Other - Dextromethorphan Legality

Discussion in 'DXM' started by serotonin, Jan 16, 2005.

  1. serotonin

    serotonin Newbie

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    I came across this the other day, and it answered alot of questions for me.DXM *use*, no matter where you obtained it, is *legal.*

    As most of you know, it is *explicitly* exempted from the Federal
    Controlled Substances Act (see USC 21:812(g)(2) as amended), EVEN THOUGH IT
    IS AN OPTICAL ISOMER OF A SCHEDULED OPIATE. The Analogue Act *does not apply
    to Dextromethorphan.* This is settled Law. No State, nor DC, nor PR, no any
    US Territory, with one exception, has placed any tighter *regulatorty*
    restriction on Dextromethorphan itself (Utah).

    There *are* Rx preparations of Dextromethophan as well as OTC ones, believe
    it or not. But this is common of many OTC drugs. In these cases, it is
    because it is either combined with other substances, is in amounts of 30mg
    per dose unit, or because it has been *marketed* that way under it's
    Supplmental New Drug Application to the FDA.

    Therefore, anyone can posses Dextromethorphan -- technically, regardless of
    age. Now the real question becomes, for some, if you have a kilo of DXM
    powder and you're walking down the street, what happens? Well, you are
    probably asking for trouble. In the end, will you get prosecuted? Maybe,
    maybe not. *Can* you be arrested? Well, you "shouldn't" .. Will you if a cop
    wants to arrest you? Most likely. Will it get confiscated, no matter how
    it's labeled, what you say, etc. -- yes. Will you eventually get it back?
    Probably. Will you wind up spending money on legal representation? most
    likely.
    For *all* substances (and remember, it's not up to YOU to decide that the
    DXM you have is treated as a "chemical" or a "drug" -- it's up to the
    authorities), have regulatory controls as to storage, labeling, and "intent
    of use."

    They would want to know just why in the HELL you are walking around with a
    bunch of powdered DXM if you weren't say, going to ... sell or share it
    (which, by the way, you CANNOT do, unless you are licensed to sell USP grade
    drugs in your state). Remember, when it comes to these regulations, the
    burden of proof falls to YOU to prove OTHERWISE.

    There is a possible contention for sharing it, but again, you're going to be
    doing that in court -- not on the street with the cop. So, we're talking
    about attorney's, time, and money. So, you basically lose the instant you
    are arrested, for all practical purposes.

    If you go selling DXM, or marketing it as a drug for human consumption in
    large quantites, it is illegal under Federal and *every* State's law. While
    the FDA has primary jurisdiction, the DEA *can* consider it "diversion" of
    an OTC drug, which they watch -- they watch diversion of *all* drugs for
    human consumption by cooperative agreement with the FDA. It only takes an
    Administrative Order. I can guarantee if you buy 500KG of DXM and go
    marketing it on the Internet as a drug for sale w/o proper licensing, you
    will get more attention that you ever wanted... the legal fees, time, and
    effort will be huge. Most likely, you'll be arrested locally, but not
    prosecuted in the end. But again, really, you lose just by being arrested.
    And of course, you will be fined in both State and Federal Court.

    Now, if it's in your house, that's another matter altogether. We all know
    the story about the guy in Texas. The police came in, found a rather large
    amount of DXM, and confiscated it, thinking it was something else. If I
    remember correctly, either cocaine or methamphetime. They arrested him for
    possesing and for intent to traffic a controlled substance. Then, they
    tested it, and wow... they not only had to let him go, they had to give it
    back. Ironically, a DEA agent TOLD the local police that it was DXM, because
    it was labeled as such and "somehow" the DEA "knew" where it came from. The
    Texas man is now suing the local police.

    But if you are under the influence of *any* intoxicant on a public street in
    most places, there are local ordinances that police can arrest you under for
    public intoxication, etc. They usually don't ask what you are "on." But if
    you have DXM powder on you, expect them to assume it's controlled, and
    charge you first. You're better off carrying around a bottle of syrup. Then,
    you're clear. They would assume it was for medicinal purposes. Anyone can
    carry over-the-counter medicine. In fact, they won't even notice.

    And in EVERY state, if you drive under the influence of *any* drug that
    affects your judgement and you have an accident, or the officer feels you
    are "under the influence" you can be arrested, and charged. This includes
    medicines prescribed by a doctor. Keep your mouth shut! You dont' have to
    say a word -- and don't. Even if your doctor prescribed a drug, you can
    still be put in jail (and they DO, because you shouldn't be driving if
    you're impaired on Valium, or antipsychotics, etc.). So, shut up if they ask
    you if you are on any prescription medication that might affect your
    judgement (unless they are taking you to jail and you need it for your
    health).

    As for these other "uncontrolled" and (legally) untested substances (the
    DIPTs, AMT, etc). While it's true that the DEA has not prosecuted anyone,
    it's because they don't consider any of these "a drug of concern." The NDIC
    statistics on users is less than 10,000. That doesn't even get the glance of
    anyone at the DEA. It *DOES* get the attention of some *STATE* agencies, if
    someone dies, or if several minors go to the hospital in a local area. In
    fact, in several states, there are currently movements to control some of
    these substances -- either through regulation or legislation (Missouri is
    one of these -- their Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs is considered
    one of the most aggresive in the Nation -- and that should be a WARNING --
    since Atty General Ashcroft is a PERSONAL FRIEND of the HEAD of that
    Department).

    Just FYI.. SAMSHA, the NDIC, and the Pharmaceutical Industry now puts the
    number of regular reacreational DXM "abusers" (they never use the term
    "user" bear in mind -- it's their word, not mine)... between 150,000 -
    200,000. And that IS getting people's attention. That Pharmaceutical's
    Manfr's medical divisons have had many calls from users themselves, trying
    to find treatment centers -- and so have treatment centers, federal agencies
    (from SAMSHA to the Surgeon General), state agencies, local agencies. That
    is a HUGE number, btw. It is higher than Ketamine, PCP, and most designer
    drugs combined. However, the reaction to this is NOT regulation, but
    treatment (quite enlightened).. It appears that the powers that be know they
    have to keep DXM freely available, but they are going to have one HELL of a
    problem on their hands if everyone screams for treatment... particularly
    since the industry knew of the "psychoative effects" of DXM since it's
    creation and didn't fully disclose.

    The "demonize GHB and Ketamine" movement started in Missouri and New York."
    Again, if you are on the street with TFPP, or 5MEO-DIPT, do you REALLY
    expect some cop to have a clue? or listen to you? can you? no. They may or
    may not have a kit to test it, and even if the test kit comes up "unknown"
    they will likely confiscate it, depending on where you are, your attitude,
    and what you were doing to get their attention, etc. Best idea, keep it in
    your house, especially in larger quantites. Keep it out of sight. Remember,
    if they come into your house on a medical call, they have "probable cause"
    to take action on *anything* "in plain sight" now.

    *I* have had problems with this, and I have a Controlled Substance License.

    Best advice. If you purchase DXM Powder. 1)When it arrives, PRINT a label
    with the NDC (National Drug Code) and put it on the Bottle. The NDC is:
    37097-300-26. 2) DO NOT carry a bag of it around with you. 3) If you need to
    walk around, do your mix, and mix it with some syrup, and carry it in a
    bottle (live with it).

    Know that DXM's federal legal status CANNOT be changed under the "Emergency
    Scheduling Act of 1984." It, unlike any other drug, can only be changed by
    legislation amending the Controlled Substances Act. This isn't going to
    happen, folks. Trust me, I've been to conferences with all of the current
    marketers of DXM. It might become what is known as "Behind the counter," a
    rare type of status. It can be done by making it Schedule V. But it is
    usually done with an FDA Advisory instead. You have to ask for it at the
    counter, and sign for it, with ID. This is what is done in Utah, voluntarily
    (so not everyone has to do it, yet).

    It used to be that most OTC drugs were this way... in fact, that's what
    "Over the Counter" means. It is a "legal term" that comes from the older
    drug laws. Pharmacies used to be set up where you went up to the counter and
    the Pharmacist got practically every drug for you, so she/he could counsel
    you. This is the way it still is in many countries. In fact, most
    pharmacists would like it this way, and it would be safer for the public
    (but it would make OTC drugs much more expensive and less convenient -- no
    24 Wal Mart asprin).

    The only "legal" problem is really for some of the distributors of these
    "quasi-status" drugs.-- and DXM. It is questionable whether they are
    actually selling them as chemicals or drugs. But that is not the Customer's
    legal concern. Again, settled law. It may mean, that someday, one will order
    from their favorite supplier and it will be gone. And don't kid yourself.
    The "powers that be" know all about every one of these suppliers -- they
    just aren't a concern for them as yet. Although, since several have been
    implicated in *knowingly* selling massive quantites of "adulterants" to
    *known* Ecstacy labs, that may be an issue to come. (no, no names, don't
    ask, not even in email).

    -- Rob, PhD, Pharmaceutical Chemistry; PharmD,
    Forensic Chemistry Consultant; MSc, Pharmacolog</PRE>[from here]</PRE>
     
  2. unico_walker

    unico_walker Newbie

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    Prescription only in the US within 3 years, now people have been saying this since 99' but hear out my evidence.



    1. two studies recently completed, one claimed theobromine a component
    of coffee was more effective then DXM. Where this came from I have no
    idea, there was no literature that indicated theobromine was effective
    on coughs before this, and with the time its been known and out there
    you would think it would have been discovered. Another study concluded
    DXM was no more effective then sugar syrup ,this flies in the face of
    established science about DXM NMDA antagonism, I think everyone here
    can agree DXM is more effective then sugar [​IMG].

    Then there was a parents group filing a class action lawsuit seeking
    damages for being scammed by the pharm companies all these years buying
    sugar water, the AP blurb was a standard $500 paid blurb.



    Someone needs to find out who backed these studies financially,
    additionally I get the feeling the parent group had a financial backer
    or ulterior motives in their lawsuit, It was simply filed to get public
    exposure of the study and to get people to associate cough syrup=ripoff
    in their minds.



    2.DXM ER visits have shot up in the last few years, Its getting to the level where it will not be ignored(see GHB).



    I'm convinced these studies were backed by someone with the motive of transitioning DXM off the OTC market.

    This is the same thing happening with pseudo-ephedrine, Sudfed has
    already replaced it and the other companies and generics will follow.

    When no OTC exists containing it, there will be no valid medical use boom scheduled.

    Wyleth will introduce a theobromine syrup soon,Robitussin Etra Power
    whatever. Once DXM is transitioned off the OTC market no reason not to
    move it to schedule III.

    The only reason this didn't happen faster and is going slowly in
    transition form is that the big pharmcos have a lot of legal and
    financial clout.
     
  3. Curtains

    Curtains Silver Member

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    I don't think it will move to schedule 3 that quickly, cause you figure the majority of users get their DXM from either robo or triple c's....if DXM is taken off the market in OTC medinces there will be a HUGE decline in usage, since the only people that really no how to get pure are those of us who do research on the internet and belong to a community like us.
    pseudo-ephedrine is different becuase there is a large effort to stop the production of methamphetamine, and DXM is not like that