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Can Loperamide help with going cold turkey off both Methadone and Oxycodone?

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by Lippmannk1, Feb 8, 2011.

  1. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1 Newbie

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    Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    SWIM stopped 90% of his withdrawal symptoms and breezed through the withdrawal stage like it was a joke. He would like to tell you his experience:



    Background:


    SWIM was recently put on heavy doses of oxycodone for a surgery and was maintained on doses of 60mg oxycodone for several months. His doctor decided it was time for him to stop taking the oxycodone, and refused to write him any prescriptions.

    He was forced into complete and unexpected abstinence. Of course, this was going to cause serious withdrawal problems for him.

    Being in the field of medicine, SWIM knew and understood the working of many various pharmaceuticals and chemicals on the shelves of today's pharmacies and supermarkets. He knew that Loperamide, (otherwise known as Immodium), is actually a close cousin of fentanyl and lies well-within the opiate category of medications.


    ------------




    What loperamide is and how it works:


    Loperamide is an anti-diarrheal OTC (over the counter) medication. Opiates give constipation, and because loperamide is an opiate that won't get you high, it is sold OTC to relieve the runs.

    Loperamide is an opiate whos chemical structure is too big to cross something called the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB). Morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl, heroin, and other opiates easily cross the BBB to activate pleasure receptors in the brain. There are also other opiate receptors located throughout the body, but they are not protected by a barrier like the BBB. Because Loperamide does NOT cross the BBB, it will not get you high. HOWEVER, Loperamide WILL and DOES work on the other opiate receptors located throughout the body.

    When a person withdrawals off opiates, the Central Nervous System is thrown into chaos due to the absence of the opiate. Because loperamide can still activate the opiate receptors not protected by the BBB, it has the potential to alleviate almost all withdrawals without continuing an addiction or getting a person high.

    -------------




    SWIM's experience:


    Knowing that Loperamide is an opiate, SWIM went to the nearest grocery store pharmacy and bought a bottle of 48 2mg generic loperamide tablets. SWIM waited until he was in full withdrawal (sweats, nausea, shakes, irritability, panic attacks, etc...) and SWIM took 20 of the 2mg pills. This totals to 40mg of loperamide. 30 minutes after consuming the 40mg of loperamide, 90% of the withdrawals were COMPLETELY GONE.

    You heard me right. 90% of swim's withdrawals were GONE. Swim felt normal, and even got a restful nights sleep. Swim was able to dodge almost all of the withdrawals, and the withdrawal process was easy as pie. No suffering, and very few complications.

    Swim needed to re-dose 6 times over the course of three days to abate all withdrawals. This equates to 20 pills every 12 hours.


    Side effects noted: Cotton mouth, fatigue, some stomach cramps, and slight nausea. Same constipation as while on oxycodone.

    NOTE: SWIM found out not to use the gel-caps. They gave him severe stomach pain where the pill form did not.

    Total cost of opiate- withdrawal abatement: $15.00 in loperamide pills.


    Other notes: No, SWIM did NOT have any problems crapping. In fact, he had less constipation than he did on the oxycodone. Loperamide works on the intestinal tract to stop the runs just like other opiates do. There is no difference in action between the constipation of loperamide and the constipation of other opiates. The only major issue SWIM had was when he took the gel-cap formulation (which made him sick and gave him stomach pains). Cotton mouth (dry mouth) was the next biggest complaint.

    I thought I would drop by and post SWIM's experience. Feel free to share your thoughts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  2. Sico

    Sico Silver Member

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal

    Bob asks:

    So are you still taking any loperamide, or did you taper from that? I have heard that high doses of loperamide can have a withdrawal on its own. Did you only take it for those 3 days? Then nothing? If not, could you clarify it a little more please? If you are clean, how long?
    Sorry for the barrage of questions!
     
  3. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal

    Hello Sico. Thank you for your questions.

    SWIM only took Loperamide for a grand total of three days to help him overcome the nastiest phase of the opiate withdrawals. On the last day, he took 10mg a dose instead of the regular 20 on the days before. Swim still felt mild withdrawals after the last 10mg dose for about two days, but it was CAKE.

    SWIM has been pharmaceutical free, (albeit in some pain), for the last two weeks.

    SWIM was actually lauging on the fourth day thinking "In your FACE ****ing OPIATE WITHDRAWAL!" because it was so ridiculously easy. It was such an easy transition from 60mg oxycodone to nothing that it still seems ridiculous to SWIM just how easy it was. Was it slightly uncomfortable? Yeah. But still, SWIM maintains that he stopped AT LEAST 90% of the withdrawals.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  4. Sico

    Sico Silver Member

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal

    Bob says:

    Thanks! I've heard about this many times, but have never personally tried it this way. Hopefully, I will never know! :cool: May I ask how many days its been since you completely stopped taking loperamide? Any reason you didn't try to taper it slower? You do know I'm sure that it has longer half life than oxycodone. Loperamide is 9-14 hours.

    I would think any of the doses below could be stopped using this method as well since they have roughly the same half-life(s). Easy to figure out how much you need.
    (Why did you choose 20x2mg (40mg)? Just curious. )

    So you took 40mg every 12 hours for 2 days. 80mg a day x 2 days.
    Then 20mg every 12 hours for last day? 40mg a day *not sure if you meant 10mg or 10 pills in your last post.

    Roughly* equivalent doses
    60 mg oxycodone
    100 mg morphine (ORAL using 1.6x oxy)
    25 mg morphine (IV)
    20 mg hydromorphone
    1000 mg codeine (1gram)

    Anyone one out there wanting to quit willing to try this? ashleigh? :laugh::vibes:

    I've done tapers so slow, that when I stopped taking it, it was too easy. Walked off amazed. But it took a few months. Practically painless though. If anyone has time, the will to taper and the desire to not be in pain, just setup a tapering schedule. Very small cuts in dosage and spaced out helps. It gives you time to adjust. But hey, I'm ALL for quick 'n easy and glad it worked for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  5. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal

    40mg was the highest dose SWIM was willing to risk. SWIM has read reports of people taking 200mg all at once, but SWIM thinks that is just downright too dangerous.

    SWIM didn't taper much from the loperamide simply because he didn't need to. He still felt a bit withdrawlish, but it was so mild he didn't need to bother with more loperamide.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  6. spicybrainsgirl

    spicybrainsgirl Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    This is so interesting. My cat is really happy to learn of this. So in your personal opinion, would it be safe to take small doses of Lope as well as Clonodine, Ibuprofin and maybe Benedryl for sleeping? My cat is looking for a (safe) cocktail to comfort him when he comes off, as tapering has never worked (and those of you that taper--you are AMAZING to my cat!). Thank you for posting this, big ups, it's so hopeful sounding.
     
  7. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    I would advise against the Clonidine unless you absolutely need it. It is a very powerful medication used for blood pressure, and it slows the Central Nervous System. That is why it works for opiates, because during opiate withdrawal your CNS is going haywire and is pushed into overdrive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  8. Dickon

    Dickon Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    ^ ^ Could you please explain yourself a bit more as to why you would advice against clonidine. Clonidine is one of the most effective things for opiate withdrawals out there and is very safe as long as you keep an eye on blood pressure. I would suggest avoiding clonidine is potentially bad advice.

    I also think for others reading this thread that loperamide is unlikely to prove as effective for you as for the OP. That's not to say don't give it a try if you feel it might help, but if I remember correctly other experiments with high dose loperamide for withdrawal described on here have not provided such positive results.

    Good luck to everyone!

    Dickon
     
  9. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    While clonidine is good for withdrawals, there are a whole host of nasty side-effects that can occur. The poser above me was talking about using a "coctail" of medications to help with the withdrawals, and mixing drugs isn't healthy. That is why I believed he should cut the clonidine out of the equation, especially if it was to be combined with large doses of loperamide.

    You say that loperamide doesn't work as well as SWIM claims, and my response is to find out for SWY's self. It was like a miracle medication for SWIM, and SWIM has also read many reports that contradict your statements that it doesn't work as well as SWIM claims.

    Many people have taken loperamide for opiate withdrawal. It works both in theory and in practice. What's more, it worked WONDERS for SWIM. SWIM had no problems getting off the oxycodone at all except for a few night sweats. The fact that it worked for SWIM is all the proof that SWIM himself needs, and he shared this information for the sole purpose of helping others who might be going through the hell of withdrawal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  10. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    Swims friend also found Clonidine to be not a good option for recovery. Not that it didnt help the situation during his withdrawals. But that it was too disorienting for swims friend to function correctly. He felt very tired and just wanted to lay motionless all day long.

    Not very condusive to getting clean in swims opinion. He needed to get up and get out. Work out and live life to the fullest again. To enjoy life again.

    But each person reacts differently this was just his experience.

    Peace
     
  11. Lippmannk1

    Lippmannk1 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    ^^^^ This.

    Lethargy on clonidine is AWFUL. I've been there and done that, and it was a miserable medication.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2011
  12. Dickon

    Dickon Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    I agree that clonidine is not the kind of thing to take when it's a case of needing get up and go, but for any serious withdrawal, the idea of getting up and going anywhere in the first few days is absurd. My cat's experience of clonidine is that it helped him quit a 200mg/day methadone habit once in 2 days (200mg,100mg,0). There is no way this could have been done without it.

    I agree that side-effects-wise, it is far from ideal, but compared to a full-on withdrawal it makes things a lot easier. It is also not something I believe should be taken for more than 7-10 days.

    As for loperamide, since I haven't taken any opiates in the last 2 or more years, I am certainly not going to be conducting any personal experiments in this lifetime. I am just going on the anecdotal evidence of people on here. If that is not representative and people are getting better effects than reported, this is a good place to put such information forward.

    One thing I can't shake off, theoretically speaking, is that loperamide in high doses is thought by some to marginally cross the brain-blood barrier and act to a degree as a standard mu-opiate agonist. If this is true, then I am curious how it is different from tapering with small doses of any other opiate.

    Or does it effects its action by means of working on the peripheral opiate receptors in the gut and possibly elsewhere? I have often wondered how some people have been able to seemingly come off opiates very easily by using buprenorphine which as a partial agonist, seems to be another "step down" way of going from something to something less potent and then off. It seems to only work as a quick taper. I just wonder if something similar might be going on with loperamide. My hunch is that something largely psychological may be going on, although I have no evidence to that effect.

    It seems like loperamide is used by a vast number of people in withdrawal with fairly good effect for diarrhoea, but that presumably is in small doses. I would be very interested to hear more stories of people using it in higher doses and gaining or not gaining a benefit.

    If it works, fantastic. I just wanted to interject a note of caution. I think we are all capable of making the mistake of generalising from a sample of one. I certainly put my hands up to that, and possibly over-value clonidine since it, and lofexidine which is similar although without such bad side-effects, have helped my cat enormously in withdrawals. I would certainly recommend them, cautions about blood-pressure notwithstanding, for anyone wanting to come off a large or even relatively small dose of opiates in a day or two.

    The thing to remember about opiate withdrawal is that it doesn't have to be pretty, it doesn't have to be painless, it doesn't have to be conform to any prescription, it just has to be gone through! Once your out the other side what could have been in terms of making easier is by the by. The mental attitude is the most important thing. If you are ready to quit a withdrawal with virtually no "comfort meds" may be easier than a withdrawal by someone who is not ready to quit where all manner of withdrawal aids are available.

    All the best to everyone

    Dickon
     
  13. Ghetto_Chem

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    Swims friend agrees with those statements.

    Clonidine is more of a quick taper way to get off and should only be used if the subject plans to be off in a week or less.

    Swims friend finds suboxone is somewhat useful in getting people off heroin and onto a substance thats only partial, so very little euphoria. It really helped him change his life for the better, but the downside is that now he cant find time to deal with the month long withdrawal. Its wierd, he mentally is done with the suboxone. But physically he is highly addicted and his body screams when he doesnt get it now. He has tried a few times to no avail, and was pretty obvious the docs never wanted him off.

    So now hes waiting til he and his father purchases a piece of property out in the woods this spring. He plans on going out there for a few months. Just ride it out, going fishing and gardening. Trying to keep his mind off it all. Probably will smoke herb but may give it up too after the worst of it is over. His dad will probably help him out and take care of him a bit if he needs. Hes gone cold turkey off 400mg of morphine and 160mg of oxycontin, so he knows how this goes.

    Lol sorry for the story but ya thats what suboxone has done for him. In once sense he thinks it saved him, in another sense he thinks there a definitely pluses to just going straight cold turkey or quick taper. He looks at suboxone as just another step in this path to getting clean.

    He may actually give loperamide a go when he tries. Thanx for the info OP.

    Peace
     
  14. Misterdobalina

    Misterdobalina Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    so i've recently been using high doses of loperamide to alleviate withdrawal symptoms and IHO it works like a charm. i came off of PST (this time, but i've been addicted to any and all opiates) and the first night i used lope my withdrawal symptoms were completely gone. i am a huge advocate of this drug and in my experiences there is NO WAY it is placebo or psychological. any dose above 20 mg when im in withdrawal will take away symptoms...it is awesome. some guy wrote a college thesis paper about using lope as an opiate withdrawal treatment and had some great insight, pretty much sold me on the idea. i'll try and find the link....
     
  15. Rightnow289

    Rightnow289 Palladium Member

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    In pacmans experience loperamide did not work like a charm for him and he was popping those mo fos constantly for nigh on a month. Whatever works for swiy I guess but it never worked for him. The fact it does not pass through the blood brain barrier suggests that it would not alleviate anxiety type symptoms. Also if this were true why would it not set SWIY back to day one of withdrawals? The best thing for withdrawals for pacman were ibuscopan for cramps, Lofexidine for shakes, anxiety and hypertension, loperamide for diarhoea (prob spelt wrong) zimovane for sleep, prochloperazine for sickness . These were all given in a detox centre but most can be bought. Pacman was coming off methadone which the syptoms lasted for over a month with sleep deprivation lasting longer
     
  16. Der Alte Kreiger

    Der Alte Kreiger Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    Another vote in favor of the Lope, wish to hell I had discovered it 40 years ago.
     
  17. Poet51

    Poet51 Silver Member

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    Poet knows a poet who is a service-connected Disabled Veteran. He suffers from chronic pain due to a leg injury. The VA sends him 180 5mg tablets of Oxycodone each month. He’s been taking the Oxy for several years now. It helps him to workout and get through the day at work, however, it also makes him drowsy and sometimes moody, and sometimes he runs out two weeks early because he takes much more than what’s prescribed. He’s suffered through some withdrawals that caused him to miss time from work. He doesn’t want to stop taking his OXY because of its benefits, however, he isn’t too fond of the withdrawals. After some on-line research (and this post), he read about Loperamide. So, Poet decided to stop Cold Turkey Thursday night. He did have some Oxy ready in case the withdrawals were too bad. Thursday he took a total of 70mg, with his last dose coming at 2100 Thursday night. He did not have to work Friday, so he slept in until 0930. He had cold sweats when he woke up and he felt fatigued and achy all over. Within in an hour, he started feeling much worse. Immediately, he took 40mg of Loperamide and some L-Tyrosine. Within 30 minutes, most of his withdrawal symptoms were gone. He felt a little tired but that was it. He took 40 more MG’s of Loperamide Friday evening and then 40 more this morning when he woke up. He has suffered virtually no withdrawal symptoms, including depression, which for him was the worse side effect from withdrawal. He has experienced no craving to take more OXY. In the beginning, Poet was skeptical, but no longer is that the case. He’s very pleased and in a few more days, plans to discontinue all Loperamide.
     
  18. clean4me234

    clean4me234 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    ive been nervous about takin more then 14mg of lope.....but even at that dose it does help me out when im hurting....im a supporter of lope
     
  19. Der Alte Kreiger

    Der Alte Kreiger Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    Read the data on Loperimide. They gave crazty high doses to the test subjects. I coast through the two weeks that my meds don't last like a breeze on about 30-40pills a day plus Xanax. Cotton mouth is the most serious side effect for me.I wash them down with Citrate of Magnesia and stay real regular.
     
  20. andylondon1981

    andylondon1981 Newbie

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    Re: Aborted All Opiate Withdrawal - Loperamide

    Hey guys, my mate has 4 and half 8mg subutex and hes planning on startin a detox from tomorrow..... He knows that he hasnt got enough subutex to a full detox/taper but reading this thread is interesting.... Do you think loperamide would help and hes from the UK, what would e have to ask for in the pharmacy????


    thanks