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Dose - Concerta 54mg vs Adderall 30mg

Discussion in 'Amphetamine' started by swimee, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. swimee

    swimee

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    So swim managed to grab some Concerta 54mg. Having never tried it before, but having had previous experiences with Adderall (30mg), swim was wondering how would the 2 compare to study but also for recreational usage? If swim got rid of the time release mechanism of the concerta, would the rush be too intense (oral route)? Any previous experiences will be much appreciated by my friend :)
     
  2. shiva_master

    shiva_master

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    Concerta take a while to kick in and have a lower recreational vale bUt works well with combination with addies.

    If possible, crush them Up somehow and parachute it.

    Dosage would have to be higher because concerta is not technically an amphetamine and much weaker.

    Swim believes 2:1 ratio sounds about right depending on the swiy and tolerance body weight etc.
     
  3. swimee

    swimee

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    The mgs aren't equivalent though (swim thought that 30mg of addy doesn't necessarily match 30 mg of concerta..).. Swim told me that concerta's didn't go above 54mg, which means it's the highest dosage available no?
     
  4. DudeMan

    DudeMan

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    My mind is telling me that you there is a larger dose available for concerta. I believe that they go up to 72mg but this is just my mind telling me this. SWIM thinks that the time release on the brand of methylphenidate called concerta can be sped up dramatically or bypassed all together. To simply speed up the release of the medication take razor and chop off the tip of the pill (THE SIDE THAT HAS A SMALL DOT / HOLE this dot is a small hole where the medication is slowly released) or you can simply create a slit down the side of the pill (To be more precise slice only the half of the pill that has the dot at the tip and for even faster release make multiple slits AND chop the rounded tip off. To bypass the time release all together you need a razor (makes it easy). The white outer coating comes off first. To do this slice through the coating length wise but try not to slice the pill casing. Then slice around both tips of the pill. Place the razor back into the horizontal slice and try to work it under the edge of the coating. This takes some practice but you will get the hang of it. Once you get the coating off you will notice the casing is clear and inside 1/2 half brown, 2/6 light yellow, and 1/3 white. Cut the pill in half where the brown meets yellow then cut where the yellow meets white. Peal the casing from around the yellow and try to pick off any white or brown that may still be stuck to it.

    I think the yellow chunk is plain methylphenidate and the white tip is dextromethylphenidate but I could be wrong. Swim told me that he gets a different effect from the white chunk and the yellow. Swim also told me that he finds the white chunk to be impossible to grind into powder and that you are better off ingesting it as is and the yellow chunk is much drier and is easily powdered. Discard the brown chunk because it has no medicinal value. It's purpose is to expand and press the medicine out of the pill casing slowly.

    DudeMan added 59 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

    I meant 1/6 white. Swim just pointed that out to me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  5. gonegrowin

    gonegrowin

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    Concerta is great, my friend told me it feels like good cocaine. You cannot sniff it, it will turn into paste in your nose. I have been told you can deactivate the time release by simply cutting if it half longways. There are 3 layers, the orange and white are the methylphenidate. The green just expands and pushes it out of the pill. 54mg oral should be enough (assuming the time release is defeated). That amount gets my friend, who is about 190lb and very lean, quite torqued. He would take it over adderall anyday.
     
  6. Sweet_Ben

    Sweet_Ben Silver Member

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    You could check this Can Methylphenidate Cause Premature Ejaculation? I'v posted some information there.

    Concerta actually is methlphenidate. It's not different of Ritalin or anything else. Only difference lies in the fact concerta is long action released. (about in 12 hrs po)

    Actually, 72mg is the maximum a m.d will precribe. Generally, 54mg is the maximum for common use.

    True, methyphenidate is like cocaine because it's molecular is about the same. Cocaine is only stronger because it's 1) faster effect 2) sticker to the dopaminergic recpetor than methylphenidate

    So is adderall the best? Don't know adderall, but if its methylphenidate without long action release effect will be the same as ritalin
    (4 hrs effect for ritalin, so 1x concerta 54 mg= 3x18 mg ritalin)
     
  7. DudeMan

    DudeMan

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    Your wrong.
     
  8. Sweet_Ben

    Sweet_Ben Silver Member

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    loll perhaps... but you quote all my post... what you think is wrong?
     
  9. gonegrowin

    gonegrowin

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    Premature ejaculation? My dog cant even get a boner on this shit, his body is in that fight or flight sweaty ass mode. Just like cocaine
     
  10. RetroHousewife

    RetroHousewife

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    Care to explain a little? No one has any clue which particular point SWIY is arguing with, or what his reasons are nor his counter point. How about some detail there?

    As to the OP, SWIM finds Concerta does OK at helping her focus but she never gets much of a buzz from it, even when she's tried to follow instructions and take the coating off and got frustrated so she just beat the pill all to hell and back with a hammer. SWIM really likes Adderall however, and finds that she gets a nice buzz from both the IR and the XR, if she takes enough of the XR that is, plus the XR buzz lasts and lasts for her. She has to redose every few hours with the IR.
     
  11. Sweet_Ben

    Sweet_Ben Silver Member

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    This was not my thread nor my question, I only post info there I does'nt want to repeat here so I publish this internal link. No, you are right, methylphenidate does'nt ''cause'' ejaculation. It's only stimulitating the same nervous system that ejaculation is relevant: sympatic system. Go see for yourself, as I will gonna quickly be ''off-topic''.

    This time I will give reference as I don't want to be treat of liar.

    Anatomie et physiologie humaine, Elaine.N.Marieb, Chap 14, Psysiologie du SNA (Physiology of the autonom nervous system), p.558-566

    '', fig.14.4;14.5 treat the effects of the nervous system on different organ
     
  12. DudeMan

    DudeMan

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    Then you must not have ADHD!

    I never heard of people not being able to get a boner on cocaine... I thought it was supposed to be easier? :vibes:

    DudeMan added 1 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

    I was just playing around... ;) I got in trouble and I are sorry.

    :vibes:

    DudeMan added 0 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

    I was just playing around... ;) I got in trouble and I are sorry. :laugh:

    :vibes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  13. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    As annoyingly unspecific and grammatically incorrect as his post was, there are a couple things slightly wrong.

    I have never heard of this sort of unwritten rule that 54mg is a maximum secondary to the FDA's recommended maximum dose of 72mg. I cannot see a reason for this, nor has it been my own experience when I was prescribed to methylphenidate...

    Just a slight correction: cocaine does not bind to dopaminergic receptors, but to dopaminergic reuptake transporter proteins (actually, it binds to and blocks all monoamine reputake transporter proteins with different affinities, whereas methylphenidate has far less affinity for serotonergic transporter proteins that it is considered an NDRI).

    I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, but ultimately the most important thing is the plasma concentration. Concerta 54mg should produce equivalent efficacy to 15mg IR methylphenidate taken two or three times throughout the day, except the Concerta would not produce the same "comedown" effect experienced between doses of the IR metyhlphenidate. This is illustrated in Figure 1 of the prescribing information for Concerta (attached to this post):
    [​IMG]


    Edit: Can someone please explain to me why cocaine and methylphenidate are considered so chemically similar? I don't have best understanding of biochemistry but what about these two molecules would make one say "ah, those will have similar effects!"?
    Column 1 Column 2
    0
    Cocaine
    Methylphenidate
    1 [​IMG][/center]
    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  14. DudeMan

    DudeMan

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    Maybe they bind to the same receptor? I don't really know... I do know that different molecules can bind to the same receptor yet the receptor does not react the same with both molecules. Take THC and JWH-073 for example. They both bind to the same receptors but their effects are not entirely the same (although quite similar) and neither are the side effects / negative effects. Cocaine is much more potent which in my mind means that it fits the receptor better (even though that is probably wrong). Its like a puzzle piece that fits just right while methylphenidate fits but it doesn't look right. :p

    :vibes:
     
  15. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Again, these compounds do not bind to the actual synaptic receptors, they bind to the reuptake transporter proteins; I understand that both molecules bind to DAT proteins, but I get the impression that some people find the similar stimulating effects of these two drugs obvious based on their chemical structure, I'm just wondering what about the molecular structures infers such similarity.

    But to get back on topic, it's hard to really give any random person a correct answer. In theory, Adderall should be more stimulating because not only does amphetamine block the reuptake like methylphenidate, but it also activates post-synaptic receptors. In general, I think 30mg Adderall (IR?) would typically feel a little stronger than 54mg Concerta, but everyone is different. Recreationally, most people prefer amphetamines over methylphenidate, but there certainly are people who prefer methylphenidate...
     
  16. Sweet_Ben

    Sweet_Ben Silver Member

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    Sorry, I'm french I maybe make grammatical error...

    It's writed in Guide des m├ędicaments, wich I use for posting here. I also be confirmed this by a M.d. It's simple, if the guy has never been prescribe MPH when he was young, 54 is likely to be the max. 72 is for people that ''pursue'' a therapeutical treatment from their younger age. But you are right; 72 is the true maximum. A M.d will never get above that...
    Well, thank you, I have nothing to say there. I'v just started my biochemistry course and I lack proper knowledge yet for this kind of matter...

    What I mean:
    Concerta= 12hrs effect (mainly because its enterosolub tablet)
    Ritalin= 4hrs effect




    Well, with your post I assume that you have pretty good understanding of biochemistry. But you have posted your picture in 2-D...



    Here in 3-D:
    Methylphenidate:
    [​IMG]


    Cocaine:
    [​IMG]

    You can see, 2 different molecule, but a quick look can say it's similar

    Also a simple wiki-search:


    MPH possesses structural similarities to amphetamine, and though it is less potent, its pharmacological effects are even more closely related to those of cocaine.
     
  17. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    I was talking about DudeMan's "your wrong" post, I know from previous posts that English isn't your first language and even if it were, I would overlook grammatical errors because your posts are much more useful than a simple "your wrong" response...

    Do you know if this applies to the United States or European countries? M.D.s are bound to have varying opinions...

    Concerta's sustained-release system is osmotic, other delayed-release systems use enterosoluble coatings, but such coatings on an OROS tablet would only ensure that the outer shell remains in tact for long enough so that the osmotic release isn't defeated too early in digestion...

    The 3D renderings don't really tell me anything that the 2D drawings don't... I guess my question is: what about these molecules gives away their affinity for DAT proteins? I'm not saying that I don't believe these drugs produce similar effects, so I don't understand how the wiki info answers my question...
     
  18. Sweet_Ben

    Sweet_Ben Silver Member

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    Good point... I'm from Quebec, it's surely not the same procedure than in U.S or Europe...



    Well, I have no idea... I must get my hand on our Compendium or Merk (?) at the faculty since I does'nt have one myself... with all homeworks maybe in 1-2 weeks I could check this. I could post on another thread since I have go enough off-topic here... sorry

    To get back at the question; I don't know Alderall... but here in Quebec we have Ritalin, SWIM had a prescription for Ritalin 10 mg bid and later concerta 36. But SWIM remember also when he get prescribe ritalin, that it does a greater effect than concerta. (Does Alderall would do the same??) Like staples said, all person being unique, maybe SWIY get a better effect with concerta... or not.
     
  19. RetroHousewife

    RetroHousewife

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    Adderall and Ritalin are two different meds. Adderall is mixed amphetamine salts, while ritalin is methylphenidate and not an amphetamine at all, just similar.
     
  20. Sweet_Ben

    Sweet_Ben Silver Member

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    That sounds cool. Does these are prescribe in Quebec for ADD/H too?

    Sweet_Ben added 11 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

    I have my answers. It's yes.

    I check in my book and Adderall 30mg is the max (here) dose that are prescribe for ADD. Concerta it's 72 (like I said for someone who already take this younger). So logically Adderrall 30's effect stronger than Concerta 54. (I does'nt have check this, just my opinion)
    Also, an interesting info: Alderall's metabolism depend on urinary PH. If the PH is low (acid) it take less time to metabolize Alderall than if it's high (alcalin). So there are drug-food interaction who can increase/decrease PH.
    Ex: Sodium bicarbonate, Acetazolamide, Fruit juice all increase PH, so increase adderrall effect.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2010