Opinions - Drugs will never be legalised. Deal with it.

Discussion in 'Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics' started by Zoidberg, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Titanium Member

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    Firstly, the thread title is deliberately provocative ;) However it is my personal opinion that blanket legalisation/decriminalisation/'controlled distribution' etc. will never happen.

    Just look at how bad things are at the moment with regards to the impact of the war on drugs. The violence, the devastation, the dangerous misinformation and everything else. Even with all that pointing towards the need for a drastic change in policy, very few people in power have the balls to do anything about it. Just look at all the recent 'ex' politicians, police chiefs and so on who've had their say. They never had the balls to speak up when their opinions mattered because they knew they'd lose votes and maybe even their jobs.

    Everyone's too self-interested to suggest anything big that might upset the masses. The mere hint of anything approximating 'legalisation' is enough to make many otherwise reasonable people switch off altogether. It doesn't matter what the science says when the tabloids run stories about LSD-addicted 5 year olds mistaking their hamsters for play-doh and squeezing them through plastic mincing machines.

    The end.
     
  2. salgoud

    salgoud Silver Member

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    Can you foresee the future? IMO-drugs may be decriminalized in my Country, the US. The reason I say that is because I have 55 years of life under my belt, and at least 40 years with the law enforcement where I had at different places at different times.

    The cops, FBI, DEA, Border Patrol - all deep in their hearts I really think they enforcing drug possession it is a losing battle, and billions upon billions of dollars are spent each year by these agencies (oh don't forget the ATF) to divert pharmaceutical drugs, imported illegal drugs, imported legal chemicals, and put a stop to all of it. It seems they have too much on their plate, to make even a dent in the diverted drugs.

    We house over 1,000,000 inmates in which over 60% are there for drugs possession. That costs the taxpayers all lot of money at 40,000-70,000 dollars an inmate. It's approximately $60 billion dollars. That's not including what has to be paid the the Judicial system to incarcerate an inmate and supervise him while on parole or probation.

    I was at the bus stop about a week ago and a fella named Roy came up and said aren't you Leo. I said; "Yea, I thought you got 10 years for "Distribution of a Controlled Substance, to wit; Herion." He said that's correct, I did 2 years and they booted me out to a half-way house. He said he took every class they offered, and I'm up the street at ***Cor. I said, "Man, I never heard about someone getting out so soon, but if you were considered a Model Prisoner, that makes sense." I said.

    Also we have Medical Marijuana every where in my City. Pot growing in warehouses all across town.

    I think before I die they will have "decriminalized drugs" which is a far cry from "legalization". I don't think they should be "legalized" but they should be "decriminalized". It would free up a lot of money, and we citizens of the US need unnecessary money being thrown away, to put someone in prison for a hot UA or possessing a drug.

    So IMO that is what I believe will happen, "decriminalization".

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  3. 6Sh00t3r

    6Sh00t3r Silver Member

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    I have to disagree.Please allow me to explain :

    Any drug(s) ,(and especially marijuana presently which has a chance more soon) can only be legalized when the majority (even if a small larger percent) in the U.S.A. and countries who have the right to petition a vote to happen,thus win legalization with a larger voting majority vote them to be legalized.But most likely in a controlled environment ensuring it will be impossible for the recreational users of them to ever have any way to give them to anyone else not legally able to have them for whatever reasons.

    It can happen and is inevitable for marijuana to be legalized eventually to most all of the general public.Drugs such as heroin can actually be safely used if done in a controlled environment administered by those trained to administer it,but even then for that substance it would only be given in spaced out time so recessional users that choose to feel the effects of it would not be given enough to build up their tolerance in case they were in an accident requiring opiate medication(s) for pain if they were involved in some accident.

    The method to get any drug legalized for recreational use that will not harm a person when used in the right way or interfere with adverse affects to illness(') or prescribed medications they have to take ,or prescribed medications they choose to take will only come when enough people work together well organized to outnumber the people who are against it like anything that has ever been voted by the people for the people to have the natural given right to have.Life is short & that reason should be part of the campaign to legalize any drug that when used in a way no harm will come will lead not only to the pursuit of happiness but actually give a more happy life.

    Giving up in any fight will not win any fight :) I say let all who want more happiness in life through harmless use of most any drug producing more euphoria,(more enhanced happiness ) in life to not only fight but better organize as one , then fight to win.

    The world has been changed many times with masses of people demanding changes to those many things only while well organized for the changes.That will be the only solution for this change millions want , but like you say many are afraid to face it head on.An army is not built in one day.We must build the army first,then charge the situation with an army of not soldiers , but voters.Then a forced change will happen because more want the change than ones who do not.

    To control the politicians votes they must be made to act in favor before they get the actual promised votes to keep them in and out if they oppose in the future once in.If those who want the change only elect politicians in who are in the ranks who are in favor of certain recreational drug(s) use ,then they can be kept in office once the numbers for use outnumber those against.That would allow all against to be voted out eventually ,then kept out.Then the change would have a chance to never be unchanged.The power to make amendments to the entire country`s Constitution`s to ensure it could never be unchanged could then be made.

    Never give up :)

    PEACE : 6Sh00t3r
     
  4. MikePatton

    MikePatton Titanium Member

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    70 years ago it was illegal for a black man to look into a white woman's eyes in the U.S, not to mention the whole racial separation bullshit you guys had going on until the 60s.

    My point being that shit changes, even the shit that seems to be set in stone & taken for granted in your lifetime, one day people will be looking back at it and laughing their ass off, I just hope (and estimate) that I'll live to see it happen.

    we're about 70 years into prohibition (weed-wise) so shit ought to change soon as far as I'm concerned.

    Peace.
     
  5. Plasma

    Plasma Silver Member

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    I can understand the feeling of this, especially living in the UK where the so called 'left-centre' party decides to schedule cannabis as class B (above Ketamine and GHB). The Liberal Democrats recently voted in favour of commissioning a panel which would consider decriminalisation/legalisation of some drugs. Then again, as I'm sure a lot of people living in the UK will know that the Lib Dems haven't exactly made their presence known in the government. I expect this report will be piled on the many others over the past few decades, which all come to the same conclusion.

    Having said that, I believe the USA will make important steps. The first step is cannabis legalisation, support has been climbing high (no pun intended) for decades now and as we saw last year with Prop 19, the gap was hardly large between yes and no voters (7 per cent I believe). I would expect the real support figure was a little closer, but older generations are way more likely to vote. When Cannabis is legalised in whatever state (and I believe this will happen within the next 6 years) and people realise the tax benefits, less spending on drug enforcement and no significant use of cannabis increase, then I would expect other drugs to at least be decriminalised.

    When this is all done, then Western countries will follow suit. Imagine how embarrassing it would be to US policy makers if their good friend the UK reinvents their adopted drug policy and exceeds tremendously. That's why I don't really believe that change can be had without the big USA's approval (however I hope I'm wrong on that one). The only exception is if the NDP (RIP Jack Layton) win the next Canadian election. They have always been very vocal on a health based drug policy.

    Of course I could be entirely wrong and we won't see any change within the next 10 years or so. But I do believe that sanity will take its rightful place in drug policy in due time. I would imagine a major setback if someone like Rick Perry becomes the next US President.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  6. salgoud

    salgoud Silver Member

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    I agree that drugs will never be "legalized". That would be absolute lunacy. Marijuana does have this chance, being that if you want to spend the money to see the pot doctor and have the money to be registered with the State, you can go to any of the 200 dispensaries in my city of about 300,000 and get 50-80 strains of marijuana legally. Really, IMO, it is already legalized because it is so easy to get an OK from the doctor and then get your registration card.

    As far as heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, LSD, MDMA and other dangerous drugs, to legalize them would put the country in question in a state of lunacy. However, decriminalization for personal use I believe will happen some day. Mainly in the Western Countries. Remember, there is a big difference between legalization and decriminalization. For example, in Portugal, when you get caught with drugs on your person there is a system in place to label you a drug user, they require some kind of treatment but they don't lock you up.

    Decriminalization would free so many people from prisons and instead of wasting the money on housing these prisoners (some first offenders), the money could be better spent on treatment centers and true rehabilitation. Prisons do not rehabilitate, they just make one a better criminal. The meth cooks get together and talk about how they made meth and how they obtained chemicals, etc. And other inmates learn of new syntheses and when they get out, many follow through with it.

    Legalization would just create a World of drug addicts able to get their drugs at the local pharmacy or through illegal channels. I think legalization of pot will happen, and I never think legalization of hard drugs will ever happen.

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  7. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Titanium Member

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    Salgoud, I agree with your view of the massive flaws of full 'legalisation', hence the references to decriminalisation and controlled distribution in my first post. And I also agree with you that decriminalisation would take a huge weight off the prison system. I don't know what the stats are in the US but UK prisons are at crisis point at the moment. There's only something like 2000 places left, although much of the recent influx of prisoners is down to unusually strict sentences imposed on perpetrators in the recent riots. However we're (relatively) lucky in the UK as first-time offenders are rarely imprisoned for possession offences.

    The Portuguese system should be an inspiration to policy makers, and it's certainly piqued the interest of one of the major parties in the UK. However it'd take a drastic cultural shift for either of our countries to adopt these policies. Maybe it'll happen one day, in the distant future, although I very much doubt it'll be in any of our lifetimes.

    By all means, keep fighting the fight as another poster said, but the mentality of personal gain over scientific understanding and progress that's ingrained in our leaders is going to take a long, long time to wash out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  8. I nearly november every-

    I nearly november every- Silver Member

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    I do not find it hard to see psychedelics being legalized within a handful of generations, especially not for instance mushrooms which grow naturally all around us.

    To quote a familiar wise man;

    "Progress of human civilization in the area of defining human freedom is not made from the top down. No king, no parliment, no government ever extended to the people more rights than the people insisted upon. We simply have to say, we are not going away. We are not slack-jawed, dazed, glazed, unemployable psychotic creeps. We are pillars of society. You can't run your computers, your fashion houses, your publishing houses, your damn magazines, you can't do anything in culture without psychedelic people in key positions."

    If all those other oppressed groups (women, African-Americans, gays, what have you) managed to get tired enough of their oppression to rise up and make a stand, why not? Imagine what would actually happen if psychedelic enthusiasts everywhere came out of the closet and said "I guess you don't want a criminal working here, so you just keep going without me until I can ingest whatever plants I like in the privacy of my own home."

    No, really, take a look around, observe how many highly influential people are obviously tripping, imagine how many more of them must be tripping in secret, and all we are waiting for is the psychedelic Rosa Parks who sparks the psychedelic Stonewall. You want the obvious basic right to control your own consciousness, INSIST ON IT.

    Oh sorry I never saw that soapbox until it was too late
     
  9. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    As, Pasma siad the lead may have to come from the USA. As they have bullied other countries into following their own drug war madness, relaxing it in the US would be a powerful incentive elsewhere. Elites have a habit of wanting to control the intoxicants the masses use, even whilst using them themselves.

    US power globally is waning. The only problem with that is that the emerging powerful nations hardly haver better drug laws, except that India tolerates cannabis, unofficially but of the other BRICS, who is more tolerant?
     
  10. salgoud

    salgoud Silver Member

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    If the US global influence is waning, I am glad. We help so many out and spend so much money on other countries, it's about time we just become concerned about ourselves, instead of Libya, Somalia, Yemen. Let other countries take on the burden of the world. Let the US be concerned about it's own drug problem, not the Afghans, the Columbians, or anyother drug exporting country. We can take care of ourselves. That is for sure. The US sticks it's nose in other countries were it doesn't belong. We spend over $60,000,000,000 to aid to about 150 countries out of 192 in total, through about 20 organizations.

    We should concentrate on how to educate ourselves on a liberal drug platform before we worry about and spending billions on other countries that can just take care of themselves. Let them have their civil wars, let them figure out their own politics and set up their own government without us intervening. Let Iran build it's nuclear weapons. They won't reach us, so why should we care. They don't have the capability in rocket science to send an ICBM to the US. Plus we would detect far before it reached our homeland, and be destroyed.

    Drugs should just be decriminalized, not legalized, everywhere. Go to China and get caught, they will kill you. Why should the US care, it's not our problem.

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  11. MikePatton

    MikePatton Titanium Member

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    Horribly off topic but I had to spit it out - If Iran gets its paws on some nuclear weapons YOU BET YOUR ASS they will reach you, nuclear weapons are not limited by distance and you're target number 2 my friend (we're number one as far as they're concerned).

    Anyway, back on topic... I saw that movie "Prince Of Pot", it's about Mark Emery and the Canadian legalization attempts, every time Canada came close to legalizing marijuana the U.S jumped in with threats and just blew it up, made me incredibly angry at how they come in like they own the place and make decisions that aren't theirs to be made.
     
  12. Wanderer

    Wanderer Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Legalization, decriminalization, call it whatever you want. It will likely not happen anytime soon, and while my heart goes out to my buddy salgoud and his feelings about the guys on the ground who feel in their hearts they are fighting a losing battle, the guys in the trenches don't have any influence on the higher-ups who are calling the shots on this.

    There are a lot of reasons for keeping people in a continuous state of war, anyone here read "1984"?

    There's also the biggest motivator of all and that's economics. The entire economic system which revolves around this constant state of war and prohibition would not benefit anyone who is benefiting from it right now. The benefactors are the drug cartels, the Law Enforcement Agencies, The Military Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, the privatization of prisons being run by corporations (who are not non-profit by the way), International Banking - too many to name, but they are all there. These groups are wartime profiteers, and they hold way too much influence in the state of how the economy is run to alter the money flow drastically. Unfortunately, prohibition has created a monster economic force and it's money flow cannot be shut off or re-routed into a "peace time" economy without disrupting too many things. Too much money is being passed around, bottom line. Too much money to be made, no matter how many rational arguments can be made that this whole thing is bankrupting the western world, and perhaps destabilizing the entire world economy by an exponential cost to society in the form of debt.

    This is a war which is also un-winnable. Wars have objectives, metrics by which they are measured, tangible objectives which are either achieved or lost. At which time one either declare victory or defeat. There is no victory because the objectives are unobtainable, and perhaps non-existent.

    There is hope, the US had its credit rating lowered, and the global economy is maybe no more than 20 years from a total collapse. That might be the only thing which motivates change. When the troops on the front line get tired of fighting the losing battle and the debt has piled up so high we can no longer afford to pay them, we might see some change, but I don't have particularly high hopes for that either. My sincere sympathies do go out to the foot soldiers in the drug war who see no end or victory in sight and who's talent and skills could best be used in other ways which might benefit society if they were able to be re-tasked.

    For instance, look at all the, pardon the pun, grass roots efforts at legalizing medical marijuana, and the Federal Government still refuses to capitulate. This means that the entities who control the highest levels of government do not have it in their best interest to even give an inch on that.

    On the other hand, I do think there are some who would benefit greatly from legalization, for instance the Alcoholic Beverage Industry, and Tobacco. The Alcoholic Beverage Industry would likely be one of the industries which diversifies into manufacture and distribution of legalized drugs as they did it so well after the 18th Amendment was repealed, and Tobacco because they have these huge tracts of land, have probably done lots of research into strains of marijuana, and they have some "really bitchin' rolling machines."

    As much as I'd like to see change, I just don't see it happening easily as long as those in power continue profiteering in this wartime economy.

    Be well...
     
  13. salgoud

    salgoud Silver Member

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    Yes, you are right, Mr. Patton. I see you live in Israel and if the Israeli intelligence (the Mossad, I believe) found out, I believe they would act on their own and destroy Iran's nuclear capability in an instance. The state of the World does have an impact on everyone, and would have an impact on drug decriminalization. I'm just not quite so sure they have ICBM's yet to carry the payload that far being undetected and blown out of the sky. But since this is off topic. My current tenant is a Iranian fellow who is Baha'i (his religion) and hates the current president. He tells me first hand how life is in Iran.

    I thought in Israel they were fairly lax on drugs. I have seen documentaries about the night life and raves they go to and it appears that the police are fairly liberal. With Lebanon being next door, with their Lebanese blonde and red hash from the Bekaa Valley, I would assume it is not hard to obtain drugs in Israel. I have heard they grow poppies also in the Bekaa Valley. I'm sure one day, marijuana will be legalized because it actually is a very safe drug to ingest. Who do you know whoever OD'd on pot. 0. Then with a vaporizer, one takes cancer out of the equation. Time will tell, my friend, time will tell.

    I myself wouldn't want drugs legalized, except marijuana and make the rest decriminalized. A man I met in prison once, told me he did a ten year stretch for possession of marijuana (about 2 ounces) in Nevada. How hideous and crazy to take ten years of the prime of a man's life for two ounces of weed. Anyway, let us hope Iran and North Korea will not go crazy with their nuclear devices, so we can all live in peace and prosper. This may sound idealistic and utopian, but we all have it in us to live in peace especially with the legalization of some drugs and decriminalization of others. Hell, methadone clinics is an example of a legal way one can obtain opiates. But for some reason, Cocaine Clinics and Methamphetamine Clinics just don't sound feasible. Suboxone is another example of a legal drug prescribed for junkies like Leo.

    good Karma,

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  14. Wanderer

    Wanderer Platinum Member & Advisor

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    The nuclear thing is way off topic, but a last comment about that - the Mossad and the US (DoE, DoD, CIA, and others) likely worked together to construct the Stuxnet malware which seems was specifically targeted at the Iranian nuclear refinement facility to disrupt their uranium centrifuges. Israel is and was the target for any nuclear device constructed by Iran, and Stuxnet was the best way to disrupt the capability to build one and avoid a military strike by Israel to knock out the complex, which would have been too much of a liability for the US and Israel, given the current state of US operations in the region.

    Re: North Korea, they are having trouble building a ballistic missile which can hold together long enough to reach their target which is Tokyo. Tokyo and all over Japan is literally bristling with PAC III missile installations, and there's been talk of building a new PAC III site in central Tokyo.

    Back on topic.

    The Israeli mob has a very wide network of drug distribution globally. Likely has ties with the US Intelligence agencies who profit from drug manufacture and distribution to fund black ops, and wouldn't doubt it if the Mossad was involved on some level with that as well to help fund their activities as well as expand their intelligence operations and network. The hamster knew the Israeli dealers always had the best quality and would never try to cheat and were always happy to negotiate as well - very business like operation and well organized.

    North Korea is also involved in this web as well, because they need money and smuggle massive amounts of methamphetamine into Japan and no doubt help supply other Asian countries as well. They need the money to keep their regime in power and food in the stomachs of the people or "Dear Leader" will be ousted. This criminal activity on the black market for illegal drugs is what helps keep their economy going.

    See no matter how it's sliced up, it always gets back to economics, and when governments are involved in using profits for their own purposes, it's not in their interest to legalize or decriminalize. The US even takes the position that Portugal is an aberration. Too much money to be made by keeping the status quo.

    Be well...
     
  15. MikePatton

    MikePatton Titanium Member

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    Israel is currently experiencing the worst marijuana (and even hash) drought in its history of existence, one that makes the older folks reminiscent of a similar drought back in the late 70s, although this one is considerably more intense.

    The reason for that is the blocking of major tunnels used for decades to smuggle drugs from our hasish enthusiastic neighbors into the country about 2 years ago in a grand critically acclaimed military operation.

    This has lead to a considerable increase in price and decrease in quality of all cannabis products while most other drugs remained relatively unharmed, as they arrive mostly by sea, air, etc.

    This has also fueled a ridiculously massive epidemic of legal highs over the last couple of years, namely Cannabinoids, a 2nd coming of the early 2000's Mephedrone epidemic, Kathinones and other RCs.

    About the laws, Liberal is probably the last word I'd use to describe them. They are very similar to federal U.S drug laws, but here there are no "states" to not give a fuck and make their own.

    Possession is still a criminal offense that can result in up to 3 years in jail (a 2-3 year sentence is quite rare though), the law does not separate drugs and they are not divided into different classes, maximum punishments are exactly the same for Marijuana, Heroin, and Crack for example (While the law does not differ between different drugs, a judge probably will).

    First time & second time offenders (possession) never get jail time, but on the third time you might wanna grab a good lawyer. With marijuana, possession is up to 15 grams (0/5 oz), any amount above 15 grams will be considered drug trafficking (up to 10 years!) until and if YOU MANAGE TO PROVE in a court of law that you were not dealing (you need a damn good lawyer for this one).

    Aside from that, minors (under 18) are untouched for possession, even if it's the 1000th time, but they might be dishonorably discharged from future army service which will have an unfortunate impact on their future (bosses do not tend to hire people who didn't serve in the army, it's on your resume) but will be put in a juvenile hall or something similar if charged with trafficking.

    Now I don't know if other countries have this one but the maximum drug related sentence (20 years!) is "Persuading a minor to commit drug offense", in other words if I'm 18 and I pass a joint to a 17 year old I could spend 20 years in jail, though no judge in his right mind would ever rule such a sentence (as far as I know no one has ever gotten the full 20 year sentence for this offense).
     
  16. psychedelia

    psychedelia Silver Member

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    Well, things change in my opinion. People used to think women would never vote. People used to think we'd always have slaves. Decades ago, no one even thought of legalizing marijuana, and now we've come close to doing so on a couple occasions. I don't believe it'll happen soon, but I do believe some of these drugs will be legalized. Others may be prescribed, such as LSD for psychotherapy. Just my 2 cents
     
  17. salgoud

    salgoud Silver Member

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    I mean, all countries will not agree on the same drug laws. This is how I predict the future based on the past and present:

    Presently if someone is a heroin addict, most countries provide either methadone, buprenorphine or heroin itself (German, Switzerland and the UK (pilot program).

    1. So a heroin addict can obtain heroin in Germany. So is that legal? Yes it is for the person registered at the clinic, However, I believe they have to go in everyday, like three times a day. I'm not sure if they do take outs like methadone. Does anybody know any other countries they are prescribing pure heroin for opiate addicts?

    2. Also a person can obtain methadone from the MMT clinics, methadone maintenance treatment. So is that legal? Yes it is for the methadone users registered at the clinic.

    3. Now an opiate addict can go to a certified doctor who is qualified to prescribe Suboxone to opiate addicts. I go in once every two months, give a UA at the doctors office, and get a prescription for 45 eight mg pills a month, with 1 refill. No clinics, no lines, no people selling drugs, just a medicine for my opiate diabetes. I have to switch to the strips in December, my Medicare Supplemental Presciption service switched from the tabs to the sublingual strips for some reason (it'll be better for my teeth). Plus easier to cut up, I hope, I've never seen one but heard they're like Listerine Breath Strips.

    4. Marijuana will probably be legalized State by State in the US. California's problem was the voter turn out was very bad. I think if they pushed the Vote, it would have passed. They are going to have to change the schedule of marijuana to unscheduled, because pharmacies don't dispense it, some guy 21 years old, weighs it out and sells it to you. If pharmacies are not involved, they will have to place it in an unscheduled status. Nurses have to dose people at clinics, and pot is a Schedule I, so it should be dispensed in pharmacies, but it is not done that way, here. Of course to be a grow provider, or to work in a dispensary you have to have a background check and have no felonies.

    5. Medical Marijuana seems to be spreading across the US like a wildfire. Medical Marijuana is easy to apply for and many people have no pain or suffering that warrants being on pot. The MMJ growers are producing stronger and stronger hybrids everyday, making the pot in my State very potent. And everyday more and more people are seeing a doctor and getting the card blanch of the pot dealers, oh, I mean providers from dispensaries, excuse me.

    6. Would anybody really want all drugs legalized? Cocaine, methamphetamine, hallucinagenics (well maybe some), and downers. The World would be a mess. I think decriminalization of cocaine, meth, downers, and various other drugs would put the World on the right track toward a realistic harm reduction and reduction in general of drug abuse.

    Hell, when Leo first got on the methadone clinic, he didn't have a habit, was clean, but had just left Florida and came to Colorado. This was in 1978. All I did was take some codeine pills, fill out a large amount of paperwork, drop a UA, and acted like I was going through W/D's because I had a habit before. So I started getting methadone everyday and back then 30mg knocked me on my ass. Don't try it, it's is not worth the W/D you will have to go through. Then I was told about a doctor through the methadone grapevine about a doctor who would write for everything. And he did and I left the clinic to his prescription factory.

    So when you look at the whole picture, methadone, heroin and buprenorphine are already legal in many countries (except the pure diacetylmorphine HCl (heroin), it started in Europe, and I don't think it would ever fly in the US) for heroin or opiate addicts. Marijuana is already legal in 19 or 20 States. You may want to call it medical, but 50% of the users have no real physical ailment to be on it, they just make it up.) Total legality will come soon. I think one has to live in a City where MMJ is available to see how uncontrolled it is. Much is diverted to the black market. There still are many loopholes in the law. They have closed some, but really nothing has changed.

    So, personally, I've never seen the World so lenient with certain drugs and the strength they are making them now, it's unbelievable. Some are legal already if you want to jump through their hoops. Forty years ago, I took my first toke off a joint. What I did then was a felony. Now I can go in a dispensary and buy it like it was a candy store. Believe me things are changing, I just hope they never legalize hard drugs.

    salgoud
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  18. I nearly november every-

    I nearly november every- Silver Member

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    For the VAST MAJORITY of time, all drugs WERE legal. For the vast majority of human history, the vast majority of drugs were legal. Most of the really dangerous drugs we have now wouldn't ever have been invented and/or become popular, if we had just left people and their drugs alone in the first place.

    If there is one single lesson that can very easily be learned by looking at the history of drug laws and drug abuse, it's that all drugs should be legal.
     
  19. Rikki-tikki-tavi

    Rikki-tikki-tavi

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    It will all be legal when civilisation comes to an end when the world economy falters / we get hit by planet x / a diesease / global warming / zombie amegeddon and we are all wiped out, no one to make and enforce the law, no illegality of substance..

    Course not a lot of helps to us, but saying never seems to be a little shortsighted to me.
     
  20. Seraph

    Seraph Silver Member

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    If all drugs were legal it would create surreal situations of people living in artificial-heaven-on-Earth-type situations.

    A man could buy several thousand kilograms of pure heroin and he could just put himself on a hospital-style constant IV drip of it and be on it most of the time. He would be so opiated that he wouldn't do anything.

    Similar situations could happen with all kinds of other drugs. For society to be a society people have to do things and no scarcity of recreational drugs would stop all kinds of people from doing things.

    Can you imagine a benefits system where all drugs are legal and available over the Internet? Many people wouldn't feel or be as ashamed, depressed and ill like many of the people who live their lives on benefits are in this current situation where many drugs are illegal. As a result of this many more people would want to be on benefits and they would just sit around all day, high and possibly starving and ill and other things they might not care about because they are too high to care.