1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Other - Does kratom show up positive for opiates or opioids in a drug screen?

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by Nicaine, Jun 19, 2005.

  1. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    869
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,362
    Male from Rhode Island, U.S.A.
    Kratom and Drug Tests

    Does Kratom show up as anything on a urine test?

    Thnx
     
  2. sands of time

    sands of time Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    364
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,282
    Male
    no
     
  3. sands of time

    sands of time Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    364
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,282
    Male
    This question has been asked on so many forums, chats, ect, it's a well established fact that it doesn't cause false positives. Many vendors will also state on they're FAQ section that kratom doesn't cause false positives. I have never had first hand experience, but I'm confident enough that I would gladly take a drug test after having kratom.
     
  4. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    869
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,362
    Male from Rhode Island, U.S.A.
    This of course assumes the testers aren't looking for Kratom (which in all likelihood they wouldn't be). Makes sense they wouldn't find any chemicals they weren't testing for, whether or not said chemicals tweak the opiate receptors or not.
     
  5. thessle

    thessle Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    9
    Male from U.S.A.
    I've had tests twice with kratom in my system and both were neg.So dont worry
     
  6. zenben

    zenben Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    7
    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9
    Male
    I know for certain that kratom will not cause a false positive on piss tests. SWIM was on probation and needed to give piss tests all the time and decided to start using kratom to get off opiates. never once caused a false positive in 6 months of kratom use.
    Makes sense since kratom does not break down into morphine, which is what the test looks for. even if you did get a false positive, a more specific test like a G/C test would never confirm a false positive.
     
  7. iamsostrange

    iamsostrange Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Female
    Re: Kratom and piss tests

    SWIM knows that it does not show up in tests done in the United States. But SWIM doesn't know about other countries.
     
  8. dwilkes7

    dwilkes7 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    111
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    44
    67 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom and piss tests

    Swim says take a look at the Mytragyna molecule and compare it to the opiate(any) molecule. They are totally different. All that the piss test does is indicate a binding action to an opiate molecule, or mj or whatever. In fact take a look at Yohimbime(sp?) molecule, it looks more like kratom than opiate. Swim sincerely doubts they are testing for those molecules.:) :)
     
  9. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    419
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    532
    34 y/o Male
    Sorry if this has already been posted before. SWIM had a urine drug screen and was positive for opiates. The only drug/herb he was taking at the time was Kratom. SWIM's not heard of this before so he thought he'd post this up to warn others.
     
  10. robin_himself

    robin_himself Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    774
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    471
    Male from The Netherlands
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    "This is very much known. Use the search engine and you will find more information on this."

    Hmm... sorry if i judged to quickly. But swim has heard of this from alot of people. Swim doesn't have any scientific evidence right now but will make an effort to find it. Again.. sorry!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  11. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    419
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    532
    34 y/o Male
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    Whoops sorry. I never knew about this before.
     
  12. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    2,881
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,237
    Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    wait just a second.

    i just used the search engine, and all i found were threads and threads declaring that kratom could NEVER trip a positive on a drug screen that selects for morphine and other opiate break-down products. the posters claim that mytragine has no structural byproducts that are able to trigger a false positive.

    perhaps i searched incorrectly, but this is definitely news to me. and i'll just say right now that this is NOT GOOD NEWS!

    If it's true that urine drugs-of-abuse screens in the U.S. are equipped to detect Kratom, I bet 1/2 the people in this country who have taken it would have either been more careful with spreading out their experiments or they would have passed altogether.

    someone please clarify the position on this subject. And, if anyone knows about MS/GC confirmation, please enlighten members like me who are in the dark. -DICK
     
  13. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    2,881
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,237
    Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    will someone please confirm (or deny) this rumor!??

    oggy, did they do a confirmation test, where they send the results off to a lab and they will "let you know" the results later?

    this is very important.

    as far as i can tell, kratom is active on the opiate receptors yet does NOT have the molecular conformation as morphine, heroin, codeine, or synthetics. therefore, your positive must have been a "false positive." and that's what confirmation (lab) test were designed for...so people don't lose their jobs based on a false negative UA.

    The ONLY other explanation is that there is a specific antibody-test that detects kratom excretion. I HIGHY doubt this as it is neither controlled nor illegal. As such, are we subject to testing to see if we've eaten okra or squash in the last week?? just because someone side-stepped the usual progression of events and 'decided' that kratom use = drug use although it continues to be legal? not likely.
     
  14. RoboCop

    RoboCop Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    357
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    883
    Male from earth
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    Swim has been using kratom semi daily, as well as being UA'd by strips/sometimes getting sent to a lab. Kratom has never triped any positive. Im sorry if you got a negative but from all research I have done as well as SWIMS first hand experiences this is not true. Swims gonna keep drinking his favorite substance UAs or no.
     
  15. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    419
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    532
    34 y/o Male
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    All I know is SWIM gave a urine sample and the next time SWIM saw the doctor they said it was positive for opiates. The only drug/herb SWIM had been taking at the time was kratom so he figures it must have been the kratom.
     
  16. betsym

    betsym Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    646
    Female
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    Swim has also heard that some sensitive tests will test positive for Opiates when Kratom is used. Swim has a prescription for opiates so has never worried about that on a drug screen but she can see where this could worry some folks quite a bit. The strength of the Kratom might also affect whether or not it shows up on a UA. Swim has had some friends who drank Kratom and then had it show up as an Opiate on their drug screens but they had ordered the super premium. Of course, to some tests, an opiate is an opiate, regardless of where it came from.
     
  17. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,815
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,922
    Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    Swim works in a toxicology laboratory. This lab conducts urine and blood drug screens and tests. The lab has an immuno-analysis machine which uses antibodies selected against general drug structures or pharmacophores. This means that any chemical, irregardless of its structure, that shares similar structures to a drug class will be detected as a positive. Unfortunately this type of technology is becoming less expensive and more common.



    If a quantitative confirmation test is done, it will be negative, because no confirmation testing is done for kratom. Confirmation tests are chemically specific. Unfortunately it is well known within the industry that the immuno-analysis screens are almost never wrong. Just because they can't pinpoint the exact chemical, doesn't really say much. And they know it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
  18. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    2,881
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,237
    Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    wow Jasim! that's some serious info there!

    i've never once heard of this being the basis of any immunoassay (i.e. dipstick) test, but it sure as hell makes sense. especially now, with the internet/information spreading like wildfire/ new& questionable curiosities that can impair one's thinking without obviously being an illegal drug--in a case like this, with a negative GC/MS follow-up--if it were a LEGAL proceeding, I could see them freezing your sample for more elaborate testing AS NEWER "legal highs" ARE DISCOVERED!!

    well, all paranoia and such aside, i just want to verify here--if the GC/MS comes back negative, then your "positive" immunoassay has been officially DEBUNKED! correct? After the 2 week waiting period (sweating period), the final confirmatory test should be NEGATIVE. no ifs, ands or buts.

    however, oggy, if your "doctor" did the test, then there's only 1 reaction that you should have: ADAMANTLY DENY THAT YOU'VE TAKEN ANY OPIATE KNOWN TO MAN! why? because they'll be forced to run a confirmatory test to prove what substance you had taken. answer? NOTHING. then they will apologize to you.

    -DICK
     
  19. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,815
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,922
    Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    It depends on the circumstance. If the drug test is for some non-criminal reason, such as for work or a job, then the screen could be enough to get swiy into trouble. But criminal cases, it can vary depending upon the region and the circumstances.
    In the USA, if the matter is pressed (meaning swiy has a decent lawyer), then it ultimately comes down to whether or not the prosecutor is able to obtain a quantitative value for an identified chemical. Screens do not give quantitative values.

    At the moment this means GC/MS, HPLC, or a related technique. However the immuno-based machine that swim has in his lab (costing approx. $900,000) gives semi-quantitative values. And the technology is moving towards greater accuracy with fully quantitative values.

    Swim speculates that a push will be made to be able to determine binding potency to a given receptor (very possible theoretically). This information, combined with a quantitative value for an unknown analyte would be enough so that the chemical wouldn't have to be identified at all and would fully stand up in court. :s
     
  20. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    2,881
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,237
    Male from U.S.A.
    Re: Kratom shows up positive for opiates!

    i see where you're coming from, and i think it's one of those situations where the poor, ignorant, paranoid/afraid, uneducated members of society (i.e. not a good lawyer, not white--sorry, but true, or those who have NO LAWYER or any other knowledgeable helper) get screwed because they don't realize their INHERENT RIGHTS.

    as far as i know, there is absolutely NO LAW IN ANY COUNTRY that prohibits a compound which happens to bind to a known 'pleasure' receptor.

    prime example is endorphins. People who run every day will probably piss out TONS of opiate receptor-binding neurotransmitters. hell, there's a reason why we have the receptors in the first place. usually, it's because our bodies make neurotransmitters that fit right in there--like a lock and key.

    That's why the GC/MS confirmation test will totally, 100% absolve you of ANY WRONGDOING in the event of a false positive UA.

    now, this also brings up the issue of the 2 basic kinds of tests: sensitive and specific.

    Sensitive tests are for SCREENING PURPOSES. They have a VERY LOW margin of error. If you test positive for a sensitive test, it does NOT mean that you're actually positive. It just means that the next step is a SPECIFIC TEST.

    SPECIFIC TESTS: These tests are calibrated for extreme specificity. in other words, if you failed the 1st test, you then take the specific test (usually more expensive)--like GC/MS to determine SPECIFICALLY if your initial positive test result was validly positive--or, was it just a false positive.

    Realize that in order to catch ALL DISEASES (or in this case, all drug users), the 1st test (sensitive) is specifically designed so that there is virtually 0% of people who you tell "everything's fine. no disease." however, they actually HAVE THE DISEASE.

    There are plenty of examples of this first:sensitive and second:specific testing in the medical world--not just drug testing.

    i.e. sensitive test: routine (cheap) Complete Blood Count/analysis-where a computer totals up how many red blood cells you have versus white blood cells versus platelets.

    this test is very inexpensive, and good to run just to 'be sure' everything's ok.

    if something doesn't look right with that test, THEN you go on to the SPECIFIC (expensive) test like analyzing for tumor markers or paying a pathologist to look at the tissue sample under a microscope to actually SEE if there are any cancer/leukemia cells.

    Drug testing is the same way. People will walk all over you if you let them. a shitty drug-tester might not even tell you that there's a REALLY high false-positive rate on the initial dipstick test. You have to KNOW to deny, deny, deny. Demand the "specific" test. unless you're really just busted, the 2nd test will reveal that you're actually negative.

    -DICK