1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Depression & dopamine depletion after quitting methamphetamine

Discussion in 'Amphetamines addiction' started by xxNikkixx, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. xxNikkixx

    xxNikkixx Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Swim has been a meth addict on & off for 12 or so years. Swim has also tried quitting & has made it as many as 4 straight months clean. However, when ever swim isn't doing speed, the depression & suicidal tendencies are unbearable. Is this normal? Has anyone else had this or something similar? Is it avoidable? Because to be honest, its better to remain a drug addict than to commit suicide, no?
     
  2. izzy31

    izzy31

    Reputation Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2006
    Messages:
    458
    Re: Depression?

    YES!!! SWIM used to do meth everyday for quite awhile, and ICE quality too. SWIM hasn't done meth in a couple months and feels HORRIBLE. He uses cannabis to help ease the psychological void. It WILL NOT CURE IT, but as SWIY said, the depression and suicidal feelings are unbearable.
     
  3. y0ssarianlives

    y0ssarianlives Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    159
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    72
    Re: Depression?

    SWIM was a speed addict for many years, and is still now recovering from the mental toll the drug took on SWIM's mind. Yes, what SWIY is experiencing is normal. It will take time for the depression and suicidal thoughts to pass. Please, get in to see a psychiatrist and tell them what SWIY is experiencing because of SWIY former drug use and they will present medical options available to help SWIY recover from the damage speed did to your brain. Spare no details about SWIYS former drug use if you go in to see one; it will help them determine what course of action to take. It's literally physical damage to SWIYS brain from the extreme nuerotoxicity of amphetamines that causes SWIYS current state of mind.

    It will take time, but it will heal. SWIM can attest to that. It has been nearly 10 months since SWIM took a dose of amphetamines and he is just now beginning to get over the psychosis that has vastly affected his life and mind from speed use.

    It's worth it though, please don't go back to it. SWIY will only sink deeper into the pit of despair.

    Good luck
     
  4. xxNikkixx

    xxNikkixx Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Re: Depression?

    Thank you for your responses, it is much appreciated! However, swim finds no benefit from marijuana, it doesn't help the depression at all.

    As for seeing a psychiatrist, that doesn't seem an option, as swim has no medical insurance and is unable to afford the costs & the state won't help. Swim is in over her head.
     
  5. Ohboy

    Ohboy

    Reputation Points:
    72
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Re: Depression?

    Meth is extremely dopamine enhancing. It causes the brain to release floods of dopamine. To some extend, it acts as a DARI, so it keeps the dopamine in the synapses for a long time.
    After repeated long-term use, the brain begins to shutdown dopamine receptors, so when a swimmer is off meth, there is very little dopamine left in brain and she gets depressed. At this point, she actually has a chemical imbalance in her brain. With no dopamine in areas like the temporal lobe, it affects emotional stability. With it missing in places like the striatum, there is impaired mental function. Basically, the swimmer cannot think or feel. Everything is cold and grey.
    Over time the brain can replace depleted dopamine, but it is not designed to do it quickly. It might be possible to help it along, though. Try things that stimulate dopamine production. Start with the physical - EAT! Eat lots of whole foods...meat, eggs, dairy, even bananas. These have tyrosine, which the body converts to dopamine.
    Exercise - Dopamine is used in movement. Doesnt have to be strenuous, but keep moving. Walking, cleaning, moving things.
    Try to get the brain to make more dopamine by stimulating its manufacture. Listen to favorite music, find pictures or movies of nature. Colorful rolling hills, pretty birds, waterfalls might help. Water is very healing.
    Even things like chocolate and sex might help stimulate the brains production of dopamine.
    Dont give up. It seems worse than it is. Weaker people than swiy have pulled through this and so can swiy. Swiy'll feel Swiyself becoming stronger as time goes by. Dont be so quick to think swiy's only options are addiction or suicide. Theres a lot more than what swiy sees.
    If someone has the flu, they lie around a while feeling bad, then they get up and try to help make themselves better. Its now time to get up and help swiys mind make itself better.
    Hope this helps.
    Good luck
     
  6. Metomni

    Metomni Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    1,336
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    618
    Re: Depression?

    There are places you can go even if you don't have health insurance where they will look at your need and circumstances and get you help. Don't let that be the obstacle that puts you back into the addiction. SWIM has no experience with this addiction, but he can only imagine the despair it causes and pleads for you to get some help.

    Just google something like family counseling centers in the area that you live and look. There's help out there, you just have to go get it.

    Good luck friend. :)
     
  7. humdroid

    humdroid Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    723
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,019
    Re: Depression?

    SWIM was an amphetamine addict, not meth, but the sulphate version, otherwise known as base.
    Base caused SWIM's ankles to swell up, which possibly indicated SWIMS heart didnt like speed too much.
    SWIM isnt doing base anymore, but hears you, original poster, about your friend SWIM, and his depression.
    SWIM even feels too depressed to do base now, but has pondered, "heart attack while high" versus "wasted talent, poor opinion of humanity, and inability to deal with outside pressures"
    Of course, the life choice is always right, no matter how our friends, messrs SWIM, are convinced otherwise.
     
  8. ShaGoDNe

    ShaGoDNe Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    15
    The depression is a byproduct of the euphoria that you once felt, it is only natural that you saw heaven, now you must experience hell...
    With that said, many good suggestions have been made, albeit they might sound light and fluffy, do not under-estimate the benefit of doing something that you don't want to do even though you know it will help you... Movement from your depressive state will trigger inertia and once the ball is rolling there is no stopping you.
    Also, be aware of the neuro-transmitter damage done to the brain throughout use, and read up on amino-acids as they are the precursors to the neuro-transmitters activated &/or damaged...
    I would recommend investing in some Melatonin, Tyrosine & Tryptophan supplements... and perhaps gearing a diet around the depleted amino-acids... Don't forget about some Calcium as well eh??
     
  9. Regaining_My_Soul

    Regaining_My_Soul Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    REAL TALK HERE.

    SWIM was once a major cokehead. Feelings of hopelessness and sadness continue to linger 2.5 years later.
     
  10. humdroid

    humdroid Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    723
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,019
    T thinks that, T is a base addict.
    T dosent want to rely on base though.
    T is not on base at the minute and if he had the choice, he would rather be a non suicidal, non depressed non addict.

    humdroid added 2 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

    that's a comfort.
    swim dosent want to be assaulted with a suicidal weapon by swim in the meantime though.
    swim dosent want to take amphetamines either anymore.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  11. Canadian4Life

    Canadian4Life

    Reputation Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    110
    SWIM has used ecstasy and Meth alot in the past and always found taking amino acids like 5-htp and L-Tyrosine as well as a high dose b vitamin complex made him feel normal in only a few days. He doesn't suggest tasking them on METH but for recovering these things help alot!
     
  12. sykes

    sykes

    Reputation Points:
    11
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    403
    After repeated use, SWIM is experiencing mild depression (been feeling like this for a week now).
     
  13. antileet

    antileet Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    10
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    i usually fill my days with activities, positivity
    no reminders of my use, past, etc

    idle time is the devil's playground
     
  14. gotshakes

    gotshakes

    Reputation Points:
    -71
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Messages:
    35
    so is SWIY sure that it helps? as in how many other people would testify to this same thing?

    sorry for the skepticism but some would call that the placebo effect which is very strong and real
     
  15. J0hnk47

    J0hnk47 Newbie

    Age:
    54
    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Some sort of physical activity, such as walking or cycling, seems to help. Just 10 minutes or so as often as you can.
     
  16. Ronin1

    Ronin1 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Yes, I think people may not give excersise the correct value it deserves. It will get the brain juices moving, help with dopamine reproduction and clear that grey foggy feeling you have in your brain from being tired. It also helps the toxins in the body cycle out more productively, helps the heart with oxygen to all extremities and for the most part gets you out of the house. I strongly reccomend starting here for at least a week. I is free and will give you a baseline on where you need to go next.
     
  17. J0hnk47

    J0hnk47 Newbie

    Age:
    54
    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Something I highly recommend is to go out of your way to do things you have never done before, or wouldn't ordinarily do. Eat something you've never tasted. Go somewhere {near or far} that you've never been. Make a new friend, or say "Hello" to someone you've never met. Open new channels of thought, if even briefly, for your mind to stretch it's "legs".

    Do I have to point out that one should avoid new destructive behaviours?
    We'll never succeed without some intelligence and simple common sense.

    I plan on tearing down this prison I've built around me. I hope to someday know that I have suceeded.

    I'm only two weeks free now after 6 yrs daily/20 yrs 4 times or more a week. Walking, hiking two to three times a day. I'm not doing it alone and that may be what is saving me. Only time will truly tell.Thank-you for providing such a BS free forum.
     
  18. t1rex

    t1rex Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -14
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Messages:
    101
    The depression is due to the imbalance/lack of serotonine, dopamine an (nor)adrenaline. thats clear. 5-htp, a serotonine precursor, and some mentioned aminoacids like thyrosine and phenylanaline can help, but in addition to this swim made good experiences with some AD's. What first comes in mind is Buprobion, but Venlafaxine in small doses (10-30mg) was more helpful, even for swim. Next to Rc,s in the cathione or phenylethylamine way, those Ad,s are maybe the last resort...
    If healing without chemicals at all is wanted, sports like swimming (yes, water heals) are very effective. Good luck!
     
  19. Mick Mouse

    Mick Mouse Palladium Member

    Age:
    54
    Reputation Points:
    3,044
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,049
    Like the OP, I used meth for many, many years. The feelings he describes are a natural and unavoidable part of the process of healing the bio-psycho-social damage that excessive and/or extended use of meth (and to a lesser extent, any stimulant) causes. Bad news? It can, and often does, last up to 5 years. Good news? You can heal from it! How long it will take for you will depend on lifestyle choices. Eat well, take care of yourself physically and mentally, and you will heal faster than if you chip away on your habit, become a couch-potato, etc.

    It will come and go in waves. It might be bad for 3-6 months, then be almost not noticeable for a time, then it will come back. You will come to see that each time it does come back, it will not be quite as strong or last quite as long as it did the time before. It will still be a very difficult time-from start to finish-and many fail and go back to their addiction, die, etc.

    Research PAWS.
     
  20. Tech House

    Tech House Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    535
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    276
    Good advice about lifestyle and a few supplements has been given. Here is a summary of supplements I use for being "high" from dopamine/norepinephrine/serotonin/GABA on a daily basis:

    Dopa-mucuna extract (standardized to 15% L-Dopa): 1600-2400 mg
    theobromine: 500 mg
    l-tyrosine: 500-1000 mg
    rhodiola: 325 mg (standardized)
    hordenine: 50 mg
    curcumin: 1000 mg
    vitamin D3: 1000 mg
    B vitamin complex
    l-theanine: as needed and/or wanted
    phenibut: 300 mg at bed time for improved sleep
    giinkgo: 120 mg
    cat's claw: 400 mg
    green tea extract: 400 mg
    piracetam: 1000+ mg
    vinpocetine: 20 mg
    omega-3 oil supplement: 2000 mg

    Rather than post an entire article here I'll just say that you can research all the above, plus my comments below, online for yourself depending on what interests you.

    I purchase some of these in bulk and create custom blends based on what I am trying to achieve and the info I gather from research on each.

    The list above includes some selective MAO-B and non-selective reversible MAO inhibitors that I only take in the morning due to stimulant effects and my tendency to eat foods that contain tyramine for lunch and dinner (tofu, nuts, avocado and others.)

    Also included are precursors for the Big Four neurotransmitters, plus some mild stimulants (mild dopamine and/or NE releasing effects.)

    Nootropic properties of theobromine, phenibut, green tea extract, piracetam, vinpocetine, ginkgo and rhodiola are all helpful in healing the brain and making it sharper, although evidence is stronger for some than others and many would say I'm spending far too much money on this stuff. But I feel great, so I have no complaints.

    My feeling is that the use of supplements that help replenish lost dopamine and NE may help stem the waves of suicidal depression just enough to make a small difference, and that small difference might be the one between actual suicide vs. choosing life.

    As for being an addict vs. suicide, I'd probably go with suicide in the case of meth. Either way you're killing yourself, but if you're going to kill yourself you should do it in a way that is less painful and more intentional than the unpredictable course of dying via hard core drug use.

    Again, the lifestyle comments people have made are very important and I'm only adding the supplements to that as part of what may help; eating well, getting exercise, doing things that bring you some measure of happiness, connecting with people, being of service to others, all of this is more useful, in the long run, than taking supplements, but if you need something to get you through your days then take advantage of all the legal stuff that nature and chemistry provide.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012