Drug info - Datura basics

Discussion in 'Nightshades' started by genaro, Apr 27, 2005.

  1. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    So, here is some info about datura use (Datura spp.)
    Note that it's exactly the same thing for any solanaceae plant as Atropa Belladonna aka Belladonna, Mandragora Officinarum aka mandrake, Hyoscyamus Niger aka henbane, Brugmansia spp. aka tree datura...I mean same risks, same effects (exepting that belladonna and mandrake are the most toxic ones: they have also been used as deadly poisons to kill people), same preparation (not tea!! make an ointment!), same advice about increasing dose progressively...the same.



    MOST USED SPECIES OF DATURA:

    Datura Inoxia (also called Datura Meteloides):
    this is the one mexico shamans use for visionnary purposes, probably the best specie to be used

    Datura Metel (also called Datura Fastuosa):
    another specie used by shamans

    Datura Strammonium:
    said to be more toxic than the two other species, it's the one that was used by european middle age witches

    Note that there are many other species of datura but these are the most famous one (and "tree datura" is refering to another specie of solanaceae plant: Brugmansia spp.)

    HOW TO USE DATURA:

    Datura ?
    Well, I believe all of you are responsible people. So I know all of you
    have been making lots of researches ( AND erowid.org) before even thinking about using such a dangerous (who did say poisonous ?) drug.
    So, I would say that any of you who would think about using datura is aware of this:


    Datura potency vary greatly from one plant to another (including between two plants of the same strain)...

    MUCH better using the seeds since their potency vary much less than leaves & flowers (wich potency may vary greatly from one to another)
    This doesn't mean seeds aren't dangerous. They are.
    Note that datura roots portency also doesn't vary much so it's ok too.
    BUT (!!) I've heard someone stating that:
    " the belladonna root has an adittional additional alkaloid, apoatropine, which is extremely toxic, and likely to prove lethal even when taken in very small amounts, and by small amounts, we are talking 0.5-1mg or so"
    then I guess that for belladonna you should REALLY avoid using the roots (I think that considering this, if you're not stupid, you won't use the belladonna root).

    Datura dosages often vary greatly from an individual to another.
    Some would get complete delirium with 30 seeds, other would need as much as 200 (!!). So if one would need 30 but use 200 as a friend who used 200 successfully told him to do he would just overdose...death can occur in two ways with datura: from cardiovascular troubles (greatly increased heart rate, up to 150bpm, and severe hypertension) leading to haemorrhage, heart failure... OR from overheating up to 42-43°C !
    You'll HAVE TO start with low dose (20-30) and work your way up progressively until you find your OWN dose (for me it's around 100 seeds with datura strammonium, the only specie I've tried)

    Smoking leaves/flowers is said to be the safest way to use datura but I tried to smoke datura stramonium leaves, flowers and seeds with NO results. Just a very slight high feeling. Maybe this could work if your plant is very concentrated but I doubt it would give any hallucinations, I think at most would you get a high and weird feelings.

    So here is how to get hallucinations:

    The WRONG & most dangerous way to use Datura (& other solanaceae) is to take them orally (eating the seeds or making a tea)... hospitalisations and death have often happened with oral use.

    The ONLY "SAFE" (note the " ") way has to be the way people who used datura for thousand years have choosen:
    Shamans & european witches believe the good way to be transdermal use in the form of an ointment wich is spread over specific parts of the body.

    The wise guy knows the only way to choose to be the shaman's way (not
    the "people on the internet" or "friend of mine" way)

    Yess, shamans & witches know what they are doing.

    Datura has two active principles. One is "good" for tripping. The other is not. The good one can pass through the skin. The bad one can't. So using datura transdermally is the way to keep the bad one out of you're body (that sounds great because you don't want this one to be in your system)
    Don't ask me how could shamans be aware of this, centuries ago...


    Ow! People on the internet claim they have been using a tea successfully ? Congratulations ! (note that some didn't had any congratulations for their tea because they are no more here to tell anyone about their own tea-death story )
    Fun, isn't it ?
    So don't listen to internet people saying stupid things like "make a tea, drink it, that's a great high, it worked for me"...because it was fatal to many.

    SO, I hope nobody is fool enough to use datura orally when they know it's not good for them

    ...& here is the ointment recipe (so nobody has any excuse for not doing it):

    -Crush the datura seeds in a fine powder.
    -Place the powdered seeds in some lard (= pork fat).
    -Add some organic soot (how to make it: see below).
    -Blend well.
    -Cook over a gentle heat (below 100 °C) for 2-4 hours while stiring regularly.
    -Let sit for a week (at least) in a dark place, stir regularly (several times a day).
    -Filter (see the note below).
    -Keep the fatty ointment in a sealed glass jar, in a dark & cool place.

    Note: you'd better handle the ointment wearing gloves (since the ointment is absorbed through the skin).

    How to make organic soot ? Just place some lard in some aluminium foil to make a foil parcel. Place it in the ambers until the lard is completely grilled (you should obtain some black organic soot).

    How to use the ointment:

    Witches used to spread it...
    -over their temples
    -under their armpits
    -over their vagina
    -just behind their ears
    -over their neck
    -over the interior part of their forearm
    -over the left part of their stomach
    -over their calves
    -and under their sole (of the feet).

    NEVER spread any on your forehead (risk of death).

    I would suggest starting with only the temples & armpits (very suitable areas for transdermal absorption).

    Note that the calves & sole are for producing a feeling of flight (I don't know about other areas specificties).

    NOTE (!!) that there is a more elaborated preparation (and probably SAFER) for the ointment explained in castaneda's books (in "The Teachings of don Juan" or "A Separate Reality", I don't remember which one exactly)...

    I never tried any ointment myself: I only tried 60 seeds orally, and as it didn't produce any hallucinations and was so damn unpleasant, then I just stopped experimenting with it, but many reliable books about shamanism and entheogens I read do claim that making an ointment is the safest way to go if one would want to get hallucinations from solanaceae plants, and they say that oral use is just too risky (the ointment is the shaman & witches method so I just trust it).

    Always keep in mind that there is no "safe" datura trip. This is a VERY dangerous drug. Be careful.
    HAVE a trip-sitter !!! (you won't be able to control yourself)




    WHY IS THERE SO BIG NOISE ABOUT DATURA USE ?

    1)because the effect is more like toxik than hallucinogen, it's not much enjoyable (you feel sick, no ophoria effect at all, you vomit, your eyes can't see clear so you can't read anything even if it's writen in big letters, your mouth is completely dry, so you drink a lot but you can't piss anymore, your body temperature rise and you may get feverish (!), so does your blood pressure, your heart rythm become faster, your in complete delirium so you don't understand anything of what's happening around you, you don't realize that your hallucinations aren't real so you don't even have fun hallucinating because you don't know you are, and you almost don't remember your night on the next day,
    the only "fun" thing is that later on you can remember "well last night I was really fucked up and I had real hallucinations, I don't remember much of all this, I didn't have fun doing this, but now it's really fun to think about how fucked up I was".
    Also unpleasant because the delirium state can last for 3 days (yess with dry mouth and inability to piss...) and then there is an additional period of 3days-1 week you cannot see clear (you can't read) because your eyes are still fucked up.
    Note that regular use both fuck up your mental and your body (serious consequences!)...and by the way, there have been a few people who stayed stuck into their trip for month after one single use.

    My point is that datura isn't for fun, it has nothing to do with a recreational drug, the only use of interest could be visionary shamanic practices, and even in this case I would rather take something else (shrooms, peyote, salvia are both much more fun and much more safe than datura)

    2) because there have been GREAT amount of death with this plant for many reasons:

    -dosages can vary greatly from one people to another . for instance, one would need 30 seeds to hallucinate while another would need around 150-200 ! if someone (who would need no more than 30) had no experience with datura and was told by a friend (who successfully used 200) that 200 is the right dose, he may probably die (overdose from heart attack or overheating)
    You have to start with low dose (30 seeds at first) and increase progressively (wait 3 days between each trials).

    -plant potency can vary greatly from one plant to another, depending on the growing location, the subspecies, the harvesting period...for instance, green fruits of solanaceaes are said to be much much more potent than mature fruits... (so even if you know your dose with one plant you've tried, it can be different with another one)

    -different parts of one single plant can have very different potency. Better use seeds because their potency doesn't vary much.

    -because people don't know that shamans and witches who used datura for centuries all used to take datura transdermally (absorption through the skin in form of a fat cream) and almost never used it orally
    Why? because there are two different active drugs in datura : atropine wich is very toxik and a little hallucinogenic, and scopolamine wich is very hallucinogenic and less toxic than atropine. So the one you want is scopolamine only. The problem is that if you use datura orally, you get both in your body, unless you use it transdermally because only scopolamine can pass through the skin (atropine will stay out of your body this way).

    -because people are so delirious that they kill themselves making stupid things (like swimming in such a delirious state, or passing through a window...)

    -because people arent' aware of drug interactions and contraindications:
    you must never use datra if any cardiovascular troubles, if glaucoma, if on antidepressants.
    you must never mix datura with any medecine or drugs (even weed is said to be a bad idea !) because this could rise your blood pressure so hard that you would die.

    -also note that doing any physically exhausting activity (such as dancing at a rave) can be dangerous on datura (risk of rise in cardiac rythm(& blood pressure) or rise in body temperature wich are both already much higher than normal when you're on datura)

    So : read ALL informations .nu AND erowid.org before considering about trying such a dangerous toxic plant!!! Edited by: genaro
     
    1. 4/5,
      Good guide on how to stay safe
      Jan 19, 2017
    2. 3/5,
      Thank you so much for the info. I think I'll pass on this one.
      Nov 27, 2014
    3. 3/5,
      Thank you! I'd never known about the witches ans shamans using it.
      Oct 10, 2012
    4. 3/5,
      the teachings of don juan is a fictional book, but good post anyways
      Aug 29, 2012
    5. 3/5,
      Very informative read, could potentially save someone's life.
      Sep 7, 2010
    6. 3/5,
      Very informative, thank you for putting this information up, it will help many curious parties save themselves a lot of trouble and even death.
      Jul 6, 2010
    7. 3/5,
      Amazing Datura Info man, good read.
      Mar 18, 2009
    8. 3/5,
      very informative
      Nov 28, 2008
  2. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    SmokedDATURA STRAMONIUM flowers(aka "Jimson weed") REPORT:

    2 years ago during the summer I found a sunny field covered of mature Datura strammonium plants.
    There were both "purple stem" and "green stem" datura strammonium strain on this field. I collected flowers, let them dry, and stored them (dried flowers are 5-6 cm long)

    This morning I decided to smoke some. I finely crushed almost 1g of these, added some tobacco to it, and smoked it as a (big) joint. Each toke was kept in the lungs for 5-10 seconds. The taste was OK.
    I found it to produce a mild high. The effect lasted for 30min to 1h (more like 40min).
    I was feeling light headed and slightly anaesthesied/relaxed with maybe some slight ophoria (happiness feeling).
    There was a short slight headache after 30 min.
    The high somewhat reminded me of when you're laying on some beach with the sun on your face so you feel light headed and sleepy at the same time.
    But there was no "stoning" as with marijuana... and no hallucinations/visuals like with oral/transdermal datura use.
    No pupils dilatation, I experienced slightly increased heart beat & blood pressure (but less intense than when smoking lots of marijuana), slightly dry mouth (much less than after smoking some marijuana).
    The good point was that smoking datura would not produce any unpleasant side effects such as the dry mouth/inability to piss/blurred vision you get when using it orally (which is dangerous).

    If one can get some powerful datura spp. flowers, then maybe it could be nice to mix it with tobacco and marijuana (to potentialise the marijuana high).
     
  3. Softrat

    Softrat Newbie

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    The two main active principles in Datura are Scopoloamine and atropine. Even if one of these can not cross the skin in the ointment I doubt that would make much difference in Safety as they are both highly toxic. So unless the ointment method is excluding some addition compounds, and it may, I don't know if it would make much a difference as far as safety is concerned relative to an oral prep.


    Also I wouldn't depend on on information you find in a Castenada book. The man was shown to be a hack and a fraud many years ago.
     
  4. sunyata

    sunyata Gold Member

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    Scopolamine is supposed to be more toxic than atropine.


    Genaro: Can you write a little bit more about the dangers of combining Datura and Cannabis? The reason I ask is because swim sometimes add crushed Brugmansia leaves and flowers to his cannabis. He adds very little,0.1-0-5g in a couple of hits. He's found that it potentiates cannabis considerably, the only downside being that you get a lot more hung-over/tired the following day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2006
  5. KYLESUCKS

    KYLESUCKS Newbie

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    I haveacouple questions


    Is there any way to extract and purify the tropane alkaloids? i've also never heard that atropine is more toxic than scopolamine, is there a source for this information?


    Is there a serious risk with using a tea? almost all of the reports ive read of datura use involve a tea or some other oral method. an ointment sounds like more trouble than its worth.Edited by: KYLESUCKS
     
  6. allyourbase

    allyourbase Palladium Member

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    YES THERES A SERIOUS RISK. this is a deleriant, and whats more extremely toxic. not only could you go crazy and kill yourself(or get yourself killed) due to delerium, but your body could almost certainly SHUT DOWN many necessary functions. DO NOT CONSUME DATURA.
     
  7. Daeron

    Daeron Platinum Member & Advisor

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    yeah allyourbase is right,avoid datura at all costs.I had a few exp. with it and he will remember them as long as he lives.The trip is not worth it,you wont remember the half of it,and the other half will be hell.Swim even thinks thatdatura trip isnt a trip at all,it is more like a hallucination filled im on a verge of dying type ofpoisoning Edited by: daeron
     
  8. Fistfulofdust

    Fistfulofdust Newbie

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    I had familiarized himself with the effects of Datura through
    smoking it, but oral ingestion caused extreme discomfort anyway.



    Most people aren't going to enjoy this because they aren't ready. I
    would say that you'd need an extreme amount of devotion to the
    spiritual connections between man and drug, and years upon years of
    psychadelic experience to appreciate Datura.
     
  9. panchovilla

    panchovilla Newbie

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    What type of Datura did you use? People always just say Datura; I think it would be important to know which species of Datura you are FOOLING with atleast. I agree that it is not wise to orally consume any type of Datura. I have consumed tiny amounts of tea (Datura metel)and it did nothing, and my friend drank the whole damn pot the entire time trying to persuade me to join in his folly. He was fucked up for a week in a bad way, and no parts of his experience were pleasurable as he testified.
     
  10. BrugmansiaBrujo

    BrugmansiaBrujo Titanium Member

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    Extracting alkaloids from datura and then consuming them would be more
    foolish than just consuming datura tea or seeds, or just using the herb
    to make the salve.



    And it is completely unnecessary, as datura is pelnty potent, even
    deadly, on it's own without the concentration that extracting alkaloids
    would provide.



    Do yourself a favor and stop thinking about extracting datura
    alkaloids. There are plenty of other good plants worthy of your
    chemistry experiments, please leave datura out of any extraction
    thoughts/experiments.
     
  11. Demonslayer

    Demonslayer Titanium Member

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    Extracting datura can be done by simple water extraction, but as noted, it results in an extract that is dangerously strong. I made an extract from datura stramonium, approx 200 seedpods, and boiled this down to a solid extract the size of a golfball. As you can imagine, it is very easy to miscalculate the dosage without an accurate weight. Extracting atropine from this extract would result in a substance that is even harder to dose.


    And btw, datura is not that much fun.
     
  12. DaturaJoe

    DaturaJoe Newbie

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    SWIM though about extracting tropanes from datura (or belladonna,
    mandrake, henbane or other), then dose it to know exactly how much
    there is, and then dilute it, or dilute it before measuring it out...
    The aim is having (or making) a mixture with a known content in
    alkaloids... I know that tropanes (and moreover these tropanes) are
    really dangerous, but as SWIM really want to try it, I am looking
    for the safer way of getting it (of course, SWIM won't smoke or ingest
    his extract, SWIM let it for stupid men)
     
  13. Grautr

    Grautr Silver Member

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    the military (the British army at least) uses atropine shots called combi pens as an antidote to nerve gas poisoning. In a situation where there is a likelyhood of British soldiers being gassed they are issued with 3 combi pens each. These are one shot, use and throw away, syriges. So yes atropine is extractable but how its done I dont know.
     
  14. lucas

    lucas Newbie

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    please forgive my english, it is not my first lenguage


    i toke the datura candida, named florifundia in my country, a week ago, and was a dark and deep experience. I followed a ritual to take it. i will share it with you.


    first, i tolke with the tree, that is mostly like talk with myself, with respect, and i demand a guide. then i toke two flowers, put them into hot water for 5 minuts, i just make a tea. Then i wait that the temperature coming down, an drink all the 0.5 lts. and ateone flower. After 20 minutes, or maybe less, the experience start. I try to walk, but i did not walk normaly, everythingwas change. The voices beging to coming from all the place, and a strange energy becomes from my hands, then from everything. Aftertwo hours, i dont rememberanythinuntil fivehours later, afortunatly, my brother took a video andisaw myself like a very crazy one, talkin with walls, willows,doors. i in fact were talking with my little dougther, wich wasnt there. after thisfive hours,ihad recovered my memory, andi keep seing people. Onething funy was the photograf of my grandmother and her brothers, shaking thehands and talkin betweenabout me, smiling. i am not realy sure, but wasthe only thing fun.


    I remain with theeyesdilated for four days, in thes four daysidid notread nothing. But the panoramic vision waswondering.


    I learn from this experience that the percepcion of real is determinateby the comunication of the braincells, andtheese comunications can be alterate permanently by the use of many things.the way you seeand understand the world depends from them.
     
  15. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    Atropine/ scopalamine are DELIROGENS rather than psychedelics. As Lucas's experinces show, you are deleriuous rather than high. A friend of mine took the atropine from a brand of 'flu medicine-- the effect was the same. He complained that his folks nearly commited him to a mental institution.
     
  16. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    I would like to stress that Datura is very dangerous material and anyone who wants to fool around with extracted datura may be playing with his/ her life.
     
  17. Dogears

    Dogears Newbie

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    I did datura once when I was a kid. The experience was interesting in retrospect, but not fun while under it's influence. I never tried it again.
     
  18. farmer

    farmer Newbie

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    I tried brugmansia twice, the first time was fun, I ate two big flowers and after two hours of getting more ill and feverish the weerd feeling began, like the world was fading away and was reshaped in an unreal world. Then I went outside, cause i worried my mother too much, the power in my musscles had gone and my short time memmory as well, but I managed to get at the door, when I was finally outside, the halucinations began(whispering sounds, moving shadows, gosts, I eve saw some lions lying on the grass and a wolf who ran vividly towards me when I stood on the street, I felt no fear of them) after an hour or two there where no halucinations anymore, so i went to bed, i had to piss allthe time, and the weird feeling was still there, so it took som time before i slept.
    the next day i felt fine, besides the cottonmouth and the blurred vision.
    The second time I tried it I took the same amount of flowers, ate them , and after two hours, the weird feeling began, but this time accompanied with a terrible sense of fear, I hardly halucinated that night(I saw a few moving black spots)and did not want it, cause it frightened me awfully.
    The next day, this sense of fear was still there, it remained a few days. Even a few months later I could feel this fear when thinking back about tose experiences
    Now, six months later I am thinking of trying it again, maybe on the "safe" way.
    now was my question, does the risk on a bad trip increase, when You have had one already?(is this also the case with psilocibine mushrooms?)
     
  19. Mick Mouse

    Mick Mouse Live Free Or Die! Gold Member Donating Member

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    shown by who, may I ask?
     
  20. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Let's not start the Castenada True or False debate here. Please stay on topic. Start a new thread if you wish to repudiate/glorify Carlos.

    Thank you.