Dose - Eating Kratom

Discussion in 'Kratom' started by Lusty, Jun 6, 2010.

  1. Lusty

    Lusty Silver Member

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    I went to a store in his town where they sell legal drugs. He bought 2x5g powdered kratom leaves(not extracts). He mixed the first 5g with 250ml apple juice and drank it up. SWIM's last meal was 3 hours ago.

    One hour and 15 minutes later, he felt very little effect so he did the same thing with the other 5 grams. One hour latter, still very little effect. The guy at the store said to use them like tea but swim though he would get the most of it by eating them all up. The taste wasnt that bad by the way.

    So now swim wonders, was that a good idea? Maybe the stomach cant break down the plant to extract the fun stuff? Or is 10g just not enough? The guy at the store said he had some good time with a 5g tea, maybe he was lying to sell his stuff. I have no tolerance to opiates.



    P.S. Since kratom is legal in Canada, is swimming still required or is walking ok?
     
  2. mokoceno

    mokoceno Newbie

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    To answer your last question first, and re-state what i've heard said many times; 'swimming' is still required whenever discussing the consumption of any substance from tobacco to alchohol, because they are illegal somewhere. admittedly it's hard to see the logic in it if it's something as small as a cigarette but there must be a reason, and it's not that hard to use Swim once you get used to it.

    I haven't heard anything about heat being neccesary to get the most out of kratom, but he has heard that the freshness of the leaves can be a big factor. The only experience he's had with kratom was high grade powder extracts from internet vendors, which worked very well but to swim were not worth the $. The fact that the clerk he had a good time with 5g in tea is a little curious, and although he wishes he could more trusting, I am often suspicious of people selling unstandardized products. Really the only way to see is for You to get some more and make the tea, if they're willing to pay for more to find out...
     
  3. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Bad Mother-Fucker Palladium Member Donating Member

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    To be honest, if one gets kratom from their local "headshop" they are likely to buy old,overpriced,weak kratom. Far better to get it from a proper ethnobotanical supplier (which ofc I cannot name any)

    10g of good quality standard leaf should be plenty if the kratom is good quality and its taken on an empty stomach. As for the guy saying he got a good hit off of 5g, I say bullshit. Few first timers would get much off of 5g unless the kratom was a super strain like Maeng Da or Sunda. Extracts, of course, require even less.

    SWIM suggests You finds a decent supplier, buys something like 10g of premium bali and takes that toss and wash in one hit. Then he'll know how strong his natural tolerance to kratom is. He should be nicely buzzed on that dose.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  4. semaj

    semaj Silver Member

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    kratom is not an opiate, so You opiate tolerance doesnt really come into play. kratom is not likely to give You opiate effects, its much more mild generally unless You is messing with strong extracts, which can get expensive quickly.
     
  5. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Bad Mother-Fucker Palladium Member Donating Member

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    This is incorrect. You can talk in the first person regarding alcohol and tobacco use. Dont ask me why, because Alcohol is indeed illegal in some middle eastern countries, but thats the way it is.

    Space Numpty added 3 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

    Kratom targets various opiod receptors, so a tolerance to Kratom may be prevolent to some extent in opiate users. SWIM certainly has had some experiences with standard kratom that he would akin to a mild opiate such as DihydroCodiene aswell, its not as weak as some think. Maye SWISemaj has a natural tolerance to it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  6. Lusty

    Lusty Silver Member

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    Really not more powerfull than DihydroCodiene? SWIM never used DihydroCodiene but recons it's a pretty weak opiate ... or SWIM might be wrong? Also swim though kratom would be at least as potent as oxycodone ....
     
  7. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Bad Mother-Fucker Palladium Member Donating Member

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    No, unless as youSemaj said, one is using powerful extracts and then it gets expensive quick. Some would liken a powerful extract to a small dose of oxy, but the experience is a bit different to be honest. Kratom is not a pure opiate like experience, it has energetic qualities for example.
     
  8. Lusty

    Lusty Silver Member

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    How much is considered a small oxy dose? I used to take 40mg immediate release and was pretty hammered. (Again, with no tolerence build up)



    Update : Since SMIW felt virtually nothing, he took 100mg Diphenhydramine. In normal circonstances, I would only feel slightly sleepy, but now I feel definatly stoned. Nothing like an opiate buzz or a diphenhydramine buzz though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
  9. lostparadise

    lostparadise Newbie

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    The best way to use kratom is boil the povdered leafs in a cup of water for a while. Swim like to use dried Bali leaves (5- 20g) Then filter it and drink.:thumbsup: I have got a very noticeable feeling while eating dried leaves. Sorry of My english...
     
  10. Lusty

    Lusty Silver Member

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    Does that mean You gets less feeling from eating the leaves than from boiling and filtering?
     
  11. shivakiva2112

    shivakiva2112 Titanium Member

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    This is bad advice. 10 grams of premium bali is way too much for a starting dose. It is in you's best interest to start with at least 3 grams but not more than 5 grams for a first go-round with fresh, quality kratom powder. I have seen several people get quite sick from even 5 grams, and when SWIM first started using kratom, they never needed more than 3 grams per dose.

    Lusty, don't underestimate kratom, it's difficult to compare it to oxycodone (although some of the alkaloids in kratom are comparably potent) as the high is much more subtle, almost delicate. Kratom is, however, a strong drug in it's own right, and I have no doubt that anyone with a taste for opiates can develop an equal taste for kratom.

    It is not necessary to boil the powder, and in SWIM's experience, the best method of administration is taking the powder orally, either mixed into juice or warm water, or in capsules. There are many reputable vendors that can be found through Google that sell high quality kratom capsules for a price which is undoubtedly much more reasonable than whatever a head shop might charge.
     
  12. Lusty

    Lusty Silver Member

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    SWIM decided to take your advice and found what seems to be a good web source. He ordered a sample pack wich contains 1oz Bali, 1oz Maeng, 1oz Thai and 2g 15x extract at 1/5 of the price he would have had from the headshop. That headshop was such a rip off!

    I will report his experience in the meantime.

    SWIM thanks you for your advice.
     
  13. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Bad Mother-Fucker Palladium Member Donating Member

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    Sorry, SWIM begs to differ. Maybe SWIShivekiva is particularly susceptable to the kratom alkaloids, but 3 grams of standard leaf is barely active, if active atall, with most users. I would not recommend 10g as a starting dose to someone who has never taken Kratom before, but the OP has used before. However, OP should get something on 5g so if he wants to err on the side of caution, then try 5g to start and see how he goes. Certainly the Maeng Da will only require 3g as a starting dose.

    As regards eating V tea. Eating is more efficient as you will get all of the alkaloids whereas arguably making tea will never get all of the alkaloids out. That said, many like the tea because you get the alkaloids in one hit rather than relying on ones digestive system to deliver the alkaloids, which will come bit by bit.

    Anyhoo, enjoy :thumbsup:
     
  14. Lusty

    Lusty Silver Member

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    It's true that I have used before, but as you pointed out the kratom came from a headshop and the quality was doubtfull at best so SWIM guesses he will go with 5g at start to stay on the safe side. I think it's always wise to be prudent when trying new stuff or more potent stuff. I will have 1 oz of each anyways so plenty of space for experimentation. ;)


    Very good point here. Altough some of the alkaloids may stay in the leaves, the rapid absobtion of less alkaloids might give a stronger effect than a full but slower absorbtion. Guess SWIM might do the tea then mix the washed leaves with something else and eat to get the best of both worlds. SWIM cant wait for his shipment to arrive!



    As for the strenght of each varieties, SWIM figured Maeng > Thai > Bali. Is that right?
     
  15. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Bad Mother-Fucker Palladium Member Donating Member

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    Not really. Certainly Maeng Da is the most potent but the Thai/Bali are different in effect rather than strength.

    Thai is generally considered to be more "energising" than Bali which is deemed a "relaxing" strain.

    As a general rule of thumb;

    Thai = Energising, Maeng Da being the strongest energising type
    Indo = A mixture of both, but also depends on which strain. "Super Sunda" is deemed the strongest "sedating" type available.
    Bali = Sedating
    Malay = Generally sedating, but they also do a Maeng Da type

    Then we can break each type down strain by strain;

    As a general rule of thumb;

    Red Vein = Energising
    Green Vein = Sedating
    White Vein = Less common, somewhere between the two and deemed the strongest gram for gram.

    So, for example, a red vein Thai will be a strong energising type. A green vein Thai will be sedating but as it is a Thai it will also have some energising properties. Be aware there are things like "super green indo" that is actually a red vein type, so make sure one knows for sure what they want before ordering.

    To be honest, one cant go far wrong with Maeng Da and Super Sunda. SWIM generaly uses Maeng Da in the day and Sunda at night, but Bali is not far off a Sunda, just a little less potent.

    Hope that makes some sense :thumbsup:
     
  16. SomeGuyIKnow

    SomeGuyIKnow Silver Member

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    In SWIM's admittedly limited Kratom experience, it must be taken on an empty stomach in order to get anywhere at all with it.
     
  17. Balzafire

    Balzafire Palladium Member

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    I was addicted to opiates for over three years before switching over to kratom and will be first in line to say that opiates should be taken on an empty stomach.
    In his personal experience though, this is not so much the case with kratom. He even suspects that with toss-n-wash, a light meal (snack) may even potentiate his experience due to the stomach acids produced to break down the snack.
    Others will dissagree and swim even prefers the empty stomach most days, but just wanted to point out that it is not as critical as with opiates.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  18. krazykungfu

    krazykungfu Newbie

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    There's a lot of conflicting info floating around - can any SWIMMERS confirm a standard teaspoon of powdered product is roughly 5 grams - which would coincidentally be a good starting dose...?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  19. ianzombie

    ianzombie Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I would recomend making up the doses before they leave if possible. Although its not illegal to travel with a scale and its a lot more excact than trying to measure out doses with measuring spoons.
    There are some rough guides posted however because so many different vendors grind their leaf to so many different levels its impossible to be exact. Some powders contain stem and veins as well as leaf material, many are ground to different sizes making it difficult to say that one measuring spoon equals a specific amount.

    The best thing You can do is to take their measuring spoons (dont use regular tea/table spoons as they are not set sizes) and measure out the Kratom they will be using and take note of how much fills a spoon, then bring the measuring spoon with them if they cant for whatever reason bring a scale.
     
  20. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Clover's powdered bali comes out to around 3.5 grams when using a measuring, leveled teaspoon. He says mixing two teaspoons worth in some hot water makes a nice cup of tea. Clover takes his kratom with him in a ziplock bag (small one, maybe 20 grams worth) and keeps a measuring kitchen teaspoon with his kratom so he can make up some kratom tea wherever he can find a cup and some hot water.
     
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