1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Effects - Date rape drug & pharmaceutical mdma

Discussion in 'Ecstasy & MDMA' started by bostonnew, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. bostonnew

    bostonnew Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    71
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    152
    Male from denmark
    Hi friends,

    Two quick questions:

    1. One of my friends claims that someone put an ecstasy pill in his beer at a party. He uses this as an example of the only time he has tried drugs (except for alcohol and cannabis). He says it made him euphoric so he's sure it was E. Is that realistic? Does ecstasy even dissolve in water? Why would anyone put that in someone's drink?

    2. Are pharmaceutical companies allowed to manufacture mdma as long as they don't sell it? Are they allowed to experiment with other types of MDxx? How can governments ever control if they do this or not? And if MDxx really has a valid therapeutic potential (as many here on DF claim) wouldn't they lobby like crazy to get it legalized, making it the next blockbuster pharma drug?

    Cheers,
     
  2. User-126494

    User-126494 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    3,432
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,261
    Male from earth
    To answer SWIY's questions...

    1) MDMA will dissolve in water, and alcohol, so it is no problem for it to dissolve in a full glass of beer at active amounts. In fact, it may be dissolved this way as an effective ROA. Why is anyone's guess, and not a very nice thing to do either. In fact, it is illegal in many places.

    2) This is a tougher question to answer. "Big Pharma" can manufacture a whole host of chemicals. Some of which are precursors to other chemicals, but are illegal in themselves. Do they manufacture certain products which they retain on a "not-for-sale" basis? The answer would be yes. There are research chemicals, scheduled chemicals which are being used in studies in order to evaluate the efficacy of these as potential therapeutic pharmaceuticals.

    If SWIY is interested in research going on with these potential treatments and chemicals SWIM would suggest SWIY check out the MAPS project here: http://www.maps.org/

    As their name implies, "Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies." There have been some items posted to this forum in particular, this recent post: Health - First completed clinical trial evaluating MDMA as an adjunct to psychotherapy.

    The hamster hopes than answers the questions.

    Be safe...
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
  3. Plaah

    Plaah Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -5
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Male from U.K.
    Wanderer beat me to the reply so here's my cut down version that should just add to what has already been said.

    1. MDMA salts are soluble in water. The freebase form is not. Euphoria is an effect of MDMA but is common to most stimulants. To narrow it down a duration and after effects would be helpful.


    2. They can only manufacture controlled substances if they have a licence from a government licence. In the UK that would be from the home office and in the USA I think it's from the DEA.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  4. Phenoxide

    Phenoxide Super Moderator Staff Member

    Reputation Points:
    8,533
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    5,737
    Male from United States
    Any legitimate research institution can synthesize and test controlled substances provided they have the necessary licenses and government approvals. These licenses are difficult and expensive to obtain, and any controlled substances have to be fully accounted for, with multiple safeguards in place. Controlled substances used in legitimate research are amongst the most watched chemicals on the planet, so there's really no scope for mis-use.

    Pharmaceutical companies certainly have access to controlled substances for research purposes, but they do not tend to actively investigate them or their very close analogues. They are typically used as a tool to assist R&D of other compounds.

    So why do pharma not lobby for these compounds? The legal status and abuse potential make such compounds unattractive drug candidates from a publicity and a legal perspective. They're also unattractive from a commercial perspective, as the active substances are not novel. MDMA itself could not be patented at this point, so it takes creative patenting to ensure market exclusivity for a few years. The FDA would probably also demand clinical trials on an unprecedented scale before even considering the idea. Even then the FDA or equivalent drug agencies would likely only approve controlled substances for very limited applications, which would limit profitability. Unless it's a surefire blockbuster drug it's not something they are likely to invest in, as the chances of getting to market would be slim. The one exception to this is of course Marinol, the pharmaceutical preparation of delta-9-THC.

    There are however academic/medical research groups that are progressing work in this field though. For example, Dr. Roland Griffiths at John Hopkins University has done some stellar work investigating the positive psychological impact of occassional psilocybin use. Substances such as MDMA, LSD and psilocybin have been investigated in recent years as treatments for conditions as diverse as PTSD, cluster headaches and palliative care for terminal cancer patients. After a few decades where such studies died a death, the field is slowly re-emerging into legitimate medical research.
     
  5. bostonnew

    bostonnew Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    71
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    152
    Male from denmark
    Thanks for the answers. Do you guys think another drug than mdma is more likely to have been in his drink? It was a somewhat dramatic experience for him and I would like to help him understand if it was actually E or not. It made him very euphoric. I don't know much about what these criminals typical put in people's drinks, but is there a typical date rape drug that has this effect? Or are they more likely to be downers?

    I see. But didn't the pharmaco exactly do some creative patenting with amphetamines? When they were initially discovered, no medical function of them were known and it was only much later (after using them in military and as anti-depressants) that they found their use for adhd. As I'm not a medical researcher I'm obviously not saying that mdma would be beneficial in treatment, but I don't understand why the pharmacos don't pull the same stunt as they've done with adderall, ritalin, desoxyn, etc. Maybe not for adhd, but I'm sure tons of other conditions exist where one could construct an argument.
     
  6. User-126494

    User-126494 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    3,432
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,261
    Male from earth
    Typically this is the case where the victim is taken somewhere like a hotel room with the promise of some sort of favor, and a CNS depressant has been added to their drink. This was popular with the now banned in the US Rohypnol (Flunitrazepam). The victim would then pass out and be robbed, raped, or both. The victim would awake with no memory of the evening's "extravaganza."

    The only reason to put a stimulant which would induce euphoria SWIM guesses is to make the victim lose their inhibitions and control over their wallet and the amount they spent. Perhaps a stripper club? SWIM has never heard of this happening, perhaps some other SWIMmers have?

    Be safe, watch that drink...
     
  7. Plaah

    Plaah Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -5
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Male from U.K.
    [QUOTE=wanderer;873733]Be safe, watch that drink...[/QUOTE]

    Top 3 Ideal Qualities of the Perfect Date Rape Drug! GO!

    1. Impairs the victims judgement
    2. Sedates the victim
    3. Impairs the memory of the victim

    And the drug that perfectly provides all 3 in your target and is easily available? The ethanol in that pint of yours.

    MDMA is not a date rape drug. It is an urban myth propagated buy trashy newspapers like The Sun. It will not produce 1 and 2 in the victim and only slightly produce 3 meaning they will be able to fight back and remember, the two things no surprise sex specialist wants to deal with.

    Onto if it was E or not: I'm gunna assume it was fairly recently that this "pill slipped in my drink I had no idea I was taking anything illegal officer" episode occurred. I would probably say that he was "slipped" mephedrone which would have produced short lasting (1-2hour max) euphoria which an inexperienced drug user might assume was MDMA.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2017
  8. Micklemouse

    Micklemouse Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    4,681
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,322
    Male from U.K.
    And there we have it. I was wondering when someone would come out with that one. I'm sure (I hope) the above is meant as a joke, albeit in bad taste. Spiking somebody is bad enough, to do so in order to impair their judgement & lead them to consent to sex that they wouldn't otherwise have consented to is rape, not only sexual but chemical, spiritual & psychological. Spiking leads to an exceptionally vulnerable state, & can never truly be justified - what you are talking about above is justifying taking advantage of that vulnerable state.

    The combination of mdma & large amounts of ethanol could indeed lead to loss of memory & poor judgement - A Certain Mouse has on a few occasions found himself drifting back to full cognition with little to no memory of the preceding few hours after mixing the 2. The combination can also lead to major disinhibition, making the taker possibly do things they would not otherwise have done. The operative here is large amounts of ethanol however, which of course is often a relative amount given peoples experience with it, body mass, etc. It is potentially possible that a large dose of mdma alone could lead to a similar state, but unlikely, & certainly not as quickly or predictably as alcohol would.
     
  9. sykes

    sykes Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    11
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    403
    Male from Australia
    SWIM does see how his statement and the threads title can mislead. But SWIM would never spike someone in order to rape or lower inhibitions. But SWIM has had only positive experiences with his lady friends and MDMA :vibes:
     
  10. User-126494

    User-126494 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    3,432
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,261
    Male from earth
    The OP was male and wondering why someone might spike his drink for euphoria.

    SWIM postulates that if this were a strip club, or some other sort of scam, he would have his inhibitions lowered and therefore, his wallet might be more easily pried from his pocket.

    Cash would flow as attention would paid to him, and even the old credit cards could be run up. SWIM has heard of this happening in some of the shadier parts of town where he lives, and know drink spiking is fairly common there where the male patrons are spikes and then as much cash is extracted from their ATM, wallet, and credit card as possible.

    Would a drug producing euphoria like MDMA cause one to lose inhibitions,, especially in combination with alcohol, it could be a deangerous combination as far as the wallet is concerned in a predatory establishment bent on relieving a male visitor of his cash.

    This was SWIM's earlier point.

    Be careful, be safe, be well...
     
  11. RaverHippie

    RaverHippie Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,184
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,221
    Male from New York, U.S.A.
    Another point about the pharmaceutical companies, the patent would have expired as it was filed in 1912 by Merck so I'm not sure how much profitability there would be for it, considering anyone would be able to manufacture and market an MDMA product if any were allowed by a given government.
     
  12. Dan_drone

    Dan_drone Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    48
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    31
    Male from U.K.
    on the spiking drinks front , it amy of purely been done for the luls. to flesh out this bare bones explantion , perhaps one of swims friends other friends (confusing i know :p ) did it simply to see how the friend would react. it may of been someones confused attempts at trying to push the same euphoria and enjoyment onto someone else , not realising that people wont take a drug for a reason. may have also been someone thinking it was their own pint by accident ? could be a huge number of variables my dear watson
     
  13. OL909

    OL909 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    81
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Male from slovenia
    Can swim ask who put the chemical in swiy's friends drink? If it was a friend then maybe MDMA is a possiblity, you know as a laugh (not funny in my opioin but some seem to feel it is). If someone else put it in, do we know who? and how does he know something was put in his drink?
     
  14. bostonnew

    bostonnew Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    71
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    152
    Male from denmark
    I'm sure it was a stranger. My friend's friends aren't the kind who would find that funny. And it wasn't a strip club, btw. He's really good looking though so I was speculating it could be spiking by a homosexual. Or maybe a straight guy trying to spike a girl's drink, but choosing the wrong one. Anyway, thanks for all the thoughts. I just needed some knowledge so I can help him process the experience better and thought mdma spiking was unlikely but I guess not.
     
  15. OL909

    OL909 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    81
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    166
    Male from slovenia
    Has swiy seen "The Hangover" film? Maybe it was like that in reverse got the date rape and E the wrong way round.

    The whole situation seems werid to swim, he hates the idea that someone would put something into someones drinks/