GBL Questions for nooby! : )

Discussion in 'GHB' started by killagorilla187, Sep 29, 2006.

  1. killagorilla187

    killagorilla187 Newbie

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    First of all, thank you for educating the Swimmers : P

    1.How toxic is GBL?

    2.How do you know if you have dopamine rebound?

    3.Does GBL cause water retention?

    4.Are any supplements helpful while taking this? (L-tyrosine, antioxidents?)

    5.Can someone post a link about the baking soda and microwave method?


    I did read a study documenting how gbl was non-toxic even at high doses, they tested on rats.
     
  2. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    1. Depending on what report you read the answers to this question range from very toxic to non-toxic, reading experiences by long time users is a good guide, it is presumably toxic but long term effects will be dependent on dose, frequency & length of use as well as how well you look after health in many other ways.

    2. Dopamine rebound affect (felt when the G has worn off)

    A high intake user (even if just for a day or two at a time) will usually feel the dopamine rush when the GHB wears off. The symptoms are much like those experienced with benzo withdrawal, but usually pass after a good night sleep but can last up to ten days for a long term user. Some may not even notice the symptoms, others will have agonizing symptoms. This occurs sooner with GBL & 14B, than with GHB.

    Benzos/sleeping pills can make this experience more tolerable and Seroquel/Zyprexa has also been known to work for dopamine rebound.

    3. Not exactly sure on this one, with the Sodium variety of GHB this could possibly be an issue for a long time user, but GBL is not a salt.

    4. GBL is very reactive with all kinds of minerals (calcium magnesium, natrium, kalium). So there’s the possibility that it reacts with minerals which are needed elsewhere and "sucks" them out of the body. The acidosis GBL causes is an effect from this and a good argument to turn all your GBL into GHB. Basically it is strongly advised that you take vitamin and mineral supplements to counter act any depletion caused by GBL intake.

    5. Recipe is similar to stove top but only takes 60 to 70 seconds. Just add all the ingredients at once and heat until it starts to crackle - it’s drying.
    Then wait until it turns into a thick paste, not watery and not bone dry, it may take 2 to 4 mins. If it’s burnt - chuck it.

    quote "I did read a study documenting how gbl was non-toxic even at high doses, they tested on rats."

    It was 1 study, you are not a rat. Read a variety of trip reports and user experiences to get the full scope.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2017
    1. 5/5,
      Good Info!
      Oct 2, 2006
  3. garbled

    garbled Newbie

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    1.How toxic is GBL?

    Depends on who you ask. Ask the DEA and the will tell you your body will vanish in a flash of blinding light and you will burn in a lake of fire forever. GBL (like GHB) is a natural compound and is found in things like red wine. As long as you don't take it until you shit out your intestinal lining, then it probably isn't going to hurt you long-term.

    2.How do you know if you have dopamine rebound?

    You will know. If you are unsure, try to go to sleep. If you can't, guess what? There's your answer.

    3.Does GBL cause water retention?

    No, although some users may have an allergic reaction from extended or heavy use that makes the face puffy, like alcohol does to some people.

    4.Are any supplements helpful while taking this? (L-tyrosine, antioxidents?)

    Take plenty of B vitamins, calcium, magnesium and potassium. Even a good multi-vitamin is better than nothing at all.

    5.Can someone post a link about the baking soda and microwave method?

    Don't do it. If you want to convert GBL to GHB, do it the proper way. Excessive intake of sodium bicarbonate can lead to high blood pressure and hypertension, and upset the pH balance of your body. The opposite of metabolic acidocis, which another user pointed out as a risk with extended GBL usage, is metabolic alkalosis.

    Acidosis is a condition caused by removal of bicarbonate or an increase in carbonic acid in blood. The net result is a disturbance in the carbonic acid-bicarbonate equilibrium to produce an excess [H+] in blood causing lower blood pH.

    Acidosis can occur because GBL is converted into GHB in your body through a process whereby one hydrogen molecule is consumed from the blood for every molecule of GBL that is converted to GHB. This de-hydrogenation of your blood makes your blood's pH level become acidic if you develop a 24/7 GBL habit.

    Alkalosis, on the other hand, occurs when bicarbonate increases, forcing the equilibrium to remove protons from blood, causing blood pH to rise. So pH becomes alkaline leading to vomiting, nausea, headache. Temporary metabolic alkalosis occurs when there is an intake of sodium bicarbonate e.g. if large amounts are taken for acid in the stomach.

    When you do the baking soda/microwave synth, there is no accurate measuring procedure and you always, always ends up with extra sodium bicarbonate in the end product.
     
    1. 3/5,
      informational post
      Jan 8, 2007
    2. 5/5,
      very good info!
      Oct 9, 2006
  4. nullified

    nullified Newbie

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    'thank you
     
  5. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

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    Umm I have understood that if you use baking soda and do the synthesis without microwave you end up with as pure a product as with NaOH. Did I get something wrong?
     
  6. cj.mckay

    cj.mckay Newbie

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    Re: GBL Questions for nooby! : ):GHB synth

    Hi,

    The method I list below may be simple but it works. You can scale it up and down without trouble. I would say that it gives an excellent product ;) . Do remember that naGHB can be rather hygroscopic, ie it draws moisture from the air and turns mushy - so store your finished GHB in a small airtight container, preferable with some silica gel sachets alongside it to further lower the moisture levels. It is because of the hygroscopic nature of GHB that most you see on the streets is already in solution. If you keep it in powder form it will go to porridge!

    SWIM managed to do this synth using only a couple of pyrex dishes, a microwave and a cooker hob ring.

    Be precise with the measurements and if you do not have a thermometer, use your common sense. If you have an oven or microwave/convection oven combo then you can set that to the right temp and do it that way. In this reaction, a little too much heat is better than not enough, I say.

    Only stir with a GLASS or STAINLESS STEEL item. Nothing else. Wood will dissolve and pollute your product. Cheap metals will react and render it poisonous.

    As long as you have purchased fairly good GBL, ie ideally >99.8% purity, then you won't need the charcoal step at all.

    When you pour the final hot product out to cool at the end, pour it onto several thicknesses of kitchen foil placed over an old tray. As it cools it solidifies into a waxy, white solid. That's yer GHB.

    When you need to measure the pH - use either a 'pen type' pH meter (get it on eBay) or some garden soil pH test solution.. a couple of quid from a garden centre.. Just mix a couple of drops in with some of your solution and compare the colour to the chart. Don't mix the pH tester contaminated stuff back into the main batch, obviously.

    Personally, I think GBL is more fun - not that I ever take anything like that these days; I'm too old now. Good luck with the cooking. Do wear old, protective clothes and use eye protection. One splash of this hot shit could kill an eye. Be VERY careful when handling hot flasks or dishes!! Do you want to look like Dr. Houses' right leg?

    Finally - do be careful not to leave GBL or GHB around where animals, kids or idiots can accidentally get hold of it. It is hard to kill yourself accidentally on G_ but you can knock yourself out for up to 6 hours fairly easily if you don't slowly build up to your dosage. This is not a drug for reckless or impatient people. Don't end up in A&E with a tube up your arse, for Christ's sake :crazy

    Finally - most of the horror stories of addiction etc relate to imbecilles who keep on dosing themselves 24/7 on this stuff. The guy who discovered it used to use it 3 times a week and did so from the 1960s till his death at over 80 a few years ago. Be sensible. If used carefully, this is a wonderful thing and can make you feel like nothing else out there; A genuine antidepressant. If done wrong, you can face months of hellish withdrawal or even death. Take it easy.....

    Preparation of Sodium GHB using Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda, NaHCO3)


    Add 273 g NaHCO3 (3.25 moles) to 1125 mL distilled water in a glass container. Slowly bring the solution to a boil while
    stirring with a glass rod or similar. All of the baking soda will dissolve. Carbon dioxide will be seen leaving the
    solution as it comes to a boil. This is the sodium bicarbonate breaking down into a slightly strong base,
    sodium carbonate:

    2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2

    Reduce the heat to a light boil, and slowly add 250ml gamma-Butyrolactone (280g, 3.25 moles). The addition is not
    immediately exothermic as with the sodium hydroxide synthesis. Keep this solution at a light boil for 30 minutes.
    Check the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH around 7, but anything 6 to 8 is perfectly safe. If the
    pH is too high, add a small amount more GBL and continue to reflux.

    The solution will be perfectly clear and should be absolutely colorless. If it is not perfectly colorless, i.e. if
    slightly impure butyrolactone was used and the solution has taken on a light yellow color, add about 100 mL of activated
    charcoal. Allow this to boil for 10 minutes. Cool the solution then filter, washing the activated charcoal two or three
    times with 50 ml portions of cold water. 410g of NaGHB will be made in this synthesis. This solution can be concentrated
    to about 50% NaGHB before it will start to crystallize. If you wish for a powder, heat until the temperature of the
    solution reaches 150°C then pour onto a flexible metal sheet and allow it to cool and solidify.

    This synthesis is perfect for use where there is no ACS, Food or Electronics grade sodium hydroxide available.
     
  7. cj.mckay

    cj.mckay Newbie

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    May I just add, having read through all of the above postings now; the baking soda synth for GHB which I posted above is proven to work. If you do it just according to the recipe you will get just pure naGHB at the end and NO residual sodium bicarb. The method I posted is just as 'proper' as the sodium hydroxide version but it is much easier to buy bicarb in many countries than it is to get sodium hydroxide.

    Can I also answer the question on the toxicity of GBL? I know someone who used to use GBL EVERY NIGHT for 10 years. He suffered no ill-effects and did not become addicted. When he decided to quit, he just quit. In my humble opinion, it is usually the idiots who keep on and on taking G- day and night who get themselves screwed up. Occasional use of GHB or GBL is completely safe for healthy people. GBL exists in many natural products, in surprisingly high concentrations sometimes. Fruit juice, wines, all meats contain it. It exists throughout your body, too. Yes - we are talking about ingesting a lot more than you would get in a carton of fruit juice but still I do not believe that there is much harm in careful use of GBL or GHB. 99.9% of the horror stories on the web are propaganda and are inflated or just plain untrue. A little honest research will show you the truth. There are no dangerous drugs, just ignorant people.