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Smoking - can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

Discussion in 'Heroin' started by Sniffin Sunshine, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. Sniffin Sunshine

    Sniffin Sunshine Newbie

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    sunshine is very sorry if this topic has been discussed, but she literally spent an hour UTFSE and could not find the answer to her specific question anywhere.

    sunshine would like to attempt to taper herself off of the needle. Before she started shooting, she always sniffed her heroin, and has never smoked it before, but she believes after doing some research that smoking may be a more effective way to get off the needle than sniffing. she understands the concept of chasing and all that
    basically her question is:
    can the brown powder h4 heroin found in the USA be smoked? and if so, are there any special preperations neccesary, or can sunshine just put a bit on the foil and have at it? she really doent want to waste it trying to smoke it if it will not be effective.. as trying to get off the needle is hard enough as it is!

    once again, sunshine is sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but she has never met a smoker where she is from and could not find relevant info via search.
     
  2. chillinwill

    chillinwill Newbie

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    Here are some threads that might have help you. There might be some information in a few of these threads that might be of assistance.


    Smoking H4 in a joint

    Questions about smoking heroin!!

    snorting vs smoking

    How to Properly Smoke Heroin

    Advice for a heroin novice

    Completly new to heroin, lots of questions

    Different ways to smoke heroin

    Here is an answer I found in the Questions about smoking heroin!! thread:

    Base heroin or heroin #3 or black tar heroin the is most preferred kind of heroin to have for smoking. Heroin #4 is since it is a salt is more efficient to be used by insufflation, IV, or anally. Heroin #4 probably can be smoked and will still be effective, but it won't run the same way as heroin #3 and more than likely isn't as effective as other routes of administration such as insufflation. So in essence, Heroin #4 is the salt form, typically the hydrochloride, which is soluble in water and has a high Melting Point and Boiling Point. This is not good for smoking, as the Boiling Point is too high, but can be dissolved in water for injection or readily available for insufflation.

    There are two ways to tackle the smoking factor if one wanted to smoke this fully processed salt form. One way is to smoke it just like one would with opium, with an indirect flame and very carefully. Depending on the purity of the substance in question will depend on how well this works. Another way is by adding a small amount of water and putting that water into a "meth" or "ice" style pipe. This will help to vaporize the alkaloid since it is suspended in water. The problem with this is what one is also inhailing water vapor also. (Water on the lungs etc).
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
  3. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

    To Smoke H.4 a Caffeine-Pill can be very helpful!
    Otherwise for untrained People it`s very hard to smoke it because the lung will not accept this.
     
  4. chillinwill

    chillinwill Newbie

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    Re: AW: can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

    Why would a caffeine pill be needed and why is it hard on the lungs?
     
  5. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

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    Re: AW: can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

    Swim isn't 100% on this, but is pretty sure that caffeine is often added to the H3 we get in Europe, as it helps the heroin run better and vapourise more controllably on foil.

    Don't know if it would have the same effect if used with the different substance of heroin salt though.

    Personally, swim is pretty certain that with H4, the most effective ROA's, and subsequently the one's that most people use, are injecting and insufflating.
    It's water-soluble, and therefore, these are ROA's that the drug is designed for.

    Swim would say your only real option is to switch from IVing to snorting, or rectal-(swim's been informed that this can provide a bit of a rush, and has a greater bio-availabilty than insufflation!).
     
  6. Helene

    Helene Gold Member

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    Not sure about how relevant this is, but quite a few years ago, before swim started IV-ing, back when she was still smoking gear, a batch of rather frazzley, almost unsmokable heroin was around. It was okay-ish gear, nothing too appalling, and so was still worth trying to smoke. Someone came up with the solution of putting a very thin layer of butter on the foil first, and then running the gear on top of it. Surprisingly, this actually seemed to work. Dunno how, maybe the oil of the butter somehow combines with the heroin, thus facilitating running? Regardless, it worked, and enabled the heroin to run smoothly down the foil without frazzling and burning up. Has anyone else heard of this?

    Bear in mind that this was H3, as swim is in the UK, so no idea if this would work with H4, but it might be worth a try, with a small amount of gear?

    H
     
  7. mickey_bee

    mickey_bee Gold Member

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    Yeah this is a pretty common way of making your gear go further when smoking it. As such, it's mainly used by people in prison so they can get more lines out of the morsel of overpriced smack they get.
     
  8. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: Re: AW: can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

    Hai so desu, the Caffeine help a lot,
    H.4 is very strong and the first Smoke is unbearable,
    like smoking pure Acid.
    The Lung is not stupid or a lifeless Organ, it will shut down
    and the Smoke pressed out! (by a chocking cough)

    The Cat never smoked the first line because her lung is already bad :s
    She was thinking about to write it or not but the Caffeine in this case help to prevent the Lungs and is a "Harm Reduction" Tip,
    first burn the Caffeine until it is liquid than add the Heroin and let it float!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2009
  9. BrownStreakRailroad

    BrownStreakRailroad Silver Member

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    well when SWIM smoked H#4 in australia it did run but a bag only ran a few lines as the salt just burned up on the foil, however he did not find it hard on the lungs......no effect tho, and he knows it was the stuff as the ozzie guys who got it for him used only a plastic spoon to 'cook' up on and their eyes were pinned to the max and they were wondering why SWIM thought it was shit!!!. H#3 we get in EU is cut with caffiene, as what could be considered 'pure' H#3 is only about 70% diacetylmorphine, it serves to lower the melting point of the heroin and so will run for longer taking longer to burn up, i think also the butter serves the same purpose and butter is almost always used in british prisons to make the poxy bags go further. From what SWIM has read on this forum, he has gathered if someone were to want to smoke H#4, white salt form heroin, mixing it with caffiene will do the trick....i think crudely about 1/2 to a 1/3 caffiene HCL to the amount of gear....
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2009
  10. Sickpeache

    Sickpeache Silver Member

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    swim has also been thinking about trying to get off the pin by switching to smoking as well. All thats around here is H4, so how does one prepare a caffiene pill to smoke H4? Do swiy just crush it up&mix it with the H powder? Then just throw a bit on foil or do swiy add a little water to it and smear in on foil? I think swim read somewhere to crush up and melt caffeine pill on foil then smear that around and then run the h4 on the foil over the caffeine. Has anyswiy heard that?

    Also, about the butter, does that work with h4 too? Can swiy mix the dope with a little butter then smear out a line of H/butter paste on the foil & run the lighter along that?

    Sounds like such a waste when one is used to getting 100% of the dope in them...but swim really wants to try getting off the needle. And insullfation seems to use SO much.
     
  11. Motorfreak231

    Motorfreak231 Silver Member

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    SWIM would like to know if theres an ACTUAL way to ''Chase the dragon" using Heroin #4.... What SWIM in trying to see, is if theres a way to "freebase" Heroin #4 in a sense. Such as one does with Cocaine..


    All the pervious methods might make it run better and whatnot, but the fact is, Heroin #4 is still in hydrochloride (salt) form, thus the plain act of heating it to the point of vaporization still destroys the active alkali present in the Heroin. SWIM would imagine there is a way to revert Heroin #4 back into Heroin #3, but it seems it has never been discussed, to SWIM's knowledge.


    Being that there exsists Heroin #'s 1 through 4, there has got to be a way to alter Heroin #4 into any of thge othger forms. Correct SWIM if he is wrong.


    So, in conclusion, if any SWIMmers are knowledgeable in the field of chemistry, could SWIY enlighten SWIM on if this is possible/feasable/ within reach of the "average Joe"??


    Also, if this is possible, and reasonable to do, it could help those SWIMmers who want to get away from the Missle (syringe), being an alternate ROA. Or, of course, those who have run out of veins to use safely (SAFELY being the key word. Femoral/Neck/etc veins are dangerous to use!!! SWIM can't stress this enough)
    It is known (while not IMPOSSIBLE) that Heroin users never go back to less immeadiate ROA such as snorting, but smoking seems to be the next best things in terms of bioavailability and onset time.




    -MF231
     
  12. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

    No One can bring H.4 back to H.3 or 2.
    it`s a law of Spagyrik/ Alchemie!
     
  13. Motorfreak231

    Motorfreak231 Silver Member

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    BINGO!! Thats the answer SWIM was looking for. SWIM thought it had to be possible... but apparantly not so!! Bummer!


    Thanks for the clarification!!



    -MF231
     
  14. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    Re: AW: can H4 heroin be smoked? is special prep needed?

    It can't be 'freebased', a la cocaine to crack?

    Oh well. It's definitely a good thought, though I would assume that if it were possible, some enterprising junkie would have figured it out & it would have hit the internet by now.

    ~Kailey
     
  15. MadOne

    MadOne Mercury Member

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    Also another thing used in prison to make h no.3 run better is cod liver oil this seemed better than butter how healthy it is for you I don't know !!!! but im sure there is a way to freebase heroin number 4 im not sure what is used to freebase it though. A hard look on here will provide the answer !!! im sure it will.
     
  16. tilopa

    tilopa Silver Member

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    I've been looking long and hard and I have not found the answer. It is clear that the properties of H are very different from cocaine so the method for freebasing coke does not work for H. But I cannot believe there is not a method that will at least lower the melting point of H4 salt so that it can vape before it burns up.

    My idea is to mix a little baking soda with the H4, then add a little coconut oil to it. The reason for the baking soda is that it raises the ph, and thus lowers the melting point (though I'm making a big assumption here), I don't like the idea of using caffeine for this because I hate the caffeine affect. The purpose of the coconut oil is to lower the melting, boiling point. Coconut oil has a lower MP that most oils, including butter, so it will vaporize at a lower temp.

    H4 is very soluble in water, and at higher temperature it is soluble in oil.

    Just a half cocked theory but I'm wondering/hoping you smart chemist types can shed some light on this subject.