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Codeine: Tolerance and Dependance

Discussion in 'Codeine' started by darkglobe, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Hello. I've not been around here for a fair while, but I decided to pop in and answer a few Codeine questions. In doing so I found some questions I cannot answer myself.

    I've added a little bit of background to each question, explaining why I'm asking and why I'm asking questions which have been asked before.

    Here's what's causing me bother:

    Q1. Approximately how long does tolerance to Codeine last?
    • SWIM was a regular user of Codeine for 2 months.
    • SWIM was taking 300mg doses almost every night for a week.
    • SWIM hasn't taken Codeine above 90mg for a month and a half.
    Q2. Does the 400mg upper limit still apply to those with high tolerance?
    • As far as I understand, the 400mg limit is imposed by the liver, and it's pathetic capacity for turning (turning?! what's the word?? It's gone! MY mind's gone blank!) Codeine into Morphine.
    • SWIM has a high tolerance, and wonders if that would in any way affect the 400mg limit.

    Q3. Is 'Codeine Phosphate Hemihydrate' suitable for CWE?
    • SWIM hopes so. He's been using it at 90mg/night for quite some time.

    Q4. Why is SWIM always pissing since he started using Codeine regularly?
    • I do know that 'piss frequency' (that's now a technical term ;)) is affected by the diuretic/anti-diuretic hormones; the functioning of the kidneys (read about ultrafiltration and the nephron, it's well intricate stuff); the functioning of the liver.... and how much of dad's home-made moonshine you drink.
    Any help with these matters would be greatly appreciated :)
  2. Forthesevenlakes


    Reputation Points:
    Feb 26, 2006
    The liver could probably produce more of whichever enzyme it uses to convert codeine to morphine, and tolerance/dependence would almost certainly cause it to do so. Therefore SWIM figures that the 400 mg "limit" is present only in people with no opioid tolerance.

    The codeine phosphate should be able to be isolated with CWE, as far as SWIM knows the salt form that the codeine is present in shouldnt radically change its water solubility.
  3. Tortoise


    Reputation Points:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Q1. Not sure. Enrico imagines that if you stopped using codeine for about 2 months you'd be pretty close to baseline tolerance but it'd probably take a couple months more to get it right down (Enrico doesn't think he could handle going without for that long)

    Q2. Enrico believes that the upper limit does still apply to those with tolerance. Tolerance is an opiod-receptor related phenomenon. It's got nothing to do with liver enzymes.

    Q3. Hmmm... Enrico has no idea.

    Q4. That certainly is weird. Enrico finds he pisses significantly less after having codeine. Just as an aside, nothing makes him piss more than LSD, leaving him with the worst hangover imaginable. He has never heard of this happening to anybody else though. Different people, different effects.
  4. ironmics

    ironmics Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Aug 26, 2006
    For the tolerance question. I think it should be almost none after 2 months other than your natural tolerance. Swim isn't usually a daily user, but his opiate tolerances can drop after like a few days to a week. Last week it took him 20mg of percocet to get what he wanted. Then this week after stop taking it for awhile it only took him 10mg. I assume codeine is going to be the same thing. He has taken a lot of codeine, but he's more sensative to it than others and notices that his tolerance for it goes away after a day or two. But this is only him building up to 90 then going back to 30. Oh the pissing frequently thing is really odd too usually opiates make one retain urine. But last time swim took a good amount of codeine he had some terrible diarrhea, which is weird since it should constipate him. Codeine seems to be a mysterious drug.
  5. Tortoise


    Reputation Points:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Swim noticed that recently his tolerance has gone up big-time.

    He assumed that he would simply get the same effects by taking more codeine (ie he could replicate the high he used to get with 100mg by taking 200mg instead), but has found that although the intensity can be made equal, the euphoria and longevity of the high are lacking in comparison.

    So basically, there is now no way to get the nice euphoric highs from codeine that he used to get, unless he gives it up for a while to reduce his tolerance. Good thing he's going OS for a little while, by the time he gets back he'll be much closer to baseline.
  6. rocker666

    rocker666 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Approximately how long does tolerance to codeine last?
    Really long, SWIM has to stop for a week at least in order to feel any effects of 450 mg, but they aren't satisfying at all, probably after a few weeks it would be better. He takes 600 mg every 2 - 4 days.
    Does the 400 mg upper limit still apply to those with high tolerance?
    Of course not! SWIM feels a huge difference between 450 mg and 600 mg. However, maybe the limit exists, but it's surely higher than 400 mg.
    Is 'codeine phosphate hemihydrate' suitable for CWE?
    Of course yes, it's soluble in water and is the most common codeine's form in the whole pharmaceutical industry.

    SWIM hopes he helped :).