1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

difference between tar and powder

Discussion in 'Heroin' started by JaWill88, Aug 30, 2007.

  1. JaWill88

    JaWill88

    Age:
    28
    Reputation Points:
    131
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    629
    all SWIM gets is black tar. SWIM has never even seen powdered heroin except in pictures. powder just isn't around much in washington and west side of the states i guess. SWIM knows it takes way more tar than it would powder. lets say SWIY has pretty much pure tar and pretty much pure powder. what would the difference be in dosages?
     
  2. crystalx

    crystalx

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    HUGE HUGE HUGE differences. Tar = opium. Heroin = opium + tons of chemical processess and cleaning, to strengthen the tar. 1 gram of tar might give the same feeling as a SMALL bump of H.

    If you're dying to try H but can't find it, look for OxyContins (a perscription painkiller) and bump like 30-40mg at once. It'll hit you faster than tar and give you a much much more euphoric feeling. After this, you will NEVER EVER enjoy opium, so be sure you wan't to ruin tar before you become addicted to H ;)
     
  3. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    Black tar is still heroin, it is not opium.

    Mexican organizations used less-refined morphine and also substituted primary chemicals in the synthesis, this is why black tar has its appearance and is of lower quality than powder heroin.

    Does SWIY really find Oxycodone in the UK? This is very very rare.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2007
  4. crystalx

    crystalx

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    By Oxcodone, do you really mean Oxycontin? And no, I guess you're right, SWIM doesn't find OCs in the UK; he has to get them shipped in from the states when he used to be addicted to them.

    If one reads how to make heroin from opium, you'll see the "black tar" is really either opium itsself or some barely-refined opium. Black tar does not equal heroin. although many people believe it does do the same thing, heroin is so much stronger it's really a joke. SWIM has snorted heroin and smoked black tar several times within days of doing each other and is sure around 1gram of black tar eaten will produce effects similar to that of 1 small line of H; don't expect to fade back and have a full body orgasm, but definitely expect to feel chilled out and euphoric.

    If SWIY is looking for codiene in the UK rather than oxycontin, that shit is more readily available in the Uk than any other country in the world.
     
  5. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    1) Oxycontin IS controlled release oxycodone. Oxycontin is a BRAND name

    2) Black tar is infact, heroin.

    Does SWIY have any sort of source, or citation saying black tar is opium, no SWIM thinks not.

    Does SWIY really snort the UK heroin, this is infact very wasteful as it is in base form. Snorting is very ineffective. It is meant for smoking. It can be injected but must be dissolved in a weak acid such as citric acid, or ascorbic acid first.

    Is SWIY aware that codeine phosphate is a prescription only drug in the UK? Unless in paracetamol/codeine preperations of 500mg/8mg respectively?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2009
  6. crystalx

    crystalx

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    1) when I say OCs, I mean a highly concentrated form of oxycodone. I have never ever seen any other form of concentrated oxycodone than in an OxyContin pill (or it's generic version). Please let me know if there are other ways this drug is sold as I have never heard of them.

    2) Black tar is infact, the cheapest form of heroin ever. Wikipedia says it's the most common form of H in the USA, but I find that hard to image as this black tar is like a tease compared to pure H. it's like they made opium, decided they wanted to try and make H, and then was like "screw this" after they realized they just wanted to sell it quick and make money.

    Sources? SWIM will use his last 10 years of world-wide experience as a source.
     
  7. crystalx

    crystalx

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    14
    Here, this might help:

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Another form of heroin known as "black tar" is available in the western United States. Black tar heroin, which is produced only in Mexico, may be sticky like roofing tar or hard like coal, and its color may vary from dark brown to black. The color and consistency of black tar heroin result from the crude processing methods used to manufacture heroin in Mexico. Black tar heroin is often sold on the street in its tar-like state at purities ranging from 20 to 80 percent. It is most frequently dissolved, diluted, and injected.[/FONT]
     
  8. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    What??? SWIY has just proved my point exactly. It is because of crude manufacturing process that black tar heroin is what it is, and it is exactly that HEROIN! Not opium! SWIY has contradicted himself again. Please stop spreading misinformation.

    "you'll see the "black tar" is really either opium itsself or some barely-refined opium"

    "The color and consistency of black tar heroin result from the crude processing methods used to manufacture heroin in Mexico"

    There are instant release oxycodone available. I think SWIY really needs to do his homework before posting again here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2007
  9. Tortoise

    Tortoise

    Reputation Points:
    135
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Swiy does realise that heroin, once eaten converts into morphine before entering the bloodstream, therefore is wasteful if eaten?
     
  10. jerbles

    jerbles

    Reputation Points:
    -5
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    199
    wow crystalx... you really don't seem very smart, as you did totally just disprove what you were trying to prove. Black tar is just shitty heroin, really, but it's a lot cheaper than "pure h" or powders, such as China White, so when it comes down to it, you pretty much get the same amount of heroin. Also, while China White is usually, say, 70% heroin, the other 30% is just cut. Black tar however, might be 30% heroin, but the other 70% is other opiates left over from the opium, rather than just cut. There usually is a little cut in black tar, but it's harder to do as it is black tar.
     
  11. Psych0naut

    Psych0naut Platinum Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,273
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,276
    Black tar heroin is acetylated opium. Heroin is made by acetylating morphine with acetic acid anhydride. If this is done on pure morphine, extracted from opium, than one ends op with powder heroin. If this is done with opium, without purification of the morphine, one ends up with a product that looks pretty similar to the starting product, opium, which is black tar heroin. Really nasty stuff to inject, since it unrefined and so still contains all the plant material.
     
  12. Tortoise

    Tortoise

    Reputation Points:
    135
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    285
    Thanks Psychnaut. That is a perfect explanation!
     
  13. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    I was always under the impression that it wasn't acetylated opium just that the morphine was less refined before acetylation, producing the gummy consitancy.
     
  14. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    I just got a definition from wikipedia.

    "Mexican drug syndicates were producing heroin by the mid-1960s. Lacking the experience in chemistry that other syndicates had gained through years of illicit heroin production, Mexican organizations used less-refined morphine and also substituted primary chemicals in synthesis"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2009
  15. Psych0naut

    Psych0naut Platinum Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,273
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,276
    Black tar heroin is often sticky because it still contains all the plant fats, and it also often looks the same as opium, that's because it's just acetylated opium. It is sometimes partially refined, but it's usually in the form of sticky, gummy tar, unrefined, acetylated opium. Here are some pictures of black tar heroin:
    heroin_tar__i2006e0997_disp.jpg
    heroin4.jpg
    heroin_tar__i2005e1425_disp.jpg
    The last one looks like it has been somewhat refined, though it still has the concistency of tar. The reason black tar heroin sticks together is because it still contans the gummy plant fats, heroin made from refined morphine is a powder.
     
  16. jerbles

    jerbles

    Reputation Points:
    -5
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    199
    Swim always has trouble cooking black tar as it doesn't dissolve too good in water. it has to be boiled a lot, and SWIM figures he's losing dope when he boils it. Plus, there's always shit floating on top of the liquid, and swim has a hard time sucking it up in the syringe as the filter gets clogged up fast (he usually has to use two filters).

    Is there a better way to cook it down?
     
  17. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    Maybe SWIY should try using a little bit of citric acid or vitamin C, are these available at SWIY's needle exchange?
     
  18. Psych0naut

    Psych0naut Platinum Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,273
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,276
    As I mentioned, black tar heroin often still contains all the plant fats, and other plant material, which doesn't dissolve. Fats always float on top of water and are insoluble, fortunenately. This is why one has to filter it.
     
  19. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

    Age:
    36
    Reputation Points:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    988
    I agree that all heroin should be filtered with a proper filter. Unless its pharmaceutically pure diamorphine. The powder heroin that dominates most of the European market is not water soluble and must be dissolved in a mild acid first. Surely this will help break down SOME impurities in tar aswell..

    SWIM thinks a mild acid will help the tar dissolve a little better than just heating it in water as mentioned above, it will be my no means perfect but hopefully not waste AS much of the tar.
     
  20. jerbles

    jerbles

    Reputation Points:
    -5
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    199
    SWIJ has been very stupid before and not filtered his tar (only about 3 times) because he didn't want to waste any in the filter (the filter always comes out black from all the tar it's absorbed, and swij hates thinking he might be wasting some of it). This was very dumb, as the shot contained all sorts of particles which is not only very bad for the veins, but also the heart and everything in general.