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Dose - Fentanyl Patches How much to take?

Discussion in 'Fentanyl' started by jmknig, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. jmknig

    jmknig Newbie

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    Recently SWIM has had the opportunity to acquire some 12.5 microgram/per hour Duragesic patches. SWIM has no prior experience with fentanyl and is not sure what dosage to take or how to take it. He has heard that chewing the patch is the best method? Is this true? SWIM has used opiates for well over 4 years and has an oxycontin habit of around 60mgs a day-- 15-20mg insufflated at a time. What would be a good dosage to allow SWIM to have those wonderful effects he looks so forward to? All help is appreciated!
     
  2. desertimplant

    desertimplant

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    A good place to start is read through this thread on this forum:
    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112149

    Based on swiy's comments and oxy levels, if he insists on continuing then start small. If these are brand Duragesic and not generic, they are likely the ones using the gel inside a membrane designed to meter dose thru the skin and underlying fat cells. The total Fent content is 1.25mg...but its delivered at 12.5 MICROgrams\hour. For somebody with swiy's low oxy (60mg is low, trust SWIM)..even 1/2 or less of the 1.25mg could be LEATHAL.
    If swiy insists on moving ahead, then a gel blob about bb sized would be the max attempted.
    SWIM typically wears the patch as prescribed for 3 days..there is usually around 40-50% of the Fent left even after the 3 day period..but the gel can abused a little more safely.
    2 things...1: Fent will screw up the oxy tolerance...double, maybe even triple it...so it'll be a while before the normal 15-20mg snorted will get swiy to the same place...and 2: One reason for all the warnings is there is no good way to really judge the dose...at least the Mylan type patches (Fent is in adhesive) one could cut into strips and have a rough estimate based on size of strip compared to patch size...unfortunately the gel type aren't so easy to figure

    If SWIM was standing in swiy's shoes he'd just wear one first..12.5mcg should be fine for swiy's current oxy level...see how it goes....

    But sucking out the gel has killed many an opiophile who thought their tolerance was "high"...SWIM's doc didn't switch him to fent till his oxy level was `350mg\day...and plugging a pea-sized blob dropped SWIM to the ground when it hit...above all, have fun but don't die doing it!
     
  3. Helene

    Helene Gold Member

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    Most of the info in desertimplant's above post is spot on, especially the advice about overdose risks - just put the patch on as intended, don't chew/ swallow/ smoke/ inject it, for gods sake. Fentanyl is approx 100 - 150 times stronger than morphine, and is not something you really wanna mess about with unless you really know what you're doing. Bear in mind that 60mg oxycodone per day equates to about 90mg morphine, and that dosage is gonna be spread out across the 24 hours. So be careful with the fentanyl dosages...

    Anyway, just wanna correct some info given in the above post:
    This isn't right. A 12.5µg transdermal fentanyl patch delivers 12.5µg of fentanyl per hour, every hour for a period of 72 hours (three days). So it's total fentanyl content delivered would be 12.5µg multiplied by 72 hours, which would be 900µg, or 0.9mg. The patch will continue to deliver fentanyl after the 72 hours have elapsed, but not necessarily at the intended rate. Transdermal patches are intended to deliver a steady dose over the 72 hour period. If you use the patch in any other way except its intended transdermal use (i.e. smoking, eating, chewing, injecting etc) you are going to be releasing a large proportion of the whole 72 hours worth of fentanyl in one go, which is of course rather dangerous, is terms of overdose risk.

    Fentanyl is pretty much the strongest opiates in existance (save for some of its analogues), and should be treated accordingly, with due respect and caution. Be careful with it, please. As desestimplant said, many who thought they knew what they were doing have overdosed and die as a result of messing around with fentanyl.

    H
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
  4. desertimplant

    desertimplant

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    No offense Helene, but SWIM has a box in front of him..it says 1.25 milligrams (said grams earlier, was wrong) total fent in each patch. the 75mcg says 7.5 MILLIgrams, the 100mcg patch box says 10 MILLIgrams. Only around 60-70% of the fent is ever delivered fully from the patch over a 72 hour period at micro (ug\hour)gram-per-hour metering. SWIM was a part of 3 different pain clinic studies and had this drilled into him. SWIM was actually wrong..there is nearly 2 MILLIgrams of fent in the 12.5's. From Duragesic's actual Prescriber Info .pdf. SWIM was also off on the others..way low apparently. Unless SWIM's generic has less than brand Duragesic
    Check yourselves..upper right

    http://www.duragesic.com/duragesic/shared/pi/duragesic.pdf#zoom=100

    Dose* Size Fentanyl Content
    (mcg/h) (cm2) (mg)
    12** 5.25 2.1
    25 10.5 4.2
    50 21 8.4
    75 31.5 12.6
    100 42 16.8
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
  5. Helene

    Helene Gold Member

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    It's slightly unclear what you are stating, desertimplant. You initially stated that
    But then said
    Do you mean grams, milligrams or micrograms? One should remember that fentanyl is nearly always measured in µg (micrograms) as opposed to milligrams. I think there is some confusion here regarding units of measurement, a 12.5µg per hour fentanyl patch cannot possible contain 1.25 grams of fentanyl. Mistakes regarding units are easily made, but with something like fentanyl a simple error can result in fatal consequences.

    H
     
  6. desertimplant

    desertimplant

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    Right..SWIM capitalized MICROgrams to highlight the difference between total fent in a patch Vs what is actually delivered dose-wise. SWIY is correct...ug\hour is how it is metered into a person...that was what SWIM wanted to get across....a given patch has a more-than-lethal dose total inside so if it is used\abused differntly than designed..ie a swimmer slurps the gel down they may be in for a trip to the ER or morgue.

    So for clarification...ignore Deserts incorrect grams after each setting...according to mfr, 12.5ug\hour patch contains 2.1MILLIGRAM and not Grams...bad typo on Desert's part...thanks for correct SWIM's Fent-addled brain
    And regardless of patch size..the dose on ALL is in ug (micrograms\hour) delivered...some of the boxes are confusing as they also put total Fent contained in the patch in big letters..so one must carefully read to realize the total Fent inside is NOT the dose delivered....
    SWIM 100% agrees with helene on this especially how dangerous a wrong dose can be...line between fun and dead is measured in ug (micrograms)...He is glad she pointed out his idiocy so someone doesn't pay a high price...hopefully all is now corrected above...For anyone wanting to play with patches..use link to the Duragesic Presciber Info above and read it closely

    It was early and the patch was new...what can SWIM say...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
  7. OG Kush

    OG Kush Newbie

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    That 12.5 patch ins't gonna do much with your tolerance.... If you were to wear one I would say a 50mcg/h patch would be at your level. There is several ways to use.

    1. Smoking gel... this is the most dangerous and challenging way to use. As you can easily apply to much heat destroying the fent.

    2. Empty gel into a small nasal saline solution bottle and put a few drops up your nose.

    3. Take the gel and put it between your gums and let it absorb that way

    4. Just wear the patch


    In your case I would prob try the nasal saline bottle. Or just save it for when you run out of OC.
     
  8. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke Titanium Member

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    swim is a on and off user of opiates. he mostly does oxycotin, but likes other painkillers more. tonight swim acquired a 1600 mcg fentanyl sucker. when swim does oxycotin he does at least 60 mg, but will do up to 120 mg nasally. swim split he sucker in half, then spit that half into another half (one quarter of the total sucker). he broke off small pieces of that quarter and slowly did it by putting the pieces between his cheek and gums (like chewing tobacco) over a period of 2 or 3 hours. swim caught a small buzz by doing this (swim wanted to be very careful because he knows the power of this particular opiate). swim is going to do the same amount in a shorter period of time now that he fully knows how it will effect swim. all swimmers should remember that swiy can always do more, but can never undo a drug swiy has already consumed.