Dosage and tolerance building with IV morphine

Discussion in 'Morphine' started by Memantine, Sep 9, 2006.

  1. Memantine

    Memantine Titanium Member

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    hello, SWIM's got 4 vials of 10 mg morphine hcl each, yesterday he spent the first one and fucked up with the injection (it was like 9,2 units one an insuline needle as he was unable to collect all the liquid from the vial) probably just passed thru his veins during the last units so the site where he put the needle swelled up with the rest of morphine which was absorved until 3-4 hours or so. SWIM wonders if this was inb fact what happened as he's read similar experiences before, though that was probably the reason maybe he did it too fast? anyway, any tips on injection would be welcomed.

    SWIM experienced the morphine,tho not as strong as he expected probably because of the loss of material mentioned above plus some tramadol and opiate use prior to yesterday. He also wonders if maybe his ntaural tolerance to opioids got on the way as he needs aprox 300 mg or more of codeine (to give an example, as it turns to morphine via the liver) to feel anything worth his money. He did some research and some sources say codeine is like 20% potency of morphine which leads to 15 mg of morphine needed to feel it strong as God intended to SWIM (which is, to SWIM, not an ordinary buzz but full on stupor and nodding). He's been told otherwise that 10 mg is a lot. Anything to say??

    And last but not least, how much would I had to wait to experience the morphine again, in regards to tolerance? opiate tolerance in the body builds up quickly and I dont want to ruin any more chances with this wonderful molecule. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    10 mg of morphine would certainly be enough to feel something in an opiate naive person. however if You has been doing other opiates then it may not be sufficient. I am guessing You may need more to feel something, even through the IV route, but to be very careful when dosing.

    swim cant offer any injection tips, really, maybe someone else can. but I can say that You should wait a couple weeks before using the morphine again if he wants tolerance to go down. maybe even a few weeks if You has had a long run with the opiates. it takes quite some time for opiate tolerance to decrease.
     
  3. Memantine

    Memantine Titanium Member

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    well, SWIM's havent been binging on strong opiates this week, just codeine i dunno what day anb tramadol, aprox 100 mg a tuesday and a thursday. with tramadol SWIM's tolerance usually goes down to normal by waiting a day but that may not apply with any interaction it may have with classic opiates as morhpine- still, the morphine hit SWIM enough to crave it and think about taking it soon soon soon. I have a limited amount so dont worry about it, but 1-2 weeks seems a bit too excessive, i was thinking about 3-4 days as I have just taken the shit listed above and nothing stronger for a while.
    It may be of notice that tramadol hits SWIM very nicely, unlike most people, i guess he's lucky.

    This question may sound stupid but, would you consider a person "opiate naive" if it had taken H, hydrocodone, fentanyl, tramadol, codeine and oxys ion the past but has its blood stream clean enough to start over or there's just one time when youre opiate naive, then you become plain clean or a nicer name like "virtually opiate naive person". because thats my case.
     
  4. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    It really depends on how long ago You took the H, Hydrocodone, Fentanyl etc. If You really wants to experience the maximum effects of the morphine wait at least 1 week preferably 2 without ANY opiate use at all including Tramadol or codeine. If You finds this too hard because he's dependant then he really shouldnt be considering slamming morphine.

    As to advice on injecting You should check out heroinhelper, the site was most helpful to SWIF in his early days.

    A note on dosage, if SWIF's body is opiate free for 2 weeks and he hasnt been using heavily recently (last month or two) then 10-15mg should be pleanty. Careful when injecting however as the Histamine release of morphine can give you pins and needles and make it hard to breathe.
     
  5. Memantine

    Memantine Titanium Member

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    Well, I dont wanna appear like a fiend or anything but ill keep on asking as thats the way SWIM's obsessive-compulsive mind gets any peace... I havent indulged in any strong opiate (unless you count tramadol as a strong opioid) for months, only codeine now and then and the last time was as SWIM cn remember far from a week or 2. As said before, last tramadol consumption was made thursday last week, 100 mg plus paracetamol to boost the effects. I amnt dependent on any opiate/opioid and finds he has a strong will, but still he's very curious and excited about this pure batch of morphine and would like to go deep on the nod ASAP. Are you sure a week is the minimun in your opinion? Could tueday or wednesday be suitable?
    I am in no way a newbie on this subject and respects opiates a hell of a lot, its just that circumstances are perfect now for his experimentations. It should be of note that when indulging in any opiate, SWIM never gets out of hand with use, no heavy use, the most would be tramadol which would be 2 times a week max (sometimes 3), all other opiates are more restricted as they are harsher on the body, I would do codeine more often if it wasnt so shitty.

    my gonna check out the site you put, hopes it helps, but as experience has proven, mainlining is an art and even if youve done it enough to become familiarized with it, you'll still sometimes miss and muscle-shot, I guess this time SWIM fucked up because of moving the syringe too much for pulling the plunger to see if blood went in (did that like 5 times before the shit was all in). thats all thanks.
     
  6. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    AS I mentioned before, for the Maximum effect You would have to wait for a week as a minimum however if You waits a couple of days im sure he will have a very enjoyable experience. Everything is relative...

    Tramadol and codeine are relatively weak opiates however do still give some tolerance to stronger opiates however minor. In SWIF's oppinion any IV use is heavy of any substance, not to say he hasnt done it but when SWIF IV's substances he knows it's gonna be hardcore and that he's pushing the limits.

    In relation to mainlining with practice it can be done exceptionally well, SWIF has had alot of practice at his occupation as well as his recreational use but now he very rarely misses a vein on himself or another. That said a completely sterile rig does aid that significantly.
     
  7. Memantine

    Memantine Titanium Member

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    Well, if it is on any interest to you, SWIM waited for a week and a bit more and then did his shot of 10 mg. Now he's def sure he's got a ntural high tolerance to opiates, as previously suggested with his past experiences, especially with codeine (which SWIM relys on only because it turns to morphine, like heroin, which by istelf also didnt do too much as I expected). The rush was good but not as awesome as depicted by most. SWIM actually had to dose later on some codeine he had laying around to really get on the nod which is SWIM's preference and primary reason for sporadically doing opiates, the dose was the "equivalent" (if we really can talk about something like that) to 10 more mgs of morphine. The only "opioid" he uses and affects him on the low end of nautral tolerance is Tramadol which he enjoys a lot.

    Now, I am thinking about moving up to 15 mg, or perhaphs maybe even 20 which may prove dangerous especially alone, but equivalencies showed in the past experience demonstrated that it may not, even respiratory depression was insufficient to worry about. SWIM deosnt want to push the envelope, but when using 15 mg next time he faces 2 problems:

    he only has 2 vials left (nº 1 problem, as he doesnt know if to do 10 and 10, 15 and 5 or 12.7 and 7.5 mgs), and he doesnt know how to store the remaining 5mg on the remaining 0.5 ml of the vial (ptoblem nº2, what to do with a broken vial?) and what use could he do with it later on (well, I could put the rest in a syringe but for how long till it fucks up?)

    thanks in advance.
     
  8. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    Thats probably as he enjoys the SSRI effects of tramadol as oppose to the weak opiate effects. Then again You might be right im not sure.

    1) SWIF would advise doing the usual 10mg, then filling up the second syringe with the other 10mg. (remember to use a differant injection site). You then could inject the second 10mg, at 0.5mg at a time until the desired intensity is reached this will only allow for the first inital rush to be equivelant of the 10mg however the more sedative euphoric effects will be more pronounced when adding the extra doses. Remember that IV administration is virtually instantanious so the peak effects will be felt almost instantly allowing the user to gauge the strength.

    It's important however if You is pushing the higher limits of IV use particularly with opiates that he has a sober sitter so that they can call an ambulance etc should he stop breathing. If this isnt available at least some sort of safety person should be designated. Ie call someone and keep talking to them while administering the morphine etc, or Type a word every 60 seconds on a messaging service like msn. And if you become unresponisve they can again ring an ambulance.

    2)

    Morphine and most other opiates keep pretty well in a sealed bottle, buy something from the pharmacy like "Surgical spirit" or Cough mixture. Empty it, clean it and put the vials contents inside, it'll keep for a good few months.

    Hope i helped feel free to ask more.
     
  9. mfrieze

    mfrieze Silver Member

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    vials of morphine

    Swim just got 5 vials that contin 10mg of morphine in them. What would be a good dose and how does swim consume it... Put in water and drink?
     
  10. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    those vials are meant for injection. look to see if they give the inactive ingredients on the vial. check to see if these other ingredients are safe for oral use (they probably will be, but it never hurts to check). orally, You could start off with 10 mg. 5-10 mg rectal might be even more effective, but for someone with no opiate tolerance, 10 mg oral is good to start with. like SWIM always says, you can dose up, but you can never dose down.

    does anyone know of any potential harm from orally consuming vials? swim and other lab rats have consumed vials of diazepam this way (CAREFULLY measuring the dosages, however), and seemed to have no ill effects. but I want confirmation from someone else before saying, okay, go ahead and consume these vials.
     
  11. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    SWIF has consumed pure Morphine Sulphate (the non oral form pure drug) with no issues except for the horrid taste. SWIF assumes this is similar to the vials that are used for injection.

    SWIF would advice that You should not inject especially for his first time when he will be naive to opiates. If he does choose to inject start with a very low dose like 3-5mg.
     
  12. mickenator

    mickenator Titanium Member

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    SwiPrimal440 I would leave well alone as in my experience, from the way you talk your one step from a full blown addict. Swim used to look for that feeling but now it only makes me feel ' normal '.
     
  13. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    Those dosages arent nearly those of a full blown addict that primal reports. However the mentality may be there and caution should ALWAYS be used with opiates since daily use can and will easily lead to addiction, regardless of how much or how little of an "addictive personality" You has.
     
  14. mickenator

    mickenator Titanium Member

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    If possible and you can control the urges I would advise people ton use extreme caution when it comes to any form of opiate usage as these are highly adictive and can wreck your life. :yes-no:
     
  15. Memantine

    Memantine Titanium Member

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    It's been long since I visited this thread as I thought it was dead...

    I must say I was very cautious with his morphine experiment, yes indeed he was looking for that "feeling" but SWIM knew what he was getting into, and the most important fact: there's no way I could have ended up as an addict as SWIM's source for Morphine was very scarce to start with and unfortunately now dead. He was just looking to get the most of his vials as he enjoys the opiate buzz a lot. But the buzz he looks for is full-blown nodding, a situation in which he plans ahead of time (a week) to be alone and enjoy its effects, he would never use opiates to function in "real life" it feels like a waste of time and substance to him, he likes to exploit even the slightest subtleties out of them. Also the lingering effects for the second day dont make SWIM a candidate for an addict. I couldn't tell it the source was steady and cheap tho. The only thing I am certain is that there are substances far more addicting for him than morphine and similar, but i reiterate, thats is exclusively for SWIM and he is sure most population wouldn't react the same way...

    I would also like to add to the vial discussion: first of all 10 mgs of morphine wont do anything to SWIX if taken orally; injectable form or not, because of Morphine's poor oral bioavailability. But I know someone else who took these IV vials, like 5 of them because he didn't like needles and no ill-effects were apparent except for some nausea which could be easily attributed to morphine itself. He has also seen people taking Lorazepam out of injectable solution vials, with no ill effects either, also orally, wouldn't know rectally. I'm no human biology expert but common sense tells me that if something doesn't hurt your blood, it probably wont hurt your organs as they among their other many functions serve as a barrier between the outside and the endogenous of the endogenous (read blood). However dont take this as a fact or advice, you never know if your stomach, liver or rectal mucous membranes might have a weak spot for preservants, it's just my humble layman reasoning.

    --------
    And I feel compelled to answer to this:
    Originally Posted by primal440
    The only "opioid" he uses and affects him on the low end of nautral tolerance is Tramadol which he enjoys a lot. .

    Thats probably as he enjoys the SSRI effects of tramadol as oppose to the weak opiate effects. Then again You might be right im not sure.
    --------

    There's no doubt the SSRI effects from Tramadol give it some of its magic for SWIM, its extremely noticeable because he can easily turn outwards as opposed with real opiates when he doesnt care about the world at all, also because of the mild stimulation and othe reported effects you probably are familiar with. However with so much experience at hand I can say that what he likes most of it its the "weak opiate effects" that dont seem weak at all to SWIM, he feels almost like in Heroin but a bit more lucid. BUT he has noticed a correlation between the SSRI mechanics and the opiate's, it seems as if SSRI starts first and then triggers the opiate binding. There are 2 things that support this idea:
    1- whenever I have taken a serotonin depleting compound and the next day takes some Tramadol, he never gets doped out but just stays practically the same for the duration of the effects: good mood and at the end something resembling the fart of a nod. Even the mood change is subtle.
    2- When I takes Tramadol with full serotonin on his brain, the first 2-3.5 hours are of an uplifting nature, more outgoing, etc. When he hits this mark he gradually becomes inmersed into the opiate stage of tramadol, and at the 4 hour mark he's nodding at full mode and the opiate buzz gets stronger. It must be noted tho that the first effects he ever gets from Tramadol is also this opiate buzz, but much weaker, this is the sign for him that the Tram is working. This is all with 100-150 mgs dosages. You get much more "opiated" with 200 mgs I would say.

    Sorry for the long post... maybe the Tram part should be moved to Tramadol experiences??
    oh and by the way thanks Fantasian, the Morphine remained intact with your method.
     
  16. Fantasian

    Fantasian Gold Member

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    No problem, always here to help :)