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drugs that could trigger schizophrenia?

Discussion in 'Pharmacology' started by doggy_hat, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. doggy_hat

    doggy_hat Newbie

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    I recently found out that paranoid schizophrenia runs in his family on his dad's side(Infact his great grandfather committed suicide during a psycotic episode) and was wondering how various recreational drugs could possibly trigger schizophrenia in him. I am aware that strong hallucinogen drugs such as LSD-25 can trigger schizophrenia but was wondering how other drugs could possibley affect him.
     
  2. Pondlife

    Pondlife Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Some studies have shown a correlation between cannabis use and mental illness. Here is a thread which discusses this: https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36127

    Such a correlation does not necessarily mean that cannabis causes mental illness, but it would certainly be worth considering and caution would be advised.

    It is also known that many drugs that increase dopamine levels such as amphetamine can cause psychosis. This is a common symptom of schizophrenia, but that doesn't necessarily mean that amphetamine causes schizophrenia. However, as with cannabis extreme caution would be advised.

    A google for the dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia will turn up some useful links.
     
  3. razorwiredildo

    razorwiredildo Silver Member

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    drugs such as meth and cocaine that cause surges of dopamine could possibly exascerbate psychotic symptoms as a abnormal sensitivity to dopamine is believed to be a major factor in schizophrenia. These drugs probably can't cause or trigger schiz. very often, but if someone has a very mild case or is in the beginning stages, these frugs could definately make thngs worse. Hallucinogens, as you have said, are something to be very careful around, but more than anything, you need to avoid extreme stress, which is a definate trigger of schiz and can be caused by a plethora of dugs.
    opiates and benzos seem to be a low risk for a schizo, but are also extremely addictive.
    If I was a schizophrenic he would probably just stick with cannabis. This is not guaranteed to be ok, but the risk is fairly low.
     
  4. doggy_hat

    doggy_hat Newbie

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    Thanks for the info. I will try to stay away from Dopamine increasing drugs, and read up some more.

    I have definently noticed that amphetamine-like drugs mess with his head too much. When he was younger he used to be able to snort concertas or adderalls and be able to enjoy the body high and the increased motivation, ect. The last time he snorted concertas(500+mg), he spent nearly the entire night in the fetal position warning his friends not to talk so they won't be heard by anybody, because he feared that people were after him. He was hearing voices in other rooms and could imagine people preparing to kill him in his mind's eye. The entire night he felt like he was going to have a heart attack from the paranoia and was completely delusional. After he sobers up he felt fine, but still, SWIM can't enjoy speedy drugs anymore because he becomes too delusional and paranoid every time.
     
  5. razorwiredildo

    razorwiredildo Silver Member

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    It is possible that the hallucinations and delusions are just the result of an amphetamine overdose. (500 mgs of concerta is a LOT) But if psychotic symptoms still manifest themselves at more reasonable doses, then it sounds like they may be exascerbating symptoms of an already present schizophrenia which would mean that You needs to get help asap. A genetic predisposition to the disease probably would not explain the psychotic symptoms that You gets when tweaking. That sounds more like a low level or early stage of schizophrenia. I don't want to scare You unecessarily, obviously because i cannot possibly know for sure. You sounds like he still has his head though, and even if he does have schizophrenia, if it is caught early, treatment is very effective, and can quite possibly get swiys brain back to functioning as if he never was sick. I obviously don't know your situation, but from what you say, this would be my gues of your circumstances. Good Luck.
     
  6. doggy_hat

    doggy_hat Newbie

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    SWIM also gets paranoia at lower levels, once he snorted only 20Mg adderall and although by no means he wasn't becoming delusional the entire time he was looking behind his back out of fear. And wasn't even able to listen to music because it made him too paranoid if he wasn't able to hear if someone was coming.

    There has been times where I have had similar situations completely sober. There's even been a few times when he has had visual hallucinations, although he realized they were not real, except for one time. But they are short lived and he realizes that he just wasn't thinking straight. I have talked to friends about it before, but has never seeked professional help before. He can still function normally, so he's never gave it much worry, and doesn't think any type of treatment is necessary. however, learning about his families history has caused him to take the situation a bit more seriously. Out of curiosity, what is the treatment like?
     
  7. razorwiredildo

    razorwiredildo Silver Member

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    You says he has hallucinations while sober? If so, that is definately cause for concern, especially if there was a time that he thought it was real. You may possibly be in the prodromal phase of schizophrenia in which many of the symptoms people have are nonspecific and somewhat negligible, so many assume there is nothing wrong. Many people can function normally at the beginning. It really couldn't hurt to go see a psichiatrist even just once. With swiys family history and his symptoms it seems like a good idea to see someone. This link has more info on symptoms if You is curious. http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm. Treatment for schiz is generally drug treatment with some type of antipsychotic. If necessary some people recive things like social rehabilitation and the like, but You seems like he won't have any need for that.
     
  8. AutumnDestinyHunter

    AutumnDestinyHunter Silver Member

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    My neighbor was a heavy meth user, in fact he is now in prison for manufacture of the drug. His two drugs of choice were pot and meth. When he tried to clean up, he was unable to do so because he would have episodes of severe violence and paranoid delusions. He admitted himself to a treatment center, and was then diagnosed with schizophrenia. His doctors there told him it was directly related to meth. He had to be put on 900 mgs of Seroquel per day and Depacote and will have to stay on this medication to prevent his violent, schizophrenic outbursts.

    It runs in my family as well...on my father's side, I think because I have a half brother that was diagnosed with it several years back. To my knowledge, the only drug he used is pot, but he could have used other drugs as well, seeing as how his sister was married to a meth cook in Texas...she and her husband are fine and have cleaned up, and my brother has been clean, but was diagnosed after he stopped using. There may be a possible correlation between pot and the disease, but it's really hard to say. My advice would be to listen to your body. If you start "not feeling right in the head" when you're sober...I would definately say take a break from any drug use, and if it continues, see a counselor and keep a log of what and how you feel in order to help them monitor your mental state. Early detection is vital...it can mean the difference between living a normal life and living a life in an institution...
     
  9. lulz

    lulz Gold Member

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    Glutamate is the other neurotransmitter that may be involved in schizophrenia http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000116/CH114.html

    So it's likely that NMDA antagonists (NMDA receptors are a type of glutamate receptor) like ketamine and PCP are probably a bad idea.
     
  10. KillroyMindless

    KillroyMindless Newbie

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    lol that early sighns website scares the living shit out of me but what ever what happens happens man dont get caught up in thinking your going to go insane it just makes you feel paranoid my families got everything in the book. you should be ok and if you start becoming not unless youra hermit people will notice your starting to slip.
     
  11. Politicalchalk

    Politicalchalk Titanium Member

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    Swim notices this post is a little old, but...

    schizophrenia is a genetic gig. There are drugs, super-stimulants and psychedelic drugs which could act as a catalyst towards inducing schizo-type symptoms, but odds are, if you're family has a long history of crazy, you'll inherit it regardless of the chemical additives you....well, add.
     
  12. kaczynski

    kaczynski Newbie

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    Cocaine. I got all fucked up after a year of cocaine binging and is now medicated with a small daily dose of seroquel, an anti-psychotic. Turns out his mom's cousin was a paranoid schizophrenic who threw himself off a highway overpass into oncoming traffic.
     
  13. lostmente

    lostmente Silver Member

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    I has transient behavioral psychosis, at least after 6 months in a psychotherapeutic community thats what the registrar told him.

    Self limiting behavior tends to fly out the window with psychosis, as does identifying other peoples perspective of reality.

    Strong drugs can certainly lead to increased awareness, but I think psychosis kicks in when you get caught up with something you find a lead on, get imaginative and peruse it beyond your means with too much emotional commitment.

    One can disembody but its quite soul destroying, and you know it at the time but it doesn't matter. The true reality that is hidden(?) from you, the one that will set you free is what you seek, a short cut to eternity.
     
  14. sylenth

    sylenth Palladium Member

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    these signs are very much ripe in my family. but i reckon most drugs can cause this, like lostmente said with peoples imaginations getting the better of them. i know a guy who used alot of drugs that is really battling with life says he has been to hell & back. i can relate & i believe him from understanding what he could of gotten his mind into through the things he has let get to him too much in this world. yeah there is a easy way out to eternity if you believe in that, but that takes quite alot of courage. & people say they weak...
     
  15. lostmente

    lostmente Silver Member

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    Eternity is inevitable and completely avoidable, moments must count for something more than just a part of everything..else why bother with them in the first place. Seems silly for this existance to be a means for anything other than meaning, circular maybe but fuck...aint everything?

    lostmente added 12 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

    was that tangent?

    well maybe this goes somewhere,
    hallucinogenics are very potentiating of creation, they have a tendancy to bridge thoughts, feelings and experiences. This allows for a sense of connectivity within yourself, others, events all the way to oblivion if you wish. We all hold onto things that just don't work that well, if you start integrating one poor idea with a bunch of previously unrelated ideas then you can end up with a great deal of strife. Maybe it will pass and you can see where the original problem lay, or maybe you go with it till you cannot bear to suffer no more and begin to act out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
  16. stoneinfocus

    stoneinfocus Newbie

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    I really don't know, wtf shizophrenia is?

    -Oh, cool, any true sign of a true conspiracy, or things happening in dicatures, or simple criminal attacks are delusional.


    Yep, nothing happened, no WWII, no Ghettos, no Concentration Camps, no 3mio. death-toll in those alone, no research done there, conspiracies are bullshit, those ended in Nuernberg, and this world especially, is as free of conspiracies as it'd never been before.

    No Vietnam, no cold war, no CIA, no FBI, no concentration camps today, no torture, no WTCs (D'uh),
    no world wide police activities, no wars, no terror-capitalism, no religion, no OECD, no terror in democratic governments.

    Wealth, happieness, peace and all that worldwide, of course, and nothing strange'S happening to nobody, that could be refered to as being just remotely delusional, all the while.

    And the part of symptoms, that's just describing certain personal problems (which can also be affected by constant terror and supression as a normal reaction in anybody), which were desciptive to swim's mother, but because she has to be right, and I am gay and as such the cause of all the problems (it's the other way around, as being gay is wrong, so being gay, actually, was the true reason for others being or getting shizophrenic, but not that the shizophrenics were treated, the gays), he had to be guilty. Kill em, already, won't you, can't be wrong, it'd be worth it... no more conspiracies, you know... sorry, no more shizophrenia.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2008
  17. vantranist

    vantranist Silver Member

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    lol all of them?
     
  18. waytoofertile

    waytoofertile Newbie

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    I was flipping channels the other day and I can't remember who had him on Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart but this guy had his entire DNA mapped out, then put it online. He found out exactly what diseases he had, was at risk for, etc. You could try that and see if they have located the gene for schizophrenia and if you have it.

    To go a more conventional route go to a psychiatrist, tell him your concerns and ask for the MMPI test. It's called the Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory. You cannot fake this test, it's virually impossible and it will tell you if you are bipolar or have borderline personality disorder or paranoid schizophrenia and everything in between, I think you can even be diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder.

    I studied about it while I worked on my master's in psych and it was fasinating. If you try to trick it it catches you at it. We all had to take it, THAT was embarassing and very illuminating.
    I do remember reading alot about the damges of things like LSD on the brain but don't recall any mention in the texts of a correlation between drugs and schizophrenia. Definite genetic predisposition to watch for though. THAT was a major factor.
    I wish you all the best esp. in the mental health area.

    Blessed Be

    waytoofertile added 1 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

    I was flipping channels the other day and I can't remember who had him on Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart but this guy had his entire DNA mapped out, then put it online. He found out exactly what diseases he had, was at risk for, etc. You could try that and see if they have located the gene for schizophrenia and if you have it.

    To go a more conventional route go to a psychiatrist, tell him your concerns and ask for the MMPI test. It's called the Minnesota Multi-Phasic Personality Inventory. You cannot fake this test, it's virually impossible and it will tell you if you are bipolar or have borderline personality disorder or paranoid schizophrenia and everything in between, I think you can even be diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder.

    I studied about it while I worked on my master's in psych and it was fasinating. If you try to trick it it catches you at it. We all had to take it, THAT was embarassing and very illuminating.
    I do remember reading alot about the damges of things like LSD on the brain but don't recall any mention in the texts of a correlation between drugs and schizophrenia. Definite genetic predisposition to watch for though. THAT was a major factor.
    I wish you all the best esp. in the mental health area.

    I'm still a newbie so if this helped please rate it, ok? I need the help!
    Blessed Be
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2009
  19. RX420

    RX420 Banned

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    dxm could def trigger it in my friends opionion.
     
  20. chibi curmudgeon

    chibi curmudgeon Gold Finger Gold Member

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    If you're still paying attention to this thread...

    I suggest this guy stay away from not only amphetamines, but also, as mentioned, coke and things like PCP, DXM, stuff like that. He should be okay with benzos and opioids as far as recreation goes, but I wouldn't risk anything that could cause paranoia, hallucinations, etc. If that's already a problem, it's stupid to make it worse.

    If he can function okay without medication, I say go for it. Medication for schizophrenia can be devastating, even fatal. There are no good antipsychotic drugs, only ones that aren't quite as horrible as others. Seeing a therapist (not a psychiatrist) to talk about things might be a good idea; they can give good advice on coping with the symptoms. Therapists can't prescribe you drugs, and (at least in the U.S.) no one can force you to take drugs unless you're an immediate danger to yourself or others.