Oral use - Cooking with Synthetic Cannabinoids

Discussion in 'Cannabinoids' started by Ekyldog, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. Ekyldog

    Ekyldog Silver Member

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    I started this thread on behalf of his pet turtle (Orion) because there seems to be very limited discussion in this forum relating to cooking with synthetic cannabinoids.

    Orion would like to experiment with cooking (or otherwise preparing) dishes infused with JWH-018, and possibly other synthetic cannabinoids as well. For the scope of this post, Orion will discuss JWH-018 as it's the only synthetic cannabinoid he has experience with.

    From what Orion has read, it seems the JWH-018 is soluble in a similar fashion to THC: it's fat* and alcohol soluble (*reference needed, see below). With that in mind, Orion was thinking of doing some experimenting with using JWH-018 in prepared food dishes.

    The obvious problem this presents to Orion is that the vaporization point of JWH-018 is quite low. His guess is that if he puts it into some food (for instance, cake or brownie mix), the heat from cooking said mixture may result in all the JWH-018 simply vaporizing/evaporating, or otherwise degrading the quality of the cannabinoid. For this reason, Orion would only consider cold recipes unless another swimmer can verify that the JWH-018 wouldn't simply evaporate or degrade from the heat of cooking.

    If Orion were to attempt this, he obviously wouldn't just callously toss a bit of JWH-018 crystals into the mix. Since the JWH-018 is fat and alcohol soluble, a couple of methods might be used to infuse the JWH-018 into the food. The goal would be to create as homogeneous a mixture as possible by dissolving the JWH-018 into some vegetable oil or butter, which would then be used in whichever recipe one desired. The other method would be dissolving the JWH-018 into some alcohol, which would be added as such. Again, the recipes used would likely be something cold (cake icing, or some type of spread) instead of something actually meant to be baked/cooked. The idea would be to add JWH-018 enhanced ingredients after the cooking, to "Spice" it up a bit (pun intended).

    Do any swimmers out there have experience with cooking, or otherwise preparing synthetic cannabinoids for oral use (other than just taking it in the pure form)? This thread could also be used to post information/experiences about cooking with any of the smoking blends on the market. However, please refrain from using this thread to discuss orally ingesting synthetic cannabinoids or smoking blends in their pure form.

    Edit: Since originally starting this topic for my pet turtle, he has done some reading and Orion can't seem to locate the source where he originally read, or at least thought he read, where JWH-018 is a fat soluble compound. Can any swimmers provide a reference for JWH-018 being fat soluble?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2009
  2. Ballin Made

    Ballin Made Silver Member

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    I have made jello using jwh-018 and it worked great! He used about 5 mgs a serving. Its better if You make them in individual cups so You knows how much jwh-018 You is taking.

    This should be an interesting thread
     
  3. Ekyldog

    Ekyldog Silver Member

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    That's a great idea! Orion hadn't thought of using jello, but now that You mentioned it, he's really liking the idea. The jello idea made Orion think of other possibilities that wouldn't involve cooking or heating. An instant pudding mix might provide excellent results, and same goes for the blended jello/mousse treats. "No-bake JWH cheesecake" would be an incredible treat, Orion would bet. One could also infuse it right into a chip dip or salsa, to be used in conjunction with munchies... what a concept! :)

    Orion would like to add, he tried tasting the pure JWH-018 that he has. It seems to have absolutely no taste that he can discern, if anything it might taste like talcum powder or something... basically just powder without taste. That really surprised him, he thought it would taste terrible (like DXM or something), but the fact that it's virtually tasteless seems to lend itself to the culinary world.
     
  4. G_nome

    G_nome Palladium Member

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    Milk shakes may be an idea.

    My pet would experiment with said idea but unfortunately he's recently run out of jwh-018 and won't be getting any more for another week or so, damn postal strikes!

    G_nome added 2 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

    But i must say, fantastic idea for a thread! Especially seeing as no one knows what dangers could be involved with smoking or vaporising synthetic cannabinoids such as jwh-018.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  5. Ballin Made

    Ballin Made Silver Member

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    Theres all kinds of thing You could make but just remember to be careful! You shouldn't make BIG batches. You should make each individual portions seperate so swim knows exactly how much jwh You are consuming. Swim thinks it could easily have a high concentration of jwh in a condensed area if You makes a big portion and it could possibly turn to a very unpleasant high!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  6. LaLorde

    LaLorde Newbie

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    So, has anyone got an estimation on the amount (compared to the amount you would inhale) and any differing effects or duration for some common compounds?
    Swim will most likely be experimenting with some jwh-*** this weekend, most likely jwh-250. He will return with amount and duration.

    Other than that Swim can only agree to stick with cold dishes, and make small batches in order to regulate the amount.
    Keep the thread alive.

    LaLorde added 821 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

    I found an article that woud suggest that the bioavailability (not the absorption) of synthethic cannabinoids (only one in this case) increase when eaten togheter with a meal with a high-fat content.

    Swim haven't had the time to carefully read any study on the subject and aren't to sure about the source. It should by no means be considered a fact.

    Not to interessting, since it is widley known that THC is fat-soluble. If someone has got information on the solubility of some of the common syntethic cannabinoids, post!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  7. cannademon

    cannademon Titanium Member

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    If JWH is fat soluble, and its hard to vapourise at THC temperatures, eg around 190C, if put in a base eg butter, it could be cooked in a endless amounts of dishes from meals to lovely cakes, if you keep the cooking temperature at say 160C approx, no cannabinoids should vapourise. Butter keeps for a long time in the fridge/freezer, so You could make a batch..

    The amount You doses, is up to You and should be based on your tolerance level etc..
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  8. Ballin Made

    Ballin Made Silver Member

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    Swim says homemade popsycles work great and easy to make individual doses safely
     
  9. Shampoo

    Shampoo entity of sorts Staff Member

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    Can you please expand on this? What doses are being used? What Cannabinoid? Is the Cannabinoid dissolved initially in a carrier solvent (i.e. EtOH) or is it dissolved in the water which forms the popsicle? Does the presence of the Cannabinoid effect popsicle taste?
     
  10. Ballin Made

    Ballin Made Silver Member

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    I has individual popsycle holders and will usually put about 3-5 mgs of jwh-018 in each imdividual popsycle holder so he knows EXACTLY how jwh-018 is in each popsycle. Swim never makes a big batch mixing in the jwh-018 first, he always puts each dose of jwh-018 (3-5mg) in each individual popsycle holder. Swim says that jwh seems tastless. He's eaten it before by itself expecting a horrible taste but tasted like nothing really.

    Jello shots seem easier to do for swim and can be done in the same way in individual doses but I would wait for the jello mix to cool off a little bit since the directions say use boiling water with jello mix. Just a little tip
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
  11. samm2

    samm2 Silver Member

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    Already been stated and confirmed to be fat soluble.......please don't wreck, pyrolise and obliterate your JWH by cooking!!!!! Natural MJ THC needs to be decarboxylated to be rendered orally effective, hence the cooking part, this is different, unless my understanding is incorrect(would love to be corrected). Yes, lovely cakes would be nice,but most of us want MAXIMUM bioavailability via the oral route(which in my experience,lasts longer with a nice slower trailing off....)
     
  12. cannademon

    cannademon Titanium Member

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    Well I have evaporated at 70-80C IPA on a bain marie with JWH & a base material to make a smoking mix (in a well ventilated Kitchen of course!), with no noticable degradion or breakdown in JWH strengh, therefore im sure you can slow cook safely. Will make a small cooking batch to test, I have some JWH spare. Thanks for your comments samm2, interesting chalenge.
     
  13. skunkjar

    skunkjar Newbie

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    This is interesting. Tony's neighbour really likes his 018 dosed orally, but was wondering is everyone using 5mg doses? I was told for a good oral dose one would use 8-10mg. Maybe they just have a high tolerance?

    Fred says he has chewed (put a bud in like a fat dip) and eaten buds that were not cooked of made in to butter or oil and still got very high from them. He has no ref sources since it was his first hand experience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  14. samm2

    samm2 Silver Member

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    I would rather not risk degradation/vaporization and it adds another unknown to the equation......even if heat is non harmful, for how long before possible decrease in potency?What temp is safe?Using a pan,oven or microwave?

    I think(from experimentation and reading other reports)that day to day variances in ones ability to digest and assimilate fats plays a big role in all this.Adam Gottlieb in a book on Cannabis Cuisine says eating sugar inteferes with fat assimilation and therefore recommends no sugar with prepared "dishes".Pun intended...food for thought.
     
  15. twoiko

    twoiko Titanium Member

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    Well, the BP of THC is around 180C, 315F. The Melting Point of JWH-018 is over 200C.

    I don't see any potential problem with cooking the substance at all... When anyone uses a lighter to vape it they are heating it to over 500C.
     
  16. msimm

    msimm Titanium Member

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    Do you have a source on that data?
     
  17. bluntshell

    bluntshell R.I.P. Titanium Member R.I.P.

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    Some one told me this story about how this guy had tried eating half a gram of a common smoking blend in capsules. And he had also tried cooking the same amount of the same blend in some peanut butter spread on crackers, then wrapped in aluminum foil and placed in the oven at 220 for 15-20 min.

    Apparently the crackers resulted in an effect lasting 8 hours and being fairly intense while the capsules slightly exceeded baseline.

    Supposedly the guy suspected that the cannabinoids being dissolved in the peanut oil helped aid absorbtion and utilization of the cannabinoids.
     
  18. twoiko

    twoiko Titanium Member

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    Well I can't post the link or it would break the sources rule but:
    "...
    Boiling Pt (deg C) : 495.43 (Adapted Stein & Brown method)
    Melting Pt (deg C) : 208.22 (Mean or Weighted MP)
    ..."
     
  19. msimm

    msimm Titanium Member

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    @twoiko

    Thanks. I'm not sure the vendor who originally posted that data is reputable and it wasn't taken from any MSDS so I'm not sure how accurate it would be.
     
  20. twoiko

    twoiko Titanium Member

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    Sorry I can't get more info on this but they seem to be hypothetical temperatures as well.

    Also, I've seen the same values posted on several different forums websites with no sources or dead links to sources...