Question - Does anyone have any info on the subject of treating anhedonia with psychedelics?

Discussion in 'Magic Mushrooms (Psilocybe & Amanita)' started by Uncle Squeebs, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Uncle Squeebs

    Uncle Squeebs Newbie

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    This is just personal experience and i would like to see if anyone has more info on this:
    On the subject of anhedonia, i am wondering if certain psychedelic drugs can help one recover from it.

    I had a meth addiction a few years ago that lasted a couple of months. My prefered ROA was smoking it. After i got off the stuff, i have been experiencing lethargy and apathy ever since. It has been at a level that had me concerned that i was narcoleptic. Sometimes i cant sit down for more than 20 mins without falling asleep.

    But to the point, i have had several experiences with LSD and psilocybin mushrooms since then. They didnt really make the lethargy go away, but they definitely helped alleviate some of the apathy. This leads me to believe that if one experiences anhedonia, one may benefit from entheogens (if one uses them in a responsible manner). LSD may not be the best choice but it seemed to help me. I could see one benefiting more from mushrooms (which also seem to help me), mescaline, or even MDMA (be careful with that one, as one with a meth addiction may find it easy to slip into and MDMA addiction).

    So does anyone have any info on the subject of treating anhedonia with psychedelics?
     
  2. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Imperial Wizzard Gold Member Donating Member

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    These days it seems that everyone is expecting new things from psychedelics in weeks' frequency.
    we are sadly at the long end of fifty years of no studies at all.
    What I want to say is - we are too fast with asking to yet have answers. But it sure is the best thing to wait for what results will come out on this kind of questions posed.

    we need to be a bit more paitient ( yes I know, society should have made available tests long ago, but that didnt happen..)

    BBW
     
  3. Shampoo

    Shampoo entity of sorts Staff Member

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    Actually @TheBigBadWolf there is quite a bit of research published on this subject.

    In the past several years alone there has been a great deal of attention paid to the potential for psilocybin and LSD to be used as a therapeutic tool for depression and anxiety. Looking at end-of-life anxiety and depression in particular, Grob et al 2011 (PMID: 20819978) and Ross et al 2016 (PMID: 27909164) both showed great success in double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on single-dose psilocybin administration while Griffiths et al 2016 (PMID: 24594678) showed remarkable success using a single-dose LSD regimen.

    Psilocybin has also shown to be quite effective in treatment-resistant depression (see Stroud et al 2018 for some interesting mechanistic discussion on this) including at a six-month follow-up in patients with unipolar depression who were given to oral doses of psilocybin on subsequent weeks (Carhart-Harris et al 2018 PMID: 29119217). That same group had published an open-label study (as opposed to the above-referenced blinded study) for treatment-resistant depression which also included a 3 month follow-up showing significantly reduced symptomology in the depressed patients (Carhart-Harris et al 2016 PMID: 27210031).

    Some evidence has also been gathered showing reductions in anhedonia in microdosing (recent PLoS One article from Polito and Stevenson, PMID: 30726251) though those results are self-reported.

    The biggest complication here is that depression (and anhedonia, as a symptom of depression) arises from a huge variety of causes at both a behavioral and pharmacological level. Thus, treatments are likely to be successful or ineffective across patients who, though their symptoms overlap, have differing underlying causes. This, coupled with the fact that psychedelics have the potential to cause great psychological distress under certain conditions, mean that psychedelics as a treatment for depression/anhedonia will likely remain an off-label or last-measure option, even if they are considered safe and effective in controlled environments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  4. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Imperial Wizzard Gold Member Donating Member

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    @Shampoo, thank you for the completion of what I tried to explain.
    I am aware of most what we have gathered in the last few years -
    What I meant to say is that we do not have official, proven treatment options yet, as much as we see promise for some substances, I would feel bad to talk about actual possibilities for treatment.
    I think that we need twenty years to catch up on what was forbidden since Nixon's times.

    And yes, I see that big problem that behavioural issues should be addressed mainly behavioural.
    To me the general question behind this here thread seems to be:
    What psychedelic will heal me from XY.

    I'm completely with you in that psychological issues need to be addressed with behavioural therapy rather than trying to use a substance as a 'switch-off' means. We know too well that human mind doesnt work that way.
    There sadly is still a big idea hovering over general public that says: take my pill you get cured.
    We do not have this opportunity now, nor will we have it in some (few) years.

    even if we wish so.
     
  5. Uncle Squeebs

    Uncle Squeebs Newbie

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    Thanks for the speedy replies. My hands are shaking from too much caffeine so i will keep this short.

    Its a shame that most of the worlds governments are so prohibition-happy. I would like to see much more research being done for psychedelics in general, but i know that this is a touchy subject for people to study these days.

    A couple quick questions:

    Does the average depression patient typically experience anhedonia? I have just learned about this symptom today, but i could see this being a widely experienced thing.

    What about dissociatives such as ketamine or dextromethorphan? I know that ketamine is much more widely researched and used in medical settings. I know that people have been using single dose IM ketamine to treat depression, addiction and chronic pain, but is there any research of the effects of ketamine to treat anhedonia itself?
     
  6. TheBigBadWolf

    TheBigBadWolf Imperial Wizzard Gold Member Donating Member

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    @Uncle Squeebs,

    I believe you get further the fastest if you follow the blue highlighted hyperlinks that lead you to DF-wiki articles about the substances/terms in question.
    Do also use our search machine on what keywords you wanna know about.

    I am sure you'll get your answers faster than waiting until someone has the time to address your questions.

    If you lack any knowledge afterwards or you want to discuss a thesis you formed, feel free to post your questions.
    We have a wealth of far over a decade of info and discussion. please use what we already have, first. THank you.

    BBW
     
  7. Uncle Squeebs

    Uncle Squeebs Newbie

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    Yeah sorry and thanks. I was just digging around and it seems that nobody on this site has written about dissociatives being used to treat anhedonia. Maybe im missing something. Maybe it hasnt been researched yet or maybe nobody is even asking this question because they dont think it will work. Or maybe just nobody has thought to ask this. Whatever the case, i have a feeling that a good dose of a powerful dissociative may help someone with anhedonia since it has apparently helped people with their depression. I couldnt even find much info about anhedonia on this site. Is it a more recently discovered condition?

    Btw, sorry for putting this post in the wrong place originally.
     
  8. Shampoo

    Shampoo entity of sorts Staff Member

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    No, anhedonia was originally defined at the end of the 19th century. It's been a well-known condition for more than 120 years. Most often it is a component of other psychological disorders such as depression, PTSD or schizophrenia (amongst others). This is likely why you are not seeing specific information only related to anhedonia - it does not often occur as a diagnosable condition on its own, but rather as part of a constellation of symptoms.

    There is some research on the use of dissociatives, including salvinorin and ketamine, for the treatment of these conditions which show some alleviation of anhedonic symptoms.
     
  9. Uncle Squeebs

    Uncle Squeebs Newbie

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    Thank you. That explains my fruitless search. I just learned of this symptom yesterday and have experienced this on and off for most of my life. Most notably after i quit meth. This is why i am interested. I have noticed positive changes with my occasional use of psychedelics. the recent resurgence of my interest in psychoactives has kind of alleviated some of this symptom too. I will be taking some pure dxm tonight and it will be my first dissociative dose in a long time (besides some ketamine containing cream that i rubbed on my back last night lol). I suspect that i experience anhedonia as a symptom of my bipolar and am hoping that this 2nd or 3rd plateau dose will further alleviate this symptom or maybe even help me deal with the disorder as a whole.
     
  10. jazzyj9

    jazzyj9 Titanium Member Donating Member

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    I have lethargy and lack of motivation perhaps one can call it low grade Anhedonia. Ketamine infusions helped. I’m considering low dose/micro dosing on psilocybin or 1p-lsd. The 1p lsd is available on the “grey market “

    I tried 2fluorodeschloroketamine which is also unregulated and available as a research chemical with good effect but very sedating. I’m doing TMS treatment now which also seems to help. If you decide to delve into research chemicals please do though research prior and have a test kit before you take any drug.