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Combinations - Does buprenorphine block opiates or their high?

Discussion in 'Buprenorphine' started by Tony Williams, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams

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    Does buprenorphine block, well "cause" a short term temp high tolerence where as, SWIY just needs more? or more for them same effects.

    Or does it cut out the high mostly meaning that if you dose normally you might feel some of it but not all but if you try and chase a normal feeling high, you will overdose and could die?
     
  2. VirtuallyEmotionless

    VirtuallyEmotionless Silver Member

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    Buprenorphine can and will cause one to build a tolerance to opiates, but it's not just the tolerance that prevents one from getting high. Buprenorphine fills the opiate receptors and doesn't let other opiates bind to them. Not being able to get high while on Buprenorphine is because of Buprenorphine's higher binding affinity at the opiate receptors. Once Buprenorphine has them receptors filled, other opiates have nowhere to bind to.

    I hope that helps you to understand this better.
     
  3. oxythekid

    oxythekid Newbie

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    To be short, yes you could very easily overdose trying to "catch" the high. Even tho you may not feel the total effects by not getting the normal buzz, physically everything remains the same. The same respiratory issues apply
     
  4. VirtuallyEmotionless

    VirtuallyEmotionless Silver Member

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    This is incorrect. Buprenorphine has a ceiling effect. If one builds their tolerance up to the ceiling, then no amount of extra Buprenorphine will make a difference. From what my Cheshire Cat reads, Buprenorphine is hard to overdose with because of the ceiling.

    Here's some more information pertaining to Buprenorphine's ceiling effect. My Cheshire Cat is also going to include the link to the original article below.

    http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Suboxone-Ceiling-Effect---Why-Some-People-Need-Methadone
     
  5. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams

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    No. SWIM has found that Buprenorphine blocks the high from opiates but that the actual opaite.

    Over a weekend he did 14g nearly of opium/pods it was boiled down pods/opium. No effect although maybe it stoppd wd's but after he had REALLY bad constipation I might it was a couple of bricks (which is opi side effect)

    He did OC the other day 2 pills and an alright buzz then did a bit more and more and could not catch the high and showed syptoms of overdose. SWIM finds this often.

    I think that could make bupe dangerious someone not feelng an opi high and going over.

    Be careful
     
  6. professor1165

    professor1165 Silver Member

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    It should be noted that bupe is an opiate, not a blocker, which it is commonly referred as. I dont have the hard data but bupe is up there with fentanyl in terms of strength. The blocking effect is simply a side effect not a direct effect as in naloxone or naltrexone. Bupe's binding affinity allows it to act as a blocker but it is a narcotic painkiller. In fact, Bupe is one of the few opioids strong enough to displace a long acting antagonist like naltrexone It has been posted that constant dosing of more common opioids in an attempt to overcome the blocking effect can result in overdose which, besides the immediate complications, is even more lethal because of bupes resistance to naloxone. I know I'm stating the obvious to most of you, but to those who aren't informed it is vital to understand bupe is a dangerously strong opioid not simply a 'blocker'. It should never be combined with other opiates and never ever taken recreationally by a person with no opioid tolerance. Its real deal, ultra high potency and should be more thoroughly discussed as such...TONY your initial question about tolerance and dosing is misguided. You cant get high because its like chasing a heroin shot with a few vicodin. Oxy's and Hydro's cant compete with bupes strength and binding affinity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  7. Petri6

    Petri6

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    I think the writer SWIY quoted was referring to the dangers of doing other opioids on top of bupeprenorphine.

    However, it is my understanding that both the euphoric effects and the respiratory depressant effects are mediated by the μ-opioid receptor. Since buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity to the μ-opioid receptor, hence other opioids can't bind into that receptor while sufficient amount of buprenorphine is present, shouldn't respiratory depression, as well as the euhopric effects, of other opioids also be negated? Could someone comment on this (preferably packed with some related science)?
     
  8. Photobug

    Photobug Silver Member

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    Bupe will block both the high from other opiates and their pain killing effect. Docs can over come the pain killing block, but the Bupe has to be stopped completely. And since too much of the pain killer can still kill you, this is best left to docs. My cat found this out when he had to go for emergency surgery. He was on too much Subox due to a dumb Sub doc. One morning his Gall Bladder ruptured and the next morning it had to be removed. The docs kept him out of pain. He was surprised because he was told this wasn't going to be possible. But the docs know how to do it. But leave it to them. Don't try it. You can OD and die if it's not done right. So yes, Bupe will block everything from other opiates. You can die trying to get around this. Docs can get around this if necessary. But leave it to them.
     
  9. Tony Williams

    Tony Williams

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    Aye alright - there's no real safe way to do this anyway - SWIM noticed at 6mg he'd use on and it just fucked the high a bit but 8mg was alot worse - now he's down to 6mg OFFICALLY but he's taking 2mg ORALLY and 4mg SUBBED and he's gunna drop him self to 2mg SUBBED and 4mg ORALLY for a while till they offically drop him - once he's off the stuff 2 week break off all opis and just every two week or something - hopefully that works. :D

    *7 month later* oh yeah SWIMS back on the ol' bupe. :D

    WISH LUCK PLEZ :p
     
  10. Photobug

    Photobug Silver Member

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    Hey Tony,

    What does SUBBED mean? I'm too old to be up on the latest lingo. What does that mean, snorted, or banged, or something? You really should dissolve them under the tongue. That's how you get the maximum amount into your body. And what are you on, Suboxone pills or strips? Or is it Subutex pills? Since you want off it, do you have the 8 mg or 2 mg tabs? One last question. How long have you been on Sub?

    From what I know, your wean - detox schedule isn't likely to work. Unless you're just looking to get off Sub so you can go back to other opiates? It might work to do that. But if you're trying to quit Sub so you can be opiate free, then depending on how long you've been on them, you have to wean much slower, and cut down to about .25 mg a day for 1 - 3 months before you can make the jump off. Some people have even cut down to less than .25 mg a day. They're basically taking a crumb from a 2 mg pill. Sub stays in you a Very long time. And even after you have totally stopped taking it, the effects can stay with you up to 1 year.

    I know this because 1.5 years ago I had to go off Sub and onto Oxy and MSC for back pain. I needed massive doses, and as time went on my tolerance went up and I needed even more. What's more I could no longer catch even a slight buzz off all that Oxy. And Oxy always gave me my best buzz. I also didn't crave any of the meds. I only took them because of pain, and the never ending withdrawal symptoms. I'm off them now, and back on Subutex. However, in the last 2 months I was starting to feel cravings again. Which wasn't good. But the euphoric buzz never came back, even after 1 year off Sub. But I was on it almost 6 years. I'm also 58, and age matters when it comes to the brain healing itself. So I seriously hope you are not 88. You don't sound like an 88 year old person anyway. So your brain should heal quicker than mine did. But 1 way or another, you're in for a long road to be completely off Sub. Unless you're only on it a few weeks.

    Good Luck.
     
  11. oxythekid

    oxythekid Newbie

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    that is what i was trying to convey. NOT that you can OD from the BUPE but from the other opiates taken trying to catch a buzz while on bupe. Does that make sense now???
     
  12. Photobug

    Photobug Silver Member

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    Yes, perfectly. And that's exactly right. Bupe can block the high, and even some of the pain killing abilities of other opiates. But if you take way too much, in a fruitless attempt to get high, you can still die.