everything.

    But yeah, SWIM will probably go with S.P. because she has experience w/ it. And it's cheaper. She uses ginger and peppermint tea for the nausea and has never had any but has heard horrific reports of all-day vomit fests on cacti. Intense stimulation is not necessary, I just included that after hearing lots about San Pedro having stimulating effects on people and I prefer "up" to "down".

    And what is this diethyltriptamine SWIY speaks of? Very intriguing. SWIM will look into it :D
     
  4. BBGONE

    BBGONE Newbie

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    diethyltriptamine is stimulating psychodelic.

    It has almost no visuals, but greatly enhances mood.
    It is rare and it is produced by some individuals by alkylating triptamine at room temp. with diethylsulfate in ordinary alkohol and addition of K2CO3 (as a base).
    At erowid there are some reports on its use.

    Dimethyltriptamine altogether different from it in that it produces intense visuals.
    SWIM also has one article on differences between psylocibine and diethyltriptamine.
    In conclusion, psylocibine action is mostly "down" action, and diethyltriptamine feels like a mixture of low dose of LSD and amphetamine.

    Mescaline is also not stimulating stuff, and people can react on the same substance differently.
    With cacty SWIM prefer tea, because he does not like to consume plant matter (solids), they are not good to stomach.
    And SWIM knows for sure (found in japan article on DF) that green outer layer the most potent,
    and to reduce intake all the substances in cacties it is best to prepare dry skins (drying at 70-80 C), then
    weighting dry skins (20-40 g is very good -- depends on potency) and make tea from them (made in distilled water).
    It diminishes the intake of salts that are in cacties (potassium salts and maybe they contain something else), and can not hurt the kidneys.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2012
  5. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    Does anyone have anecdotal or empirical results regarding a comparison of the two; in terms of mescaline content and potency by weight?
     
  6. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Ott discusses the general potency of various mescaline containing cacti in Pharmacotheon. I think I remember reading that Ott indicated that the potency of mescaline decreased with the following trend: Peyote > Peruvian Torch > San pedro.
     
  7. BBGONE

    BBGONE Newbie

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    SWIM read one article on testing San Pedro dried chips for mescaline content
    (green outer layer).
    Usual content of mescaline was found to be between 1,1-2,1 % of dried weight. But some samples did not contain mescaline (usually those were prepared from not green outer layer).
    Erowid says that Peruvian Torch is thicker than San Pedro and
    the amount in inches can be less than that of San Pedro.

    And there is SWIM theory that cacties (cuttings) can be potentiated by storing them before the use in warm and dark place (from 2 to 4 week).
    SWIM thinks that it results from the fact that in nature, tall cacties often break apart and fall to the ground, and for protection of broken parts from worms and insects, cacties (their broken parts) start to produce more mescaline.
    They can produce it even in the dark if they have enough nutrients in their tissue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2012
  8. sadskills1987

    sadskills1987 Silver Member

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    swim has had more positive experiences with dried pieces of san pedro than live cuttings and/or dry powder of peruvian torch
     
  9. veritas.socal

    veritas.socal Silver Member

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    swim has never ordered dried powder, only used flesh from fresh plants, and has never got peruvian torch(Trichocereus peruvianus), only achuma(T.bridgesii) and san pedro(T.pachanoi).
    swim will say his experience was san pedro was milder and achuma was wilder.
    san pedro gave little to no nausea, but milder effects. the bridgesii definitely blessed swim with time in the bathroom, horrendous vomiting, diahrea(or however you spell it)
    super dry heaves.
    over the next two months, starting last night,swim plans on trying 3 extaction methods on three species(9 total) using only dried skin/outter flesh, then bioassaying one at a time, over the course of a month or three. and will report to all swimmers...any tips welcome..
    swim cut bridgesii cuttings last night, approx 4.5ft, swim is cutting up, in a few minutes, befrore work. how long should swim dry them?(not w oven)
    peace
     
  10. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Swims friends personal experience with san pedro only is that it was a stimulating yet euphoric experience. It was mild cuz of the small dose he took but he remembers everything just feeling "right".

    He dosed at 10-11am in the morning and couldnt go to sleep til 2-3 am the next day. But never at any time did he feel "sped out" or anything. Felt just like he couldnt go to sleep.

    As for the experience itself. Doesnt remember much other than at one point, the music in car was going along with everything outside. Every drum beat, every start of the chorus, every big solo. It seemed like all the music just went to what was going on outside with the cars passing by and the movements of the car swim was in. It felt extremely pleasurable, but definitely different from the regular tryptamine psychedelic headspace.

    With mescaline its almost like everything thats getting altered feels real, where as with tryptamines. Its quite obvious what the alterations are as they are definitely far from norm. Hard to explain, it just seemed less artificial.

    Peace