Oral use - Can Ketamine be taken Sublingually?

Discussion in 'Ketamine' started by Fantasian, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    Couldnt find this on the search engine so thought i'd ask it here. Just a quick question..

    Can Ketamine be taken via the Sublingual route? (commonly known as gumming)

    I know it can be taken IV, IM, Orally and Intranasaly. The snorting option suggests that it will work on any mucus membrane however im not sure.

    Thanks for offering the clarity
     
  2. ThirdEyeFloond

    ThirdEyeFloond Platinum Member & Advisor

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    my assumes it should be absorbed fine sublingualy because it is highly water soluble (correct SWIM if he's wrong), but considering the rather large amount of powder or liquid that should be absorbed and the disgusting taste of all amines I don't think it's a administration route many people choose.
     
  3. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor

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    This is an interesting question, as one would think that sublingual absorption would prevent most of the Ketamine from being converted into Norketamine.
     
  4. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    After testing it appears that ketamine is effective Sublingually however the taste puts most users off. It was difficult not to vomit when SWIF used this method.
     
  5. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor

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    How exactly did swif attempt to use the sublingual method? More details would be appreciated.
     
  6. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    How much did SWIF use sublingually? SWIM can imagine that the taste must have been vile.
     
  7. arman

    arman Titanium Member

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    I used ketamine nasally many times and few times orally (dissolved in water). From SWIM's K snorting experience he knows that taste is very bad even in the back of throat, it even cause a strong nausea when ketamine drips 5 mins after snorting, also the ketamine in water (not in some juice or something) tastes really bad, after consuming it SWIM wrote in his trip report paper that "shit should taste much better than K".

    So SWIM think sublingual K to be at least practically impossible route for ketamine (specially if using high doses for k-hole). Maybe sublingual route was practical if K was potent enough to has its effects with only 10-15mg of it in body.

    I am interested in testing K sublingually cause by this route K will be able to reach blood in matter of minutes without any need for needles and injection (although, ISWIMHO IMing is both fun and safe).

    BTW, is there anyway to make some drug (or chemical) taste better? SWIM means, for example mixing something with K to hide its bitter taste? or maybe somehow disable or weaken the body's taste sense for a few minutes while keeping K under [SIZE=-1]tongue?
     
  8. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    SWIF was using similar dosages to nasal dosages as he figured that the effects would be similar. ON first attempt having that amount of ketamine power on SWIFs' gums was unbearable and he was not able to continue very effectively. SWIF found with a little trial and error that lemon juice can help to hide the strong taste however ultimately he still found this too difficult. He was able to sucessfully take Ketamine sublingually when he used lidocaine ointment on his gums and tongue. The lidocaine itself tastes not too bad and once it's anesthetic effects were present one could hardly tell the ketamine had been placed into the gums. Onset was fast, felt faster than snorting but may have just been placebo.

    Ketamine was placed on entirely lower gums where lidocaine ointment was applied without difficulty.

    On a side note SWIF would say waking up the following morning with Ket mouth wasnt pleasant.
     
  9. Euphoric

    Euphoric Platinum Member

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    Pain Medicine
    Volume 7 Issue 5, Pages 469 - 469

    Published Online: 27 Sep 2006

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118591652/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  10. Nattyb

    Nattyb Newbie

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    i agree I dont think it would be a very potent way to use K, used nose or muscle in past. It been 4ever though saw the thread on K and had 2 read some. Its a thing of the past where i stay, but used to love ketaset ketaved ketaject, was mostly what was around. also used 2 use anasket and ketalin when had went to mexico. Its just a vivid memory now had alot of reoccuring holes in the past, ill start a thread on that.
     
  11. girlygrrl

    girlygrrl Newbie

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    I've heard about people doing this for meph but not for ketamine. I suppose it would probably work but may not be the best administration route. I heard that it doesn't work well taken orally (such as encapsulated), but sublingual shouldn't be terribly different of an experience from insuffulated at least for most drugs. Just one should be aware that this method can leave one's mouth and gums feeling sore, but if one is getting nosebleeds perhaps it is a good alternative.
     
  12. _Dante_

    _Dante_ Silver Member

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    Very useful thread as AFOAF is having to look for other ways to use ketamine since they can no longer snort, and doesn't want to use IM or IV.

    Has anyone had some further experiences of this to offer some more advice?

    Thank you.
     
  13. funkymunkey

    funkymunkey Newbie

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    You shouldn't gum ket just like you shouldnt gum proper sticky base ( speed ) it tastes extremely rank ( i love the taste of the k drop down my throat but not by gumming it ) and it also causes ulcers if you do it to excess same as with speed. After a heavy weekend if you cant sniff anymore which happens to us all after caining it then you could put some under your tongue with fruit juice as it dissolves really quick straight into the main veins under the tongue but it still tastes ruff so add fruit juice , it disolves much quicker under tongue because the veins are much bigger and skin surface is thinner than the inside of lips/gum!
     
    1. 3/5,
      Useful advice on a largely uncovered subject. Much appreciated.
      Aug 3, 2011
  14. _Dante_

    _Dante_ Silver Member

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    Interesting info funkymunkey. What kind of dosage do you think this would work at?

    How long does it take to come on? As quick as snorting?

    Does anyone else have any experience at taking it under the tongue?
     
  15. funkymunkey

    funkymunkey Newbie

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    i only do this method when ive done maybe over a 10 g's in a short space of time and i wouldnt IV or IM ket so the only other way is under the tongue i have a ridiculous tolerance to k so i would take about half a g under the tongue but you dont seem to get the kinda rush buzz that you do by snorting it the best way is snorting it but if your nose dont want no more as usually happens after caining it and a hot drink, pot noodle or steam wot realease the clogged up k and blocked sinisus for a line then under the tongue is garaunteed to enter your blood stream pretty quick and with minimal damage ie ulcers etc but wouldnt advise it in a regular basis as your mouth is sensitive and the skin under your tongue is really thin so just be careful
     
  16. Descartesx

    Descartesx Silver Member

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    My fox would advise caution with this method. Swallowing any ketamine will convert it to nor-ketamine in the digestive track which is useless psychoactively and is only good as an anaethetic- numbing the entire body. Of course not all ketamine will be absorbed and some will be swallowed (bad idea.)
     
  17. _Dante_

    _Dante_ Silver Member

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    Perhaps spitting out remaining fluids in the mouth may be one way to try and prevent any swallowing?

    And yes, I agree, it seems like a method not to be done frequently as the area is sensitive. That said, so is the lining of the nose!
     
  18. OccularFantasm

    OccularFantasm Silver Member

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    When SWIM mixes ketamine with some water or small amount of coffee, and even when I am just licking the spoon the K was mixed on, SWIM tries to keep as much under my tongue as possible. SWIM also will swish the solution around in my mouth after letting it sit to try to let any remaining K to sublingually dissolve. Even so, SWIM still found the effects to be much more analgesic and sedating than if taken IV or IM. I had suspected that it may have been due to increased norketamine levels, but was never sure.

    Isn't the P-450 liver enzyme responsible for the breakdown of ketamine into norketamine? If so might grapefruit or grapefruit juice help to prevent some of the ketamine's conversion into norketamine after oral ingestion, if taken prior to administration. When I tried this experimentally, the effects of ketamine took a significantly longer time to reach a full baseline [~24 - 48 hours]. When I used IV alone baseline was more like 1-3 hours. SWIM only tried oral administration with grapefruit juice, and as such has no control group to compare the return to baseline to. Even so it seems extended from what it would be without it. Any thoughts?

    I also have concern about ketamine being in the mouth. I have read ketamine has a very low PH (~3), and as such wonders about its direct effects with teeth. I know calcium is fairly reactive, however calcium fluoride is fairy stable. That said SWIM still doesn't know enough on the subject to come to a well-founded conclusion.
     
  19. Mohamedbear

    Mohamedbear Silver Member

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    I have always taken any drug that can be insuffated either sublingually or orally if effects are better (mdma, ect) because your nose is so delicate and is mean't to smell sensitive things where as your mouth and stomach have to put up with far more corosive things like fizzy drinks and sugar and beer ect.. and your stomach acids will disolve pretty much anything.

    You don't eat with your nose.. lol