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Effects - DMT vs. Salvia?

Discussion in 'DMT and Ayahuasca' started by chazsaysrelax, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. chazsaysrelax

    chazsaysrelax Silver Member

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    I have never done DMT, but is very interested in trying it. He has lots of experience with Salvia, and based on what he's read in this forum the effects sound quite similar, including:

    -kaleidoscopic visions in lower doses
    -fully immersive trips, seeing/visiting other worlds
    -complete destruction of the self, mind, and ego
    -loss of perception of physical body

    Though these effects obviously vary from person to person, I was wondering how they compare with each other. Have any experienced you's out there heard anything about it?
     
  2. helikophis

    helikophis Newbie

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    They experiences are quite similar, in certain ways, but very different in others. This is probably not the most helpful way to put it, but it's a bit like they are photographic negatives of one another. Or to put it another way -they both represent the light spectrum, but they do it in different ways - the Sage's world is the black and white, full reflection and full absorption; while DMT's world is a prismatic rainbow, a complete transmission separated into its component parts.
     
  3. cra$h

    cra$h Palladium Member

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    I can dig the light spectrum analogy. A little rough to comprehend, especially to the inexperienced. But with such an unexplainable experience, it's impossible to paint the full picture
     
  4. EntheogenicTruth

    EntheogenicTruth Silver Member

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    I found the separate drugs different in that DMT expanded his mind and made it able to perceive things that it would not normally be able to perceive.
    I found that in comparison salvia twisted his mind into a different way of thinking about what he could already perceive to the point where his mind was elsewhere (metaphorically speaking).
    then again this is only speakin' from swims limited experience with salvia.
     
  5. DonPeyote

    DonPeyote Silver Member

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    My Dog is thankful that Salvia came along when it did. After a 25 year hiatus from entheogens, out of the blue apperaed Salvia!!! My puppy tried it out. Salvia leaves, 5x, 10x, 20x.Not much happened. Then, at 20x, My Doggy felt kinda like he was on acid again, but weird, too weird. Alas, his mind was re-awakened to psychedelics. Next, Puppy orderd a gram each of aMT, and 5 MeO-DMT. The aMT was ok, although perhaps too long lasting, considering it's rather small tryptamine style reward. My dumb dog topped off his first day of aMT with a small hit of 5-DMT, and hit the million dollar jackpot with his first dollar! Afterwards, it was like Jody Foster in 'Contact'. My dog kept saying "I had no idea, I had no idea....

    As Golden Retreivers are very intelligent, my dog is thankful for salvia, as it led him out of his shell, and realized again the potential of the entheogenic spectrum.

    Woof woof for both salvia and the family of psychedelics, both known, and yet undiscovered.

    DP
     
  6. ishtar

    ishtar Newbie

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    DMT is a far more powerful psychedelic than Salvia. There's no debating that.

    I think if you're interested do some more reading - erowid
    Check out Pikhal and Tikhal (I know it's discussed in one of those)

    DMT trips are nothing to be taken lightly. I have no personal experience with them, but I do have a number of friends who are experienced with it, and it's hardly a party drug or something to mess around with. It'll launch you into another dimension, literally.

    If you track some down though, have fun!
     
  7. shockabargegnar

    shockabargegnar Newbie

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    in My experience DMT is a much more rewarding and euphoric than salvia. Maybe that's because every time I do salvia he gets super anxious and frantic and doesn't want to open his mind to the trip. DMT for swim can be awe inspiring at breakthrough dosages around 60 mg or more, some of the most unreal visuals I has ever seen. and with lower doses like 30 mg you could say it's more recreational and fun. I have always had positive experiences with dmt, swim wishes he could say the same for salvia, but I guess that's just me.
     
  8. Picatris

    Picatris Silver Member

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    Actually there is. It all depends on how you define psychedelic. Salvia and Salvinorin A (the active principle of Salvia Divinorum) are technically dissociatives, but they are also psychedelic (= mind manifesting). Salvinorin-A is active at the sub-miligram level, while DMT requires at least 20 mg for threshold effects. So salvinorin-A is stronger than DMT!

    Also the experiences albeit very different in nature the level of immersion for each compound is comparable. A strong DMT and salvia experience can catapult oneself to the outer bounds of reality, but DMT is certainly more visual. Much more visual, actually! Or so some of my friends have told me.
     
  9. Nothing to fancy

    Nothing to fancy Newbie

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    Salvia shouldn't even be compared to dmsters. They are both intense trips and last close to the same time, but Dmt is on another level. I have had some night (and day) ending DMT trips. On salvia halucinations are clearly not real. On DMT the reality of the trip can be confused with your own reality, which is really the heart of DMT. DMT may cause you to question whats real even after when you are sober.
     
  10. dty07

    dty07 Silver Member

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    I have had that on salvia as well. SWIM often finds himself coming to "realizations" on salvia that make no sense later, such as "this entire existence is fake and in fact nothing is real". Or he believes that the universe is but one floor of an infinite elevator shaft. DMT is much more rewarding than salvia in that sense because DMT trips tend to tell SWIM what he needs to know or what he needs to hear and are generally more insightful and meaningful. Salvia trips are certainly dissociative and intense but do not usually offer guidance or have any kind of real meaning, at least not in comparison to DMT.
     
  11. Widget

    Widget Mercury Member

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    its not that one or the other is stronger, salvia is an specific opioid antagonist (sharp pointy headed feeling in stead of painkilling agonist) and dmt is a powerful tryptamine, it is like a light enzyme that fully supports the rainbow, and synthetic dmt is made from indole, and indoles have been proven in research to cure cancer. I liken dmt to the force that keeps us alive, whereas lsd is more like when we die, the immeasurable lsd molecule breaking apart is what causes death. salvia and dmt have the same chlorophyll/flavanoid basis at least in the chacruna and chaliponga leaves are concerned. there is a dxm feeling dextrorotary element in the green part of these leaves that gets you high in a differant way that is probably lost to extraction, although the dmt remains, William S. Burroughs in the seventies said that "there is no synthetic yage I know of" and he's right, you can never recreate what happens with fresh herbs as opposed to any kind of extraction or synthesis. research in biochemistry has proven that you can never chemically ascertain the complete chemical constituants of any plant, try as you may. some herbs, like scotch broom, we can't put in tea, but can smoke. do differant types of vinegar yeild differant plant extraction results? there are all types of vinegar especially available online are the differant types of fruit vinegar. plant extractions should probably never be done with nasty solvent chemicals, its not aesthetically pleasing. as to the maois, dont you think you have less a chance of ruining your liver if you just take a bonghit instead of drinking it down into your gullett?
     
  12. Erumelithil

    Erumelithil Newbie

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    I would have to disagree. In SWIM's experience, hallucinations on Salvia have been incredibly real and immersive.
     
  13. EscapeDummy

    EscapeDummy Palladium Member

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    Excuse me? There's nothing to suggest that, whatsoever. In fact, salvia is active at much, much smaller doses than DMT. Different people have reported differing opinions on which is stronger. Either way, it's certainly up for debate.

    edit: to the repper, yes I am fully aware that active dose doesnt correlate to subjective experience. hence why I said "different people have opinions on which is stronger" that is, DMT and Salvia are very close in subjective experience intensity. The statement "DMT is a far more powerful psychedelic than salvia" is blatantly false.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  14. darkbreed

    darkbreed Newbie

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    I would say that from his experience salvia is quite similar in many ways to dmt. The similarity is mainly the "body rush", the short time of duration, and possible separations from "self". However, there is a unique difference between the two. Salvia seem to throw you into very random "external places", while DMT sends you into more "spesific" realms that are, so to speak, more "constant".

    In other words, from my experiene (15 years), Salvia is good for out of body experiences, astral projection, past life experiences etc, but also some "alien world" type of experience.

    DMT seem to be more "focused" on the "alien world" type of experience, and less on the out of body and astral projection.

    The physical sensations however, seem to be quite similar in many ways, and rather profound.
     
  15. cra$h

    cra$h Palladium Member

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    Not necessarily true. Swim's witnessed gods from Salvia, and has had very similar experiences with DMT. What it seems to come down to is what you submerge yourself in. If you become more spiritual with DMT, it will do you much better. Same with salvia. Swim and his buddy are living proof. It's hard to explain.

    The main difference is that DMT is a different style. Not a higher level, but more of a different one.
     
  16. Laszlo1

    Laszlo1 Newbie

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    Swim's never done DMT in any form, so can't speak to that, but he has done salvia a handful of times...

    His experiences w/ salvia tended to be more "woah" and less "hm..." by this ridiculous sentence, he means that salvia was just sort of crazy and weird and sometimes cool (though sometimes just too weird and crazy to be pleasant), but no matter the quality of the experience, swim never "took anything away from it"

    That being said, swim acknowledges everyone reacts/interprets differently, but I just wanted to contribute his experiences.

    Swim's heard GREAT things about DMT, though. If You gets an opportunity, swim'd say pursue it.
     
  17. dipmonk

    dipmonk Newbie

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    I have had multiple experiences with both, although with salvia it was mostly the tincture, not smoking. DMT is a clear favorite...never any weird sideways gravity effects or other bizarre physical sensations. Salvia trips were journeys away from reality, to bizarre places, and a dim sense of what reality was remained.
    DMT was another beast entirely. Utterly fantastic and explosive. I agree that one more often comes away from DMT with a sense of having touched deeper meanings, and that the places one goes with DMT seem to be more constant, more eternal, than the whacky salvia places.
    But one word of advice for DMT - best to do it while healthy - not hungover, angry, grieving, etc. On one such trip, not only was awareness of SWIM's body, self and the reality around it lost, but the understanding of what that meant was lost. I felt the concepts themselves drop out of existence until absolutely nothing was left except a pulsating white maze that was seen/felt. It would have been a scary experience for someone not prepared. So do it on a day when you're feeling good, and feed your brain some positive thoughts beforehand.
     
  18. xiaobendan

    xiaobendan Silver Member

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    I have never really broken through on DMT extracts but by God he made it through on 5 Meo DMT. However his 5meo experiences have never gotten past a very high dose psilocybin/mescaline type buzz(SWIM won't throw in LSD because he finds acid to be less physically pleasurable than natural tryptamines). So far 5meo has been good to SWIM and been very rewarding, however he does understand that there is a lot more to find out...(and note he has seen a few train wrecks on it, but thanks God he has always had more respect for it).

    Salvia, well salvia to him is more than death. One of the guys above said you always knew a salvia trip wasn't real, I think that man is very lucky he never made it as far as some of my lab rats. A brief run down of the scenario I was in maybe 6 years back.....

    ....I had consumed salvia many times while at university, but he never broke through. He only got that tightness one gets off salvia at the back of the ears, head, neck. Slight chasers with weed, all in all he thought SHITE!!.

    Fast forward a year of two he picks up 20x extract from some shop. Again the uncomfortable tightness thing, a feeling that if he broke through this substance may not be all that pleasurable came to mind( or did he just make up that memory after it all!!)

    Anyway after a lot of frustration he throws the hole vial into a gravity bong as you Americans call it. BANG! the first moment he thought "i'm dead", followed by many other thoughts of despair regret. He was sucked into the salvia dimension kinda like Neo in the matrix, it was that terrible. He looks at his legs then suddenly he becomes a road, experiences the sensations of cars going over him, and subjectively thinks he stays there until the ends of time. Permanent negation, the indestructibility of our particles, the realisation that our consciousness is infinite and indestructible like atoms. But the realisation that he had squandered those brief 21 years of physical existence hold heavy and he had eternity to lament his woes. After the infinity of that he meets an entity that is purely malevolent. All the memory's of that conversation are not all that clear. Anyway, real reality suddenly spews forth, flickers in like an old tv set. He can hear Simone and Garfunkel's song "old friend", the end part with the weird melancholic music that represents(in his mind) death about to embrace the friends. He jumps up off his friends sofa(he's in his mate garden shed that had been converted into a bedroom) his friends mother is out doing the washing in the garden. He screams "turn that fucking music off", his friend is like "there is no music". So he runs for the door, he is still flicking back and forth to the salvia dimension. His friend(huge bastard keeps him from running out to meet the mother.

    To summarize a very long winded report. 5 Meo DMT is the life force, Salvia is death and negation. To SWIM it is more than death because well he fears salvia more than death itself. Recently a friend asked SWIM about salvia, he said would you do it again. my reply " I would be more comfortable with suicide"

    Salvia, it's real, too God damn real.........PLAY SAFE
     
  19. ratatata

    ratatata Silver Member

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    my cat has an interesting take on this

    my cat has smoked extremely poorly made dmt to little effect (comparative to what he will later say/other cats have explained to be the effects of dmt), and has drinken weak brews of ayahuasca/mixed a weak brew with mushrooms before to GREAT effect (although manageable). one experience though relates to this in an interesting way that my cat hasn't been able to find any information on

    my cat made a weak batch of ayahuasca. dissappointed, my cat smoked 1 hit of 5x salvia. he had smoked this 2 or 3 times previous, of the same brand, almost exactly one year previous. he'd say 10 months actually. he had previously smoked ENTIRE BOWLS to himself of this potency, and although he didn't smoke it with the same efficiency of the hit he took that time, he smoked an entire bowl and held it longer

    after one hit, he had what could only be described as a full blown dmt breakthrough. he was in a circus tent, a lady was before him flying around, and he wont give an indepth explanation, but it was very remeniscent of dmt trips hes read about (she was showing him things, impossible geometry, seeing infinity in every molecule which there were infinity of, but being completely aware of himself and just in shock that this was happening)

    suddenly this switched into an intense salvia breakthrough, with all the symptoms of a salvia trip; believing he was something he wasnt, forgetting his identity and that he had consumed any drugs, physical pain, and all of the dmt trip being gone from the experience

    this entire thing lasted 5 mintues in reality but felt like maybe an hour. the salvia part felt like an entire life time

    my cat can say with confidence that while the dmt part was terrifying because it was so unexpected, it was much more interesting, and was one of the most, not beautiful, per say, but awe inspiring things he's ever seen. the salvia, was, like all salvia experiences that hes had, extremely uncomfortable and terrifying, and any interminnent joy wasn't from a revelation but rather a happiness to be back to himself

    my cat hasn't found any information on if an maoi potentiates salvia, or if dmt and salvia have any synergy. he hasn't seen anyone else try this, as most other cats that have smoke salvia with dmt smoke it with dmt crystals, or smoke it on a potent brew of ayahuasca.


    to answer the question, assuming that the dmt part was at least close to a true dmt trip, he thinks that there was some terror involved from the absolute shock (especially because he hadnt mentally perpared himself for a breakthrough, and it was his first breakthrough), but afterwards he appreciated the experience, as he was himself through the entire thing. the terror felt from salvia is from the complete shock of losing my cats identity completely, and the physical pain that he often experiences on the drug.


    my cat has since experimented with freebase dmt to very limited success, but if he were to pick one as a "favourite," dmt is a clear winner. salvia leaves him feeling simply glad its over
     
  20. shwinehund

    shwinehund Silver Member

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    I have never tried DMT but he has tried other tryptamines, and salvia...

    my finds that salvia is more of a tool...as though you have to establish your direction and intention before using it.

    I find that if he just does it, he gets, as someone mentioned earlier, a confused message...

    I tried it recently for the first time in a while, and without direction, woke up to people looking down at him, and commenting to each other that I was "not ready"(!)

    So SWIM practiced maintaining awareness, and consequently in his next experience, met with a South-American looking girl, who told him she was a librarian, and proceeded to show him a catalogue of all the books in the library. I thought of some memories, and she found them in the catalogue, and showed them to him... the trip then faded.