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Question - Does hydromorphone show up on a standard panel 8 drug test?

Discussion in 'Drug testing Questions' started by y0ssarianlives, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. y0ssarianlives

    y0ssarianlives Titanium Member

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    Hi,

    I had adream in which we lived in a fascist nation which required of a friend two drug tests a week. SWIM's friend in this dream knows that hydromorphone is a semi synthetic and does not break down into morphine and codeine as metabolites but this friend in My dream was still worried that somehow it might show up on a panel 8. This is for a treatment program and will most likely be sent to a lab..

    Does anyone know enough about the procedures of drug testing enough to answer My' dreams' friend?

    y0ssarianlives added 1391 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

    Well these are the metabolites of hyrdomorphone detectable in the urine.

    Hydromorphone-3-glucuronide, dihydromorphine, dihydroisomorphine, dihydromorphine-3-glucuronide and dihydroisomorphine-3-glucuronide


    I know drug tests are flagged as positive for morphine and codeine; do you guys think that any of these metabolites will trigger a positive UA?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2008
  2. cra$h

    cra$h Palladium Member

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    to answer your question simply: yes. opiates are opiates.
    why? all opiates from hydrocodone to heroin act on the same receptors, and morphine is in there just as well. synthetic or not, it still counts since the primary drug still comes from the opium plant.
     
  3. Spare Chaynge

    Spare Chaynge Palladium Member

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    fentanyl dosent show up but its a whole different ball game
     
  4. y0ssarianlives

    y0ssarianlives Titanium Member

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    As far as I know, they first do an immunessay test which hydromorphone would NOT set off as it's a synthetic and does not DIRECTLY metabolize into codeine, morphine, or 6-MAM, the major heroin metabolite. It would only show up under a GS/MC or whatever.

    And yeah, fent is based of thebaine and isn't even on the radar so that might have to be My new drug of choice for the meantime.

    y0ssarianlives added 27 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

    In fact, I have discovered that these are the opiate metabolites that will trigger a positive for the overarching term "opiates" on a drug test via immunoassay testing.


    codeine-n-oxide, morphine-3-glucuronide, morphine-6-glucuronide, monoacetylmorphine, morphine-n-oxide, naltrexol, norcodeine, normorphine

    Sooo... if any swimmer have cause to be concerned about a drug test, check to see if your opioid/opiate metabolizes into this list. Otherwise, unless they specifically test for it, like hydrocodone for instance, or..... methadone, they have to have a SPECIFIC test for any substance that doesn't metabolize into that list.

    But still, remember its still a gamble.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2010
  5. cra$h

    cra$h Palladium Member

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    swim's pretty positive oxy/hydrocodone would show up, as it's a form of codeine, which is still codiene. the same for the hydromorphone. it's a form of morphine, so it's gonna trip
     
  6. y0ssarianlives

    y0ssarianlives Titanium Member

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    I know for a fact after my counciller at my methadone clinic showed me what they test for; they have a seperate test for oxy as it doesnt test positive for opiates. So yeh, synthetics will NOT trigger an opiate drug test unless they specifically test for it.
     
  7. mpmackd

    mpmackd Newbie

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    Oxycodone does not show up as opiates. It's synthetic and doesn't break down into whatever an opiate test looks for. There is a specific test for Oxycodone...trust me...I'm sure. I'm wondering myself about hydromorphone if it shows up as opiates....it might...not sure though.

    I wouldn't take the word of the individuals who claim that Oxycontin/Oxycodone will show up as a positive as opiates, as they just think that because it's an opiate/opioid, that it must show up as opiates on a drug screen (logic would suggest so).

    I've taken many drug tests and oxycodone is usually on a 10-panel drug test...but not a 5-panel. I've never seen a test for hydromorphone, so it might show up as opiates. Same with Opana...I don't know if they show up as an opiate or not (oxymorphone).
     
  8. YeaXTC

    YeaXTC Palladium Member

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    This is just swim elaborating, and not "official" in any way, so take it with a grain of salt.

    But in my experience, hydromorphone is a metabolite of hydrocodone (but way smaller when taken as hydrocodone)... so if hydrocodone would set off an opiate in this type of drug test, then would a metabolite of such drug also cause a positive? I amn't sure, and it is true that oxycodone needs it's OWN special test to detect it, it's not found in the standard "opiate" drug test. Same with methadone. Not too sure about hydromorphone, sorry, wish I could provide more info but thought that might be helpful.

    xo

    Jesse
     
  9. IOwnUtopia

    IOwnUtopia Newbie

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    Re: Does hydromorphone show up on a standard panel 8 drug test?

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    An accredited medical laboratory technician who does testing of these things all the time says a very resounding "YES" is the answer. Hydromorphone is a classical opiate. It can test positive for opiates even on a standard home drug screen. High Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC), Gas Chromatography(GC), or Mass Spectroscopy(MS) is needed to sort out which opiate has caused the positive reaction once it has been found in a screen, but yes that drug can test positive on a screen. It is less reactive than morphine however, so it produces a positive result less frequently, or perhaps less strongly than codeine, morphine, or diacetylmorphine (heroin), all of which are excreted as morphine glucoronides.

    The assay that is found even in commonly found urine tests uses a synthetic antibody to morphine that reacts with the structure of morphine and causes agglutination with an azo dye. The dye reacts by changing color. It is fairly selective for morphine, but can react to other chemicals similar in structure. The less similarity the structure has with morphine, the weaker the reaction. Hydromorphone varies from morphine by having a methyl group at the N position and having a slightly different conformation at the binding site. It is otherwise very similar to morphine, and can cause a mild to moderate reaction with the antibody.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In fact, any morphine analogue can trigger the agglutination to varying degrees. Long story short, hydromorphone can and does test positive on these screens, especially if the user has taken a large dose. This is something that has been witnessed by the lab tech mentioned while testing urine on numerous occasions. Do not trust Erowid (which has some articles dating back to the late eighties and early nineties) just because it is a common resource, or because some people have been successful with beating a test. If a person has a risk of losing a good job or something valuable over a urine test, hydromorphone is not worth taking.

    Urine screens specifically for oxycodone or other members of this class exist as well. They use a corresponding antibody to whatever is being tested (ie an oxycodone antibody for oxycodone). They are most selective for that drug, but like the test for morphine, they too can react with other drugs in this class, so be careful with any morphine analogue. Some modern drug tests use a combination of two or three antibodies to make the test even better at catching opiates.

    Also note that opiates have been around for a long time, and testing for them has become very commonplace. The testing methods have also become increasingly sophisticated, less expensive and more accurate.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The cut off range for the morphine screen is typically 300 ng\ml, which equates to about anything greater than 1-3 mg of morphine within the past 24 hours for a 150 pound male adult. If the number is below this range, even if the test is positive, it is considered a negative drug test, as false positives can occur occasionally especially in individuals with autoimmune disorders, women taking pyridium, and some other drugs and conditions. Other specific opiate tests have various cut off ranges.

    If an employer or other agency has decided to pay the expenses required for further testing, the urine is fractionated and every component of it is analyzed. Gas chromatography, Mass spectroscopy, or HPLC can be used to further determine down to the structural level, what chemical compounds and at what concentration they are present in the urine once a positive result is seen. The peaks seen for classical opiates like hydromorphone are very similar and are readily identifiable. If the drug test is part of a legal hearing or in a medical environment, expect all of this to be done. Don't take chances if there is a lot to lose.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some fields of work will require even more scrutiny. These include fields involving the handling and dispersion of drugs, government employees, military members, police forces, and similar fields.

    Military members face dishonorable discharges after testing positive for drugs, so the urine screening process is meticulously documented and extremely hard to contend if a person tests positive for any of the commonly encountered drugs. Not only does the person have to explain why they tested positive, but a team of healthcare providers and lawyers review the entire situation. Any claims that might be made about a medication causing a false positive are basically shot down pretty quickly. The patient's entire medical record is reviewed very closely so that no false claims can be made about any legal prescriptions or ignorance of how\when to take a medication. The military urine screen isn't foolproof. There are many drugs not tested for including anabolic steroids(!), but if a person fails a basic panel drug test for the likes of cocaine, amphetamine, THC, opiates, or PCP, there is really no fighting it. Some military members have been dishonorably discharged even after having been drugged by an illegal substance and raped!

    In short, a person who wants to sleep soundly at night should not take any opium derived opiates if they face regular drug testing!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It should be stated that the above information applies to experience working with urine testing for government employees and in a medical setting. The testing used is perhaps slightly more extensive or more accurate than what might be commonly encountered in a standard urine drug screening program used by employers. (But not by much).

    As a safety measure and legal defense, always keep any and all valid prescriptions for opioids or scheduled drugs, even if they are outdated, as they at least establish a medical usage and a legal history of their use. A last ditch effort strategy is to keep prescriptions to other medications and suggest that they may have caused the false positive. Most non government employers will not know enough to argue with this, and are unlikely to pursue the matter further if the employee is respected and credible. Repeat positive drug tests are not a good sign to an employer.

    Another important fact to know is that urine is the most concentrated at the first void of the morning, because it has collected over night and the excess water from the urine has been reabsorbed by the body. A person hypothetically wishing to pass a drug test should be sure to urinate several times before the test and to drink a lot of water so that what is urinated is mostly the water that has just entered their system. High dose caffeine (200-600mg or according to body type and as tolerable) over the course of several days prior to the test is also not a bad idea. Do not rely on beverage products or other online scams to pass a drug test as a first line defense.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are many opiate analgesics that will not test positive under any circumstances on a standard panel drug test, and these should be used in lieu of classical opiates if one is drug tested regularly. A person may even want to ask their doctor to switch their medication to the list below to avoid unnecessary stress caused by drug tests.

    Some of the more common ones (not an all-inclusive list):

    Fentanyl and its analogues

    Tramadol and its derivatives

    Mitragynine (kratom)
    Mitragynine is still relatively unknown and would be the safest bet for someone who gets drug tested. It's not tested by any method. It's also legal so there is no recourse.

    Picralima nitida alkaloids
    This is a new plant source of natural mu opioid agonists with an indole structure similar to mitragynine. More and more of these have been discovered recently. The plant also has anti-inflammatory alkaloids. Legal. :)

    Methadone and analogues (* some very uncommonly encountered urine screens tests can screen for this, but an employer can not discriminate against a person with a history of drug use that is actively seeking medical help. Some exceptions include working in a hospital setting or with access to drugs.)

    Propoxyphene derivatives

    Pethidine\Meperidine (demerol) and its analogues (some extended panel opioid tests are capable of detecting this but at great expense. It is NOT included in a standard panel urine screen).

    Pentazocine (Talwin) and other benzomorphans

    Moramide analogues

    Levorphanol\levomethorphan and analogues are generally non-reactive with morphine antibody (but not completely failsafe!). They have a phenanthrene core structure that removes the pyran structure of classical opiates which is a major recognition site of the antibody. Dextromethorphan belongs to this class and creates a false positive at about the same rate, which is extremely rarely.

    All of these are chemically distinct enough from classical opiates that they won't fire any red flags, except under the circumstances mentioned. As far as a random drug screen, they'd be good to go, rest assured.

    As far as someone saying that fentanyl is a thebaine derivative, it is not. It is based on the peptide structure of dynorphin and enkaphalin.
    :cool:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The above information is not medical advice and is merely theoretical. Any sources of information regarding medicines or psychoactive substances should be reviewed and read carefully and consulted with a licensed physician. The author takes no responsibility for use or misuse of this information.

    This was merely provided as a poorly written and rather boring short story about a person working in a medical field.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
  10. ak_balla

    ak_balla Newbie

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    Anyone know what panel drug test the Department of Transportation uses?

    ak_balla added 0 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

    specifically if it tests for oxycodone?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  11. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    I just want to clear up some possible confusion in this thread. I worked at a drug testing laboratory for 2 years. This is how it works...

    Immunoassay tests, or drug screens, are the first type of test that is conducted on a sample. There are numerous categories which are tested for. Two of those categories apply to opiates. They are typically called 'Opiates' and 'Opioids'. The opiates category will catch traditional opiates including morphine, codeine, heroin (or 6-MAM a heroin metabolite) and anything that metabolizes into one of these. The opioids category will catch many synthetic opiates that are pharmacologically known as 'opioids'. These typically include any hydro or oxy forms of opiates. This includes hydrocodone, oxycodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone.

    Assume that all of these are tested for in typical immunoassay tests.

    Others that may be tested for include propoxyphene and methadone. Fentanyl can be tested for, but typically isn't in a standard screen. Tramadol is increasingly common to test for, but currently is not tested for in many places - I would expect this to change in the near future as tramadol is becoming an increasing concern for abuse potential.
     
  12. YeaXTC

    YeaXTC Palladium Member

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    Jasim,

    Was wondering if You knows 'protocol' for buperenorphine aka suboxone

    My BF will be required to take drug tests for his PO, & is something as /askew/ as bupe commonly tested for, or no, because it's synthetic such as fetanyl. Swim realizes You will not know his specific test, etc, and cannot say for sure, but would a metabolite of suboxone cause a positive for an 'opiate' drug test, etc is swims question, and also, is it ~generally~ tested for, or no?

    Thanks!

    xo

    Jesse
     
  13. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    ^ Ah, thank you, I forgot to mention buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is also commonly tested for and may be tested for as part of a standard screen panel (it was at the lab I worked at).

    Buprenorphine tests are separate from opiates and opioids. If it is tested for it will show up on the test as 'Buprenorphine'.
     
  14. cunningcriminal

    cunningcriminal Newbie

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    SWIM tests regularly for his PO, and hasn't had one trip up with Suboxone on the screen...not quite sure what drug test the Probation office uses, just that it's urine-based, like most of them. I wouldn't use this answer as a definitive reason to not worry about using subs and testing clean, it's just My experience with the drug....
     
  15. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    I'd like to further clarify some of what I posted earlier, including a bit of misinformation on my part. For a standard urine dipstick test (which is by far the most common type of drug test and is the drug test used for most occupational testing) the SAMHSA 5 are tested for. This includes the opiates that I mentioned above, but does not include opioids, methadone, fentanyl, or buprenorphine. The lab that I worked for did criminal drug testing which was an expanded panel drug screen. In expanded panel drug screens assume that opioids, methadone, fentanyl, and buprenorphine are tested for as standard protocol.
     
  16. cunningcriminal

    cunningcriminal Newbie

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    My Probation officer uses the standard dip stick test as well...does hydromorphone show up? And what will it show up as? My Tramadol shows up as benzos sometimes...
     
  17. chillinwill

    chillinwill Newbie

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    See this post, that was posted only a few posts up in this thread.

     
  18. rainmaker42

    rainmaker42 Newbie

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    Do you know if hydromorphone is tested on a 5 panel cup test? There is a keycode given for the 5 panels tested for (a single letter is given for the 5 different panels) and then there are an additial 7 keycodes for drugs that are available not tested but not used. It contained oxycodone but not opioids or buperenorphine.

    The previous posts seemed to indicate that opiods would not be tested on a lower panel test (although I do use a cup not a stick) but because opiods are not mentioned specifically on my test I wanted to clarify this first.
     
  19. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    ^ Take the time to read the thread! This has been answered extensively only a few posts up. In short, hydromophone, being an Opioid would not be tested for in a 5-panel.
     
  20. Herbal Healer 019

    Herbal Healer 019 Silver Member

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    hydrocodone and oxycodone are not codiene or forms of codeine. Hydrocodone and oxycodone are derived from opium based thebaine, not codeine.

    @ the Origional Poster: Hydromorphone is a morphinone & based on the metabolites you just listed I doubt it would show up on an 8 panel drug test. It would have to be an extended opioid drug test to show up I do beleive.

    Standard drug tests that test for opiates test for morphine & codeine. Heroin shows up because it breaks down into morphine.

    They do make extended drug tests if they suspect opiate abuse/use that can detect hydrocodone, oxycodone, hydromorphone, oxymorphone, fentanyl, etc..

    Opioids dont stay in your system long (ussually 2-4 days) so I wouldn't stress about it.