1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Does your body ever feel right again after long term opiate use?

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by UNIBLACK810, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. UNIBLACK810

    UNIBLACK810 Silver Member

    Age:
    40
    Reputation Points:
    29
    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    70
    SWIM had been a long term heroin and cocaine addict. Although SWIM was one of those functioning addict's nonetheless SWIM was just as much an addict if not more as the person panhandling and ripping off walgreen's. SWIM tried for many years to get clean and before now SWIM probably had only been clean the longest of maybe 2 weeks. SWIM hasn't done heroin or cocaine in 2 years now. Eventhough SWIMis now no longer phyisically addicted to either anymore SWIM's body just never ever feels normal. Always tired and moody, No motivation. However if SWIM happens to come across an OXY and takes it, SWIM feels absolutely fine. I mean not to the point where SWIM is "High" SWIM just feels normal. With energy, not so irritated, just back like SWIM did before SWIM ever messed with heroin. SWIM says'he remembers reading once before that heroin changes your body chemistry in some way. And that once it is changed it does'nt go back to the way it was. This is a huge problem for SWIM as SWIM cannot see himself dealing with that same feeling for years to come. Seem's as if SWIM is going thru a mild withdrawl still every single day. But when SWIM even takes just one 5mg vicodin or an Oxy SWIM feels absolutely normal. WTF! SWIM is pretty knowledgeable with addiction and substance abuse but this boggles the shit out of SWIM. Anyone got any answers or suggestion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2009
  2. moda00

    moda00 R.I.P.

    Reputation Points:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    How often has swiy been doing occasional pharma pills or other opiates? Part of it may be because even if he has stopped heroin and cocaine, his body is still not being allowed to return to "normal." Swim too does wonder this and hopes perhaps someone with a longer tiem sober can answer. Swim can't say for sure because she has been on methadone, so while she was stabilized and totally sober for around a year after getting of heroin/coke, she was and is using methadone for maintenance. I do wonder sometimes about the hypothesis that some people may need opiates to function, whether because they are born that way, or whether brought on by addiction, I don't know. Just a random thought. But would be interested in more feedback. I think that it is very possible and likely that in such a case (issues of continued use of other drugs, pharmas, etc. aside) it could also be related to another underlying issue. For example, physical and psychological overlap, and any condition- depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, a sleep disorder, etc. can really cause one to feel "out of whack" or "out of balance." If this is the reason a person starts using, it makes sense that when they stop these feelings/problems could return and may need treatment. Sorry for the rambling post, just throwing some ideas out there, but would love to hear more experiences/opinions..
     
  3. y0ssarianlives

    y0ssarianlives Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    159
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    72
    Just as many people have issues with levels of brain chemistry such as overproduction/underproduction of serotonin, norepherine, and dopamine, individuals can also have wacked out levels of endorphins. These are people who may be extremely drawn to opioid use as these substances not only are extremely euphoric but may help correct an imbalance in the brain. Problem is, the use only results in throwing the levels far away from baseline, sometimes permanetely. SWIM has heard that the brain requires 6 months to a year to fully recover from long term opioid abuse; but SWIM is sure this varies from person to person.

    SWIM is personally on methadone maintainance as he just does not have the willpower or ability to go cold turkey and feel like shit at various levels for 6 months to a year waiting to recover. SWIM does not like the fact that he may be dependent on an opioid for the rest of his life; but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

    So good luck man, hope this may have helped.
     
  4. UNIBLACK810

    UNIBLACK810 Silver Member

    Age:
    40
    Reputation Points:
    29
    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    70
    First off i would like to thank you greatly MODA for replying to SWIM's thread as since SWIM has been a member I alway's enjoy reading your post, and response's. Such good input and information you provide. As for SWIM's occasional scrip useage it is very minimal. Maybe 3 or 4 times a month. couple of vic's 1 or 2 oc 40's. Not all at one time though. And what's crazy is is that SWIM swares he does not use it for a high, just to feel some type of normalcy or balance. At one point SWIM was diagnosed as bi polar. SWIM began taking med's and none did any good at all. But any opiate in any form make's SWIM feel like a normal person again. And just as you said the feeling "out of wack" was the reason SWIM started using. Also it is really upseting that there is no way you could even explain to any physician that the only thing that works both physically and mentally for you is an opiate without having them look at you as just some "ole junkie". SWIM was thinking of trying the methadone maintainence but SWIM is afraid of being hooked on the meth. SWIM has to do something. Thanks once again for your help.

    UNIBLACK810 added 10 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

    Very helpful. Good thought provoking point's. I had been reading up on some things about serotonin. endorphin's, and dopamine as SWIM was figuring that might be the underlying problem. SWIM has also read about the time to heal and SWIM is also sure this is a cause for variation. SWIM wants also to maybe try the methadone but is afraid of being "hooked on the meth. SWIM is very frightened behind the idea of being dependent of an opiate life long, but the way SWIM feels it may also have to be that way for SWIM. Besides SWIM has moved far away from where SWIM is originally from and SWIM knows nothing about where SWIM would go to get on methadone maintenance. SWIM does not like the fact of having to report to a clinic everyday either. Could SWIM get a scrip from a regular doctor for it? Anyways thanxs very much for your feedback. It was very helpful. This is why I love this site. Later
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2008
  5. moda00

    moda00 R.I.P.

    Reputation Points:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    628
    Thanks for your kind comments UNIBLACK810.

    god damn, if us swiys and swims could get methadone scripts like "normal people" (pain patients, etc. who do get it via the normal route) things would be a hell of a lot simpler. Something to hope for in better days to come. But addicts are treated with the kid gloves and the "you can't do anything right" approach, thus clinic attendance, one methadone clinic in my area has cameras in waiting rooms and bathrooms, etc. Bullshit imho.

    I read a study about the benefits of hospital based methadone maintenance in which a doc is seen 1-2 times a month and a script is given, these people had much better reintegration to society, I'll find it either in archive or add it if it's not there.

    Perhaps one cannot entirely generalize, but I would bet on the fact that there are some people who do not ever feel normal without opiates, and maintenance or prescription programs would be a good option to help these people and reduce harm, even though I have heard the 6-12 mos. thing and likely some people do completely recover, physically and mentally, as well.

    I gotta run to the bank before it closes in 21 minutes lol. Brb with that study if can find it :)
     
  6. UNIBLACK810

    UNIBLACK810 Silver Member

    Age:
    40
    Reputation Points:
    29
    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    70
    Yeah thats what I figured about the meth. But it was a good maybe for a minute though. Hope you catch the bank on time. Anways Swim will wait for that info later. Thanxs.
     
  7. Robbo

    Robbo

    Reputation Points:
    10
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    17
    Quite an old post, but had to reply, my mate sam knows exactly what you mean about takin it to feel 'normal' .. Whenever sam is straight she feels exactly the same as you have described, tired, bit down, never got any get up n go.. alive in her head but not in her body, this is alot of the reason why she started using again and has ended up with a habit again ( H ) , she was on a subutex script for 2 and a half yrs and that was when she felt her best, always had energy, instead of sittin around moping, if someone rang her up n said 'hey lets do this' instead of sitting there n thinking oh I cant be bothered shed be up n out , raring to go.. I am wondering whether I may have to be in treatment for the rest of my life, but like you that thought is quite scary.... I tried anti depressants, several kinds, they did nothing, i wouldnt of described myself as depressed anyway, but it was the doctor who suggested them as i said i was feeling tired all the time, no energy etc, several people suggested to me chronic fatigue syndrome , allergies to wheat/gluten, diabetes and other things i cant remember at this time of the morning lol, saying that all the symptoms i describe could be due to these things , I dont know, Anyway, im rambling now, and it is time for me to get to bed...

    Thanks for posting this.

    Robbo added 2 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

    Ahhh , im definatly tired, I forgot I was telling my friend sams story and accidently started writing as if it was about me ... forget me head if it werent screwed on !! Like I sed, that is that is sams story not mine, heaven forbid i would ever try drugs ! :s
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  8. doublezero

    doublezero Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    12
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    195
    swim says yes, but swim ate sort of healthy and exercised often, kept his brai nand mind active,,

    swiy may be noticing the pain that opiates wiped away, if so then your pains are permanent. swim advices u see a doctor. Swim advices a healthy life style, and if its your joints then cod liver oil or fish oils.

    swim says u will be fine, swims starting yoga, tai chi and tai quan do
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2009
  9. Morpheous

    Morpheous Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5
    I'm guessing this is the right place to post this, so here it goes.....

    To be honest, ive been thinkin the same thing, SWIM has been on and off H for years now but always been stabalised with some sort of pharm drug, either meth or subutex! SWIM is now off both and the "H" after 12 years but i tell ya what those bloody endorphines are a pain in the ass, dont get me wrong, they're great in small proportions but constantly?????? WTF!!!! SWIM feels like im shivering all day!!!

    On the plus side, the natural sleep is wonderful and the passing comments SWIM gets from friends about how I look are great and my energy level has gone through the roof (which isn't always a good thing!!)

    Anyways, anyone have any suggestions how to keep the shivers/endorphines from releasing so quicly, i guess it doesn't help its pissin down, fuckin freezin and windy as hell!!! lol

    Seriously tho, any tips would be greatlt appreciated!!!
     
  10. Robsa

    Robsa

    Age:
    46
    Reputation Points:
    2
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    13
    Yes, I think you forgot to type 'Sam said:"... somewhere. :)

    My thought is this person may be mentally still not over the addiction and as a result they dont feel physically as if they are. The fact that they are still occasionally taking tablets suggests to me that they are maybe thinking about it still.

    The mind is an amazingly powerful thing. Tell yourself you feel rough and you do. There was a recent clinical trial on acupuncture which found that it DID help migraine sufferers. However, so did randomly placed needles by someone pretending to be an experienced acupuncturist. If you think it will work, it will. Conversely, if you think you will never be normal again, you wont.

    I think that the OP should tell their friend to think about hypnotherapy. I hear it can be very effective. Or try NA which also really helps some people. In fact, all the addicts my friend has known, the only ones who ever got and stayed clean in the long term all went to NA.

    I have never read anywhere that the body never recovers/takes many years to recover from opiate addiction. My friend was addicted for about 8 years and once they got help and got clean they were back to normal in about 3 to 6 months. Remember there is often an underlaying reason why they are using in the first place, such as depression, and this could also be the reason if it is undiagnosed.
     
  11. doublezero

    doublezero Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    12
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Messages:
    195
    interesting robsa, swim has had acupuncture, in the ears, guided mediation,,,it worked, but was always a bit warey,,,,,,,

    and mental addiction is half the problem, cleart the mind, r
    efresh and re program, otherwise u will always go vback to smack or opiate based substances
     
  12. Robsa

    Robsa

    Age:
    46
    Reputation Points:
    2
    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    13
    Yep, in fact I would say mental addiction is 99% of the problem as the the worst of the physical withdrawal is over in maybe a month but your mind is going to be there for the rest of your life! If people don't want to be clean then they never will be, unless they get washed up on a desert island that is! And knowing addicts, they will still find a way to use :laugh:

    You can see them laying out twigs shaped to look like syringes or seaweed 'foil sheets'...
     
  13. artmayes167

    artmayes167 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    72
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    I am a lawyer. I am also the husband of a heroin addict who has been clean for 8 years. It has not been easy.

    Over the 7 years we have been together, I've developed a few theories. Take them with a grain of salt-- I am not a psychologist, but I have a 175 IQ and know quite a bit about psychology.

    The use of heroin is a substitute for emotional development. It induces a feeling of peace, where none actually exists. In that way, it is a window on spiritual and emotional development-- it shows you what you may eventually attain.

    But the world, at least in America, does not accept that people need time to develop emotionally and spiritually. So re-socialization can be very difficult. The easiest way is, of course, to go back on heroin and reject society.

    But there are better ways. Few of them as easy.

    Depressants, like vicodin, can fill the void, but they ignore the issue. The best option I've found is, at this late stage of development, to seek a spiritual teacher to help you deal with the rush of emotions that come as a result of the insensitive madness the world throws at you. Not any particular religion or spiritual philosophy-- each functions as well as any other-- just one that enables you to develop a better way to deal with things, to develop a way to realize the inner peace you found on heroin. Because that's the goal.

    Peace found in a substance will destroy you. Seek a lasting peace. There's no shame in feeling overwhelmed. We all feel overwhelmed. Some of us just have more effective ways of dealing with that.

    The worst part is how angry everybody seems, how violent. Imagine them as barking dogs. We don't hate the dogs for barking-- they simply don't know any better. They bark when they're angry, or afraid. So do we. And we can't expect them to understand their plights, but we can comfort them, or stay away when they're too crazed.

    Good luck, everybody. It's a strange and un-empathetic world. But there are others out there who understand. And there are better ways of dealing with the madness than retreating from it.
     
  14. ex-junkie

    ex-junkie

    Reputation Points:
    4,396
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,165
    swim cant remember what she felt like before opiates, so she doesnt know if she feels "normal" now. this has become her normal though. she feels pretty normal. not as energetic as she would have expected, but she doesnt exercise, and she is nearly 30, so she assumes its just part and parcel of getting older.

    the above poster is right, opiates retard you emotionally. whatever your emotional state was before opiates, is reverted back to afterwards. any underlying problems resume from where they were paused at.
     
  15. Master_Khan

    Master_Khan Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    425
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    492
    Just want to comment that there seems to be a lot of good advice on this thread as well as a couple of good theories. Swim would be happy to hear a story from someone who successfully overcame serious opiate addiction but discovered after a long period of sobriety that a small maintenance dose for the purpose of 'righting the ship' was actually a positive experience which led to improved functioning and happiness.

    UniBlack hasn't posted in about a month, so we send out an instant Kharma to Uni and pray him peace & well-being wherever he is.
     
  16. GutterPhenomenon69

    GutterPhenomenon69

    Reputation Points:
    -2
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    94
    Swim would suggest for you suboxone. Most ppl with long term opiate addiction need somethin to keep them feeling good and normal and NOT HIGH. Swim is on methadone tho at times wishes he got on suboxone since it is less addicting ps when swim did take suboxone it gave him alot of energy. Just a thought tho im sure swiy has heard of it before.
     
  17. Dickon

    Dickon

    Reputation Points:
    4,590
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,962
    My two cents worth for the original topic is yes. I do not hold with the whole "methadone is like insulin for diabetics" perspective. However, I do think that former opiate addicts do have to go the extra mile to get endorphin level to return to a respectable level. I think we're often looking at a minimum of 6-12 months recovery. My current pet physical activity for making one's body feel right is Yoga! I know of one person who found the first year or two off opiates (and everything else) to be really difficult but then found things got a lot better. For some, they feel great after a few weeks. So, I think a lot depends on the individual, and what they do after getting off, as well as how they feel about staying clean and life in general.

    Be well everyone

    Dickon
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  18. 0utrider

    0utrider Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,534
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,471
    for most of the endo-substances the body produces that you mentioned there is some kind of "anti-depressent"/chemical fix, e.g. ssri, snri etc etc.
    does such thing exist for endorphines?
     
  19. Euthanatos93420

    Euthanatos93420 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    716
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,325
    I saw the edit...but what's left still seems like good advice and the negative rep is rather misleading. I really asked the question not to disagree with the rep but to find out why it's bad advice when it sounds good in theory
     
  20. UNIBLACK810

    UNIBLACK810 Silver Member

    Age:
    40
    Reputation Points:
    29
    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    70

    I thAnk you guys so much for All of the feedbAck . & so much
    mAster KhAn for the khArm & prAyer. I would like to shAre some of my new experiences with you guy's. The wAter isnt deep so there is no need to swim here. I've found thAt one multi-vitAmin & A teAspoon of krAtom twice A dAy keeps me feeling normAl. Im not As tired,my energy is there,my mood doesnt constAntly shift,& the Aches & pAins hAve subsided. I've used this method for somewhAt of seven,eight months now & it hAs worked like A God send.Just something I mAde up to try on my own & it workd for me. I Am AwAre of the mu receptor binding properties of krAtom,so it tends to hAve the sAme opiAte like potentiAl for tolerAnce. However the opiAte effects of krAtom Are experienced in much higher doses Around 7-8 grms whereAs A teAspoon is equAl to Approx.2grms. This hAs worked so greAt for me thAt I 've recently obtAined my AA in fitness&nutrition & hAve become A personAl trAiner. But im still AfrAid this is to good to be true. I use this As A minimAl type mAintenAnce regimen & it helps me function properly. Does Anyone hAve Any input. Now I jump in the pool.........Remember SWIM wAs once A $300 A dAy Heroin & CocAine Addict for 12yrs. Swim hAs been off the H & C for A little over 3yrs. SWIM hAs come such A long wAy for whAtever it's worth. Where SWIM is from there is some of the purest H in the nAtion. ReAlly bAd withdrAwls(insAnely BAd). Swim went cold turkey & it wAs hell.SWIM couldnt ever imAgine normAlcy. Right now I think think this is As close As it gets. FeedbAck PleAse!! I love you guys!