GBL and 1,4 B: 'new evidence' on date rape prompts call for drugs ban

Discussion in 'GHB' started by enquirewithin, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    Government experts warn that drug-assisted assaults are now a significant problem

    Alan Travis, home affairs editor Tuesday April 3, 2007
    The Guardian


    Ministers are to consider banning two new "date rape" drugs, amid warnings from experts that the true scale of sexual assaults assisted by drugs may be greater than official figures suggest.In a report, the government's drug advisers say substance use in rapes and sexual assaults is now a significant problem. Research concluded illicit drugs were a factor one in three assaults. Experts say that while alcohol is probably the most common "weapon", the fact that victims in drug cases are even less likely to go the police means the true picture is unclear.
    The Home Office's advisory council on the misuse of drugs calls for the restriction of two substances which it says are being imported into Britain in increasing amounts from America, where they are illegal.
    Known as GBL and 1,4-B, they are sold legally in this country as industrial solvents and cleaners, but when ingested have a similar effect to the known date rape drug GHB, banned here in 2003. The advisory council says low doses are associated with increased libido, euphoria, suggestibility, passivity, and amnesia - rendering victims vulnerable to non-consensual sexual activity.
    Sir Michael Rawlins, its chairman, said drug-facilitated sexual assault was a particularly severe offence which wrecked people's lives: "It is a significant but under-reported problem. Most drugs used in drug-facilitated sexual assault are already controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act, but we are concerned that two drugs are not currently controlled and will consider whether they should be classified. We will advise the Home Office by the end of the year."
    It is believed that Home Office ministers will act on any recommendation to impose a ban.
    Professor Rawlins said the problem had become so severe that young people should now be officially advised to avoid going alone to clubs, pubs or parties. The experts also want clubbers to be warned not to leave their drinks unattended, even to the point of keeping hold of them when they go to the toilet, to avoid the drink being "spiked".
    The council also urges ministers to re-examine at the law on drug-facilitated sexual assaults to take in "opportunistic" attacks as well as those pre-planned.
    The belief that reporting rates for such attacks are lower than the already poor reporting rates by victims of serious sexual assault generally undermines studies last year which concluded the media had overblown "date rape drugs".
    The Forensic Science Service found that 46% of 1,014 alleged drug-facilitated sexual assaults between 2000 and 2002 were actually down to alcohol. Illicit drugs were detected in 34% of cases, mostly cannabis or cocaine. GHB, banned in 2003, was used in only two cases in the sample. A Home Office police study found similar results.
    The problem is exacerbated by the fact that, even if victims do report the attack, they may leave it longer than the 12 hours during which drugs such as GHB can reliably be detected in urine or blood.
    The warning comes as it is revealed that government funding for the £62m-a-year young people's drug and alcohol prevention and treatment programme is being cut by 10%. Martin Barnes, chief executive of the charity DrugScope, said the impact would be disastrous.


    ______________________


    Drinks are tested for traces of drugs. Photograph: Martin Godwin
     

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  2. enquirewithin

    enquirewithin Gold Member

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    You can't help wondering what this about. They actually state:
    I suppose it's easier to ban a drug than try to address the real cause of this type of sexual violence.
     
  3. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    *THAT* is the one and only reason for this bullshit scaremongering story.
     
  4. garbled

    garbled Newbie

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    Welcome to the USSA's version of life in the clubs, "Ve must use ethyl alcohol!" 1014 cases in 3 years and only 2 involved GHB, so let's go after the easier 2 cases. IMF money buys the DEA a lot of influence in the UK. Sorry mates.
     
  5. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    SWIM actually knows quite a few people have been drugged then raped with GBL..... inc SWIM herself. All of them drank the GBL recreationally and let people they thought they could trust measure their doses. I do not know anyone who has had their drink spiked by a stranger though, which I'm sure does happen, but I doubt it is as common as the media often portrays. Like stated above, alcohol is the most common drug used for this purpose.

    I personally think that the government and media are targeting the wrong people in their campaign against this type of crime, there should be a lot more harm reduction education directed towards recreational GHB/GBL users with a strong focus on being responsible for a users own intake - always measure your own dose, even if you think you can trust a person, why take the risk? There is no excuse for not measuring ones own dose once a person realises the risks involved. It's about keeping yourself safe. GHB/GBL is an amazing drug when taken responsibly, it's a shame there are so many sick f**** out there who will take advantage of another persons trust, vulnerability and lack of knowledge towards this substance just to satisfy their own disgusting and perverted fantasies..... but it is a reality, and knowledge is power.

    Another point to also note is that GHB passes very quickley through a persons system and can rarely be detected from a urine sample given 6 or more hours after dosing..... by the time a person realises what has happened it can often be too late. I am pretty sure it can be detected in blood tests up to 12 hours after dosing, which is still a very small time frame considering the person could have been unconcious for the first 6 hours and incoherant and confused for quite a few hours after that.

    There is also a lot of guilt and shame for the victims of this type of crime because they chose to drink an illegal drug, they trusted people they shouldn't have, and put themselves in an unsafe situation. I bet there would be a lot more reports of this type of drug rape if the victims felt they would actually recieve support and counselling. Yes they may have made some bad judgement calls but that does not mean they deserved in any way what was done to them. It is not that the drug is bad it is the a******* who use it to rape and abuse another human being.... They are very sick people and if it wasn't GHB they would find some other way to facilitate their crime.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  6. garbled

    garbled Newbie

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    SWIM's girlfriend got really good at dosing people, because SWIM taught her the nuances of calculating a beginner's dosage based on several determining factors. She eventually got into playing God with the act, and if there was someone partying with her and friends that she didn't like or they became obnoxious (to her), she would just put them to sleep. After a very close call doing that to a close friend of hers, she swore off the practice, but not before SWIM ended up cutting her off (No more source, no more God) over it.
     
  7. zera

    zera Gold Member

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    Doesnt GBL taste like shit compared to the relatively tasteless GHB? How could anyone not know if theyre drink gets spiked with industrial solvent? Anyway you folks in the UK better start learning how to convert GABA to GHB, its really not that hard once you get over the whole poisonous gas thing.
     
  8. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Bingo.


    Between 2000 and 2002 (GHB being banned in 2003) only *two* cases out of 1014 with the rest being predominantly Alcohol, Dope and Coke? And yet they hound the G user? - Madness.
     
  9. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    I'd just like to apologise for my language in the above post, I hold a lot of anger and resentment to drug rapists for what they have done to SWIM and to her friends and also that their actions were a major contributing factor to GHB becoming illegal. I am only a few weeks sober and she is just now starting to deal with the issues surrounding her drug rape so the emotions she is currently feeling are very raw and intense.... which rubs off on me..... and my posts. So sorry readers, and thanks for being supportive and understanding.
     
  10. dogzz

    dogzz R.I.P. Newbie

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    I thought your language was nothing to apologize for, to the contrary, it was quite reserved for one who knows too well the pain. I has nothing against getting high, but to do it to another, without their knowledge is just wrong. To take it the next step and do it to rape a woman (or man, I should cover all perverts bases) is wrong, criminal, and nothing is too strong in punishing those that are so twisted and spineless they need to knock someone out to have sex. ( or whatever you want to call it, swim's opinion it takes both, hmm, everyone involved to be a willing participant to call it sex )
    Swim wont apologize for sounding so opinionated or angry against those who "date rape" I am the brother of 3 sisters, father of 2 daughters, grampa of one granddaughter, and 2 grandsons.....If any of them were drugged unknowingly...there would be a heavy price to be paid, add rape! not even gonna go there. lostgurl and all the other people that have been date raped, swim wishes there was a way to make things better, but there is nothing, other than your own strength and belief in yourselves that will bring relief. You are better than what you feel, dont give the person/people(?) that did this to you the power of knowing they had you and broke you....F-that. You are a much better person than that, let it make you a stronger person, move past it, it is cliche' but "that which does not break you, only makes you stronger" It was the weak one that needed to drug you under. You should never apologize for saying how you feel. No one else knows what you went through, or how you feel.....let it out in all and open honesty....then you will begin to heal. Besides, swim knows lostgurl, and thinks she would benefit much by becoming an advocate against date rape. So many young kids who think they know it all......One of the first things swim taught his daughters when they started dating, was watch their drinks, the ways a loser date might try to get them to loosen up. how many parents dont, how many young girls have been date raped because they were never told? I will quit ranting, swim gets peeved and goes off when it comes to subjects like this......nuff said!
     
  11. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Hey thanks dogzz, much appreciated! :)
     
  12. garbled

    garbled Newbie

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    I have to imagine the date rapes of men by women are totally non-existent. I realize that it could happen in man-on-man cases, but I just can't picture a situation where woman-on-man date rape occurs without some outside stimulation. For starters, most men wouldn't be objecting, but if they did, their body probably wouldn't respond once they were unconscious, unless they were given a cocktail of Viagra along with the date-rape substance to give the poor old chap a boner.

    I can see a new market for T-shirt vendors, with slogans like: "I have a penis pump, ladies. Date rape at will."
     
  13. westybrook

    westybrook Newbie

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    Some would if it was a desperate over weight stinking desperate girl. Then they would object :)
     
  14. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    ^^^ I think the actual point you are trying to make is that it is impossible to have your drink spiked with GBL.

    Carelessness could still lead to someone overdoing the GBL as they dose themselves, ending with them passing out and getting fiddled with.
     
  15. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

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    Didn't they already found out miraculously that banning doesn't help?
     
  16. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Yeah, funny that.
     
  17. English_T

    English_T

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    Take a look at the most famous case of banning - prohibition - did it achieve its' goals? No, it did however, make an incredibly lucrative business for organised crime and was what truly put the Mafia into to a whole new league altogether. Prior to prohibition, they were just hoodlums; however, the massive cash influx experienced through the smuggling of alcohol from Canada to the US and furthered by the 'Speakeasy's' made the Mafia and gave them something they didn't have in any serous way prior to prohibition - influence- Big money can buy some 'important' friends in the political arena, and also in the Police force, and so it did and does. It was then the prohibition of various drugs which continues to provide billions of dollars for organised crime and 'dodgy' idealists like..The Taliban.

    Ban something where a market exists and all you do is drive the price up and make another avenue for big bucks for organised crime.

    It's like everything, in this world you have and always will have jerks, jack-offs and idiots that fuck everything up for everyone else through their own stupid actions. It's not the drugs, guns, porn etc which are the problem per se, it's the selfish, immature, moraless idiots that abuse them - people are a reflection of the society they live in and more directly of their upbringing. End of. Good parents bring up good, polite, educated children with full moral understanding.

    I spent many years in Japan and when I first visited I was expecting what I'd heard about Japan, namely, that the children were all stressed out through the tough and unforgiving school system, the men were sexist, women were downtrodden, abused and forced into a life of cleaning and feeding their husbands. This was, to an extent, false. The children learn (not from being forced down their necks, might I add) that individualism can be a very selfish attitude - they are taught that each and every persons actions have a direct influence on everyone else and that they should think of others before themselves. Schooling does get intense, particularly the High School years; however, the children were incredibly happy, innocent and caring. It was unbelievable. They would all say 'Good Morning to the elderly or to adults they met on the way to school. They all had a very active lives and school also involved 'mingling' with the local community, helping out at old peoples homes,providing local services for their town etc and so they were taught, this is your town you will get out of it what you put in.

    Women work, usually, up until they marry. They then look after the home, bring up children but are also very active in the local community and are considered to be the very 'glue' which holds society together. They are not forced into this, theyconsider it one of the most important jobs that one could possibly do - the bringing up of the next generation and the creation of good, sound children who are fully versed in the rights and wrongs through a natural upbringing. Wmoen are totally respected in the Japanese society.

    Men work like dogs, and sometimes wil not get home until very late at night or even in the early hours of the morning. Yet, they will still go to work the next day even if they have not slept. They provide the money for the family and the wife provides the 'background' support - without either one it would be would all fall apart. Their marriages are a 'partnership' with each taking their responsiblities incredibly seriously.

    They have the lowest crime rate in the world, the strictest immigration policies, and one thing I noticed nobody but nobody throws litter on the floor. The place is immaculate. They do have drugs in Japan, mainly Crystal Methamphetamine. However, they do not have the problems which are said to go hand in hand with methamphetamine. The Yakuza (Japanese mafia) agreed with the government that they would keep out any harmful drugs like heroin etc as long as they were left to run their businesses discretely and this also involves meth, prostitution (ran extremely respectably), gambling and general drinking establishments. I went to one called 'Nurse Camp', it had 300 young Japanese girls dressed in very tight pink nurse uniforms which were shorter than normal uniforms and came without underwear. I went in a few times as I new the owner (free!), but normally it was $30 but you had 2 hours free drink and a couple of nurses to talk with, light your cigarettes, pour your drinks etc. I worked in a Host Bar and also did the same (without the nurses uniform!) for ladies young and old. Great times. Anyway, off track....

    The Japanese love stimulants and many herbal types are available at pharmacies ranging from $1 to hundreds of dollars for the more 'exotic'.

    Great country with very few social problems, they do exist, naturally, but are the exception rather than norm. My point? ...it is people that cause problems and not the drugs, guns, porn or whatever it may be. A knife is a kitchen implement to the good, a weapon to the bad...
     
  18. Mr_T

    Mr_T Newbie

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    It will be a sad day indeed for many honest party goers if / when the UK government ban GBL... :(

    It is there anything that can be done to try to prevent this from happening..? I'm guessing not, but would be interested in any suggestions..

    Purely out of interest, does anyone know what the shelf life of GBL is? Either whilst it is still sealed in the containers it is distributed in, or stored some other way?

    T.
     
  19. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    GBL, if stored in a proper container, will remain good for many years.
     
  20. Mr_T

    Mr_T Newbie

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    When you say proper containers, do you know if a glass container falls into this category? Is there something preferable to glass for preventing GBL deteriorating? I've heard some speculation recently that GBL left in a small glass bottle for a matter of months resulted in it losing its potency... I don't see how this could be the case, but then chemistry has never been my forte!

    Curiously,
    T.