Opinions - Changing societal attitudes re:drugs...

Discussion in 'Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics' started by Jimmeh, May 1, 2006.

  1. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Silver Member

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    Right now in most countries drugs aren't going to be legalised any time soon, and I believe it's mainly society's fault. But I never really see any activism to change societal attitudes. Drug users mainly buy their illicit drugs illegally and keep it quiet(and maybe bitch on the internet about them being illegal).

    But what I'm thinking is they haven't banned every drug, and if a legal drug was being used responsibly and openly by a lot of people they wouldn't ban it. But you can very easily make a drug illegal by making it too available to ignorant users. Take the shroom situation in Ireland(where I live). Due to a loophole in the law, shrooms weren't illegal here. Head shops started selling them to anyone, they got blamed for some guys death and got made illegal. Of course the majority of people most likely didn't know that a "dangerous drug" was being sold openly. They weren't banned because some guy died from them, it was because his death drew attention to the fact that they were legal and easily available.

    Now legal drugs like Salvia that are being sold by head shops face the same risk of being banned, but what I'm thinking is rather than keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible why not publicise legal drugs and set up safe environments where they can be taken? For example a centre run by experienced drug users who can give advice on drugs and know the risks associated with each drug, will know the correct dosage to give people and be sitters for those taking drugs such as salvia. I mean I really believe that's necessary with hallucinigens etc. that can't be used in a public setting and need certain conditions for taking. Otherwise there'll be too many people being careless and harming themselves with drugs that can be used entirely safely in the right conditions, and if people see drug users taking them responsibly the attitude towards drugs will surely improve.
     
    1. 4/5,
      Interesting idea, unfortunetaly I can't see it happening
      May 2, 2006
    2. 3/5,
      great idea!
      May 1, 2006
  2. katukulysm

    katukulysm Mercury Member

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    in my opinion drugs are substances. thats all. I think human has gotten stupid with these substances to make them illegal. example: lots say lsd is a terribal and life threatining substance and will hurt as many as possibal.-that is a lie. lsd is just a substance, its those that are on lsd that either get to paranoid or dillusional and begin to attack or whatever and thats how these substances get a bad reputation. some people are stupid with drugs and give them a bad name. and there is somthing like an envirmental like place to take these unique substances, they are known as festibals and places like that. I agree with jimmeh.
     
  3. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    actually, jimmeh, thats a fascinating idea you have, of setting up safe drug using environments. while perhaps no such thing as a truly safe drug using environment can exist, certainly precautions could be taken to ensure greater safety of users of drugs in areas where they are legal. personally I wouldnt want to tripsit, say, anyone on a 3rd plateau dxm trip encountering a higher presence, but swim sees where swij is going with this and agrees with your idea.
     
  4. robin_himself

    robin_himself Gold Member

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    a center would be a great idea.... One could use the drug correctly and with all the knowleadge of the experienced users that work there. Also everything could be documented and it could serve as a research center aswell... rooms for shrooming with beautiful surroundings and intergrated sounds comming from the room.

    I think it would make it all better.
    If somebody would show me plans of starting something like that i would deffinately help out. But its a expensive plan.
     
  5. Lunar Loops

    Lunar Loops Driftwood Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Loveley idea there and in an ideal society, it could possibly happen. However, that said, we do not live in an ideal society and with the USA setting the drugs agenda (and just about every other agenda) for the rest of the world, there is little hope of it happening. It certainly is not going to happen here in Ireland, where church and state work hand in hand to set the moral agenda. Boy would it be worth it though, if only to see the fit that Gráinne Kenny would have at the very notion of it.
     
  6. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Silver Member

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    The point is it would be perfectly legal, and if it was set up quietly and then massively publicised with a lot correct information being distributed before anyone would have a chance to condemn it they couldn't really shut it down.

    The church has no power anymore, come on.....

    I believe acceptable drug use becoming accepted could happen in the same way as sex became more accepted. And I mean get youth culture behind it and there's nothing the government can actually do to stop it, I mean rock n' roll wasn't exactly approved of by conservatives at the start, but now it's accepted widely..
     
  7. Lunar Loops

    Lunar Loops Driftwood Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hmmm, nice thought. Now let's see what happened with mushrooms in Ireland? They were legal, started quietly, then lot of publicity, then illegal. Don't think for one second that nobody is going to condemn it, Gráinne 'moral crusader' Kenny would be on the case quicker than you could say "no harm". Don't think for one second that further plants/substances could not be made illegal. It is in no governments interest to pursue such an open-minded policy and that would see it as a vote loser. The campaign to shut down headshops is already rolling in this country (I'm not saying they'll succeed). You are not going to change the view of those in power in such a way (or those of your average church going Joe Public either). How long has the sensible information been distributed on cannabis? What is the result?

    You've obviously not listened to some of the same speeches from good old Bertie as I have. The influence is lessening, but it is still VERY much present in all walks of life (and the input into schools still is frightening).

    Again, a lovely thought and maybe it will happen over generations, but not in our lifetime I fear. Maybe I am getting too cynical in my old age, but how many times have I heard lines like that about a groundswell of popular opinion and there being no stopping us now. Cannabis campaigners have been saying that since the sixties and what exactly is the legal status of that again? I'm not saying stop the fight. I think it should be continued at all costs, but don't go expecting miracles either, you'll only be disappointed.
     
  8. grandbaby

    grandbaby Titanium Member

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    A very nice idea, but utopian for a couple of reasons (including those mentioned above).

    The other sad fact is that wherever there are drugs to be had, lunkheads will make asses of themselves about it. There's no question that if such safe sites were opened, they would soon be overrun with "party-hearty" good ol' boys (and sadly, yes, 99% of the idiots would be male), leading to some stupid behaviour.

    I think you're absolutely right that societal attitudes towards drugs need to change before any movement toward legalization can happen. I also think that societal attitudes towards drugs are largely to blame for the blossoming idiocy I mentioned above: If it was ingrained from youth that drugs were tools (for relaxation, for excitement, for spiritual reflection, for introspection, for enjoyment) that need to be respected and treated properly -- and that there were different tools for different purposes -- we'd see a lot less of this kind of thing.

    As it is, most of the knobs I run into in day-to-day living (I work in the blue-collar world) treat all drugs like alcohol, which is the only powerful psychoactive that society has as a model. And of course, alcohol is widely abused in our society. You can see where this is going....
     
  9. kritikal

    kritikal Silver Member

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    It is a very nice thought. However, surely if the drug is legal you could use it in a safe environment. But as you said before there are people who take drugs responsibly and people that dont. Publicising the use of a drug, safe and legally in your centre would surely attract attention of irresponsible people who would not want to use your facilities and would give the drug a bad name especially when it becomes very well known after the founding of your centre.

    As much as i would dream of a centre like that, it is best left relatively unknown in our culture until society changes there perception.
     
  10. Jimmeh

    Jimmeh Silver Member

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    Well, the whole point of a centre would be to draw good publicity to drugs, I mean what about an ad campaign that was anti-irresponible drug use rather than anti-drug use. What I'm saying is, if it was publicised fast and attracted positive attention in a short period of time, before conservative figures had time to organise a backlash against it it would make a much better case for responsible, recreational drug use. I mean mushrooms were banned as the result of an onslaught of BAD publicity. I think if there was an established safe place for drug use there would be less of a chance of a drug such as salvia being banned because some idiot takes it outside the centre in the wrong setting and kills him/herself.

    @grandbaby
    It wouldn't actually matter if idiots overran the centre, since they wouldn't be allowed to take too much and would be in a safe, monitered environment and thrown out if they caused trouble.

    And anyway, publicity aside, I think a centre would be good anyway in the long run even if the government continues banning drugs, because as long as only legal drugs are used the centre is legal, and there'll probably always be at least a few legal drugs that are worthwhile and safe...
     
  11. jonny thaiwongy

    jonny thaiwongy Newbie

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    People need to be more understanding if anything is ever going to change. I mean, everyone does things for a reason...I have a reason for my drug use...don't assume it was because i was born in 1987 and was led down the garden path by empty, boring stoners who will never do anything. If youo can try and understand you will gain my respect and i will be more open to your ideas because thats human nature i think i mean if i treat you well most likely you'll do the same to me. we all want to think we are doing whats right for us...thats a common trait we have so why not use it and discuss and be open, because if everyone was made to feel like their opinion mattered just because we are all equal, then many drug abuse problems would be solved i think. i've just realized im saying this to the wrong people. bollocks.
     
  12. The Doors

    The Doors Titanium Member

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    The idea of a spiritual/psychedelic is a good one. It would be good to have staff members with like a license of some sort that can inform people, and have rooms set-up so that people can have a good experience and if there are any problems, there are people on site to attend.

    I've also thought of some sort of license idea, kind of how people get a drivers license. They would have to go through a writing test to show that they have the proper knowledge to be able to use and buy drugs.

    As far as society goes, I think that legalisation of drugs goes far beyond simply social acceptance, it is a matter of the corporations throwing money everywhere and they have the governments wrapped up their sleeves... But really, they could just profit from producing them, but then again, the black market is much more profitable don't you think? Seeing as its in a "in-demand" sort of business, there is no set price.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
  13. Riconoen {UGC}

    Riconoen {UGC} Newbie

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    Woah, necromancy is bad news brotha.

    But as for social acceptance, I think one of the first steps is to portray drugs more positivley in the media, like lets say a character smokes pot, instead of portraying him as some stoner hippie just show him getting together with some buds (no pun intended) and having a good time. just like someone visiting thier favorite bar after work. only it's a joint instead of a beer.

    "Control the media, control the mind" -Someone whos name escapes me.
     
  14. The Doors

    The Doors Titanium Member

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    Jim Morrison;)
     
  15. congoo

    congoo Newbie

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    i saw a programme where some expoler went to brazilin rainforest he went to meet tribes poeple and as soon as he got there some one was snorting some kind of resin some natural form of dmt... there where seeing him in that state who knows ....my point is everyday they all start sniffing this stuff and doing whatever... my point ...wouldnt that be nice do ,, with poeple your best friends , poeple you know and trust .....they proberly been doing it fot 1000sands years....long before our backwards soicety stops anbody trying to really understand themselfs (and dont you think it is a wicked deed to stop poeple from there ultermate quest to find the ansewrs to life using simple plants doing as little harm as posibble but leaning the most possible) to know where they come from in a easy (just using plants) comfortable enviorment... i like your idea and if i can help i will...
     
  16. zera

    zera Gold Member

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    This idea was already tried with Timothy Leary, and what ended happening was LSD and psilocybin getting scheduled, mass public hysteria and Leary ultimately going to jail after being hounded by the feds. Drug users are a persecuted minority and the last thing a persecuted minority needs to do is to gather itself in one place and publicize it.

    No the best thing for us drug users to do would be to take over some carribean island and take all the wasted potential and talent of drug users around the world. Once our economy was roaring from tourism and brilliant expats the other states would legalize to compete with us. Of couse we would need to load up to the hilt with cheap Soviet anti-aircraft rockets to shoot down the eventual onslaught of American/British helicopters...
     
  17. Riconoen {UGC}

    Riconoen {UGC} Newbie

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    I'm with zera. The only problem is, is that when people think of groups armed with cold war era soviet weponry is "OMG AL QAEDA CONNECTIONS" and boom terrorists your day is through cuase now you have to answer to america fuck yeah. So the best idea is to go vermont and support the succession movement. I can imagine it now, The Free Republic of Vermont. I only wish nevada would follow suit becuase pretty much everything is legal here and theres a big libertarian presence, I mean, why do you think we were the first state to legalize gambling, the only state with legalized prostitution, the only state where you can buy alcohol 24/7, and almost legalized marijauna.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
  18. dwilkes7

    dwilkes7 Silver Member

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    I have been lurking and is absorbed in the topic and mental exercises of how to pull this idea off.

    What follows is just swim's opinion on the subject.

    There is a logical progression of steps that need to be accomplished in order for this to work. First, get just 1 substance legal. The best way to do that is the same as it has been ad infinitum, change the perception of the substance in the minds of the majority. Let's take cannabis for example (yeah I know):) . The best way to change the perception of something has not changed for hundreds of years. Today we call it PR. Imagine a comercial: Fade in to black and white. Show cancer sufferers during Chemo. and radiation. Thin, gaunt, no hair, and brutally honest with the side effects of the treatment. Patients describing their physical and emotional states while going through treatment. Fade to Black. Fade in color. Same people, but now they have their hair and look 1000% better, while they explain that if it wasn't for marijuana, they don't think they could have even taken the treatments. On screen subtitles with the plain truth about their feelings: "Now researchers have begun to answer these questions, with sometimes startling results. Patients asking for a doctor's help to kill themselves are typically cancer patients in their early 60's who fear "dependence, loss of dignity, humiliation and pain" Many patients don't even ask, they just take their own life. Cancer patient kneels down to hug their young beautiful happy children. Cut to a doctor who explains what a great drug marijuana has been in treating the side effects of cancer treatment.

    Swim lives in California where medical marijuana is used. The idea is to just show how helpful it has been to everyone, patient, family & friends, and doctors.

    PR is the bottom line by telling the truth. Get 1 thing done at a time. I have noticed that change works best by using gentle gradualism.

    Just swim's opinion.
     
  19. Darksanity

    Darksanity Newbie

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    Yeah, I've thought of this one!! Let's get some random island and create a new world!! :p