General info on addiction.

Discussion in 'General Addiction discussion' started by Nicaine, Aug 6, 2004.

  1. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Thought process of addiction: Addiction=Ambivalence

    Don't want to sound like I'm lecturing, but I'm an old timer with too much experience (& not enough motivation) and I want to share what I know.



    Addiction = Ambivalence



    Exact same thing, different words.



    am•biv•a•lence(am biv‚ƒ lƒns) n.coexistence of conflicting thoughts or feelings.



    Classic example:



    (A) I want to quit this shit, bad.

    (B) I want to use this stuff, bad.

    (C) Both of the above are equally true for me.



    That is addiction, not only in a nutshell but there is literally nothing more to it than the A-B-C above (despite all the societal hoo-haah).



    Solve the ambivalence in some way and you are cured. There are ways to do this, you just have to look for them.



    Stay ambivalent and you can and will go your whole life struggling and fighting with yourself. Forever, to no end, no matter 9000 meetings in 90 days.



    Recovery is a different story (it happens after you solve the ambivalence). Just going to meetings is IMHO a very slow way. Attack it at the A-B-C level above and you're on the fast track.



    That's it... I hope you the reader think about this for a moment (even if it sounds like a lecture) and copy/paste this post. Then think about it. Sorry if I sound like an ass, but here's my credentials: at least 4 inpatient treatments, read about 15 books on the subject, studied the topic on the Net for a few years, and attended AA/NA on and off since 1986.



    Peace...
     
  2. Jingleballicks

    Jingleballicks Newbie

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    Yup, I agree. That's the thing. Something that will help me get off of coke is that the high is great... only for a short period of time. And is it worth a hole in your septum, missing teeth, skin and bones?


    Nope, it ain't worth it. But lets see if I can put my money where my mouth is. I'm wired, and have been since about 9 o'clock last night, had to go to class, and it was horrible, couldn't blow my freaking nose for an HOUR! Can you imagine, it was so bad when I swallowed my nose would make a noise because of all the pressure. But you know what. Coke is an interesing high, first your HIGH HIGH, then your LOW LOW looking for another line, but it can't happend, you kinda go into a limbo.
     
  3. betsym

    betsym Newbie

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    Jingleballicks, the more coke You does, the shorter the high and the worse the side effects. After awhile, the high will not be so great or so high, either. Tolerance builds up with time, making it not worthwhile at all. In addition to this, You never knows when the next line might be the last. Coke can have a different effect every time You does it, be it a stroke, heart attack, seizure, or a combination. You can become sensitive to even a small amount, resulting in much worse come-downs and side effects, not to mention death.I would say that it is definitely not worth it. A two-second high is not worth the life-long risk swiy's body will have if You keeps up the use of cocaine. Coke is a drug which makes You feel all-powerful while at the same time robbing You of the power to feel anything but self-destructive, always wanting more, anything to avoid the depression which inevitably follows. You can get out of limbo. The thought of another line may always be there, just on the outside reaches of your mind, but you can control it instead of letting it control you. Take it one day at a time. Read everything you can about it. Convince You that they do not want coke but want to live instead.
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    Last edited: Dec 2, 2006
  4. Unsolved

    Unsolved Gold Member

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    When do you know your addicted?

    Hi, guys. I did a search on this and didn't see anything recent on this topic. I talked to one of my old friends recently and was troubled to hear that one of my close friends I grew up with in now addicted to crack cocaine. I just shook my head this was a good guy from my childhood. This led me to look at myself, specifically with alcohol and look for addiction. Since this is the only thing I really do a lot compared to other drugs. Which are a once in a while thing for me, specifically e and adderal. I do drink quite a bit. How does one know if they are addicted to a substance? What did it for you people to decided it's time to go to rehab? Is drinking on days off from work okay during night? That's pretty much what I do or after work 2 nights a week.I just don't want to end up like my friend which has no car, job and lost his old home. Edited by: Unsolved
     
  5. Nahbus

    Nahbus Gold Member

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    I say as long as you're keeping tight relationships with your friends
    and family, go to work and be productive and happy, you can do whatever
    you damn please. But the minute any of that changes (friends are
    worried, you lost your job, etc) I think there needs to be some changes.

    I think most people know, deep down, whether or not they are addicted or have a problem.
     
  6. Nadia Snow

    Nadia Snow Newbie

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    most people in rehab are admitted because they are court-mandated (in other words they got arrested and decided to do their time in rehab instead of a jail sentence)


    you know you're addicted/dependent in some wayin the back of your mind but you compare yourself to your friend & question wheither you are a really an addict. i'll have to agree with NHasen most people know, deep down, wheither or not they are addicted or have a problem
     
  7. uqlfy

    uqlfy Newbie

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    There are many definitions of addiction. Im technically a
    caffiene addict, I suffer withdrawals headaches irritability and crave
    coffee. However society doesnt attach the same stigma to this addiction
    the same as say nicotine addiction.

    I personally feel that you are an addict when you stop caring
    about what was important to you before started using. So much so that
    all that matters is feeding the addiction more and more.

    Alchohol dependence is not as dangerous in some respects because
    you more than likely wont end up in jail for merely possessing it. And
    unless you start miising work to drink you most likely wont have a
    problem satisfying you r urge. Of course that is also the most
    dangerous about it too.

    All in all though if you have the sense to be concerned I doubt your situation will get out of hand.

    By the way sorry about your friend. Two months ago I saw my first real GF. Shes a heroin junkie now.[​IMG]


    Edited by: uqlfy
     
  8. oldman

    oldman Gold Member

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    [​IMG]dude that sucks about your friend. I have to say of all the chemicals, that family (cocaine), seems to get very deep into lots of peoples heads. I went into rehab 13 years ago for it. never touched the stuff again don't wanna, it's a beast. I was completely sober 5 1/2 years before rejoining the force had habits very similar to yours that you described then I hads a couple of bad things happen in my life and used booze to deal with them. This is where most people make the mistake. I've been in rehab several times. 3 of the best in the country, whatever that means, done AA, NA, etc, not much help either unless you like torchering yourself about being sober. Read Rational Recovery by Trimpy, I'm not trying to plug this book or dude, but he has the mostideal way of looking at addiction, nothing like any of these 12 step movements, which is what 99% of all rehabs follow. The success statistics for treatment centers is moistly bogus as you'll read. If you got good insurance and you want a vacation, go for it, I didn't and now you coldn't pay me to get near one of those places. The only one who will ever know if you have a drinking problem is you. and if you don't, it's futile for anyone to convince you that you do.
     
  9. Wyldeflower

    Wyldeflower Newbie

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    You know you are addicted when you NEED it, not just want it.
     
  10. Apparatus

    Apparatus Silver Member

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    I think addiction is when you need the drug just to feel normal.
    I also think if drugs interfere with work or family/friends then maybe
    you have a problem.
     
  11. oldman

    oldman Gold Member

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    only one person has ecer said it in a way that is rational. Just because you use because you enjoy the pleasure using brings does not make you an addict. Your chemically dependent. The true definition of an addict is someone who no longer derives any enjoyment out of using but for some apparent reason cannot stop himself from continuing from using. This is the true definition. It is somewhat different than you hear it used loosley. Does it mean if you're chemically dependent that continued use will be of no consequence? NO. You may become addicted. You may ruin the rest of your life before you are addicted. Beleive it or not, (rehabs will deny this but true physicians won't) there are only a small portion (less than %10) of users who are true addicts by definition. The rest onlyreally enjoy using. The good news is that it becomes easier for people to deal with the fact they have a problem with having too much fun than the fact that they are "hopelessly addicted."I am not using that phrase literally. I just hate that cliche' made by people. If you hate using and cannot stop seek help (like a detox not a rehab) If you think you just use too much just try this, don't use! It seems hard but belive it or not millions of people do it all the time ON THEIR OWN! No rehab, treatments, AA, NA, CA,,etc. Look into RR, they just try to help you understand your addicted voice then get on with your normal life as a non user, not a person in recovery.
     
  12. uqlfy

    uqlfy Newbie

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    Oldman you made a very good point. I too have heard that same
    statement from my own MD. 80% of people at some point in their life abuse</span>
    a substance of some kind, be it crack or coffee. Only 10% or fewer ever
    become addicts by definition. However I think that perhaps the
    definition is a bit tight because many people have some serious issues
    from just abuse as defined in that context.
     
  13. Wyldeflower

    Wyldeflower Newbie

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    When I was 21/22 yrs old I was addicted to valium. The first time
    I ever took it I loved it. It made my world okay. You could
    have hit me on the head with 2x4 and I would have just smiled at you, I
    was OK, I had valium.



    At first it was recreatrional. Then I was going through some
    personal things and had a "real understanding Doctor" who would fill
    precriptions by the bucketfull. Time went by and I was taking at
    least 15 Vaiium 10s a day just to act normal. By that time i
    wasn't taking them to get stoned. I was just taking them to be
    "normal". Once I was all stressed out and took 50 at once and
    slept for 2 days. When I awoke, I was surprised but not
    disappointed that I had missed 2 days. Oh well. Just told the
    boss I was sick, we all get viruses right? I didn't really care.



    Anyway, life went on until my doctor went on an unnanounced
    vacation. I ran out of valium!!! My hands were shaking, I
    was all screwed up. I went to the nearest bar and downed 3 beers
    and my hands stopped shaking. I was so impressed I kept drinking,
    But then I had to admit I was addicted to valium and I knew I had
    to stop. A 22 year old valium addict. I hated, but had to
    admit I wasn't in control anymore.



    Anyway i faced my demons, blah blah blah, but bottom line with the
    valium thing I had to wean myself off them. When my Doctor got
    back from vacation I got more. But instead of taking 15 a day I
    took 12 a day, next week 10 and so on till eventually 1, then none,



    I wish I could do the same thing for smoking and caffiene...
     
  14. uqlfy

    uqlfy Newbie

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    You can. Those nicotine patches you must see when you go in to just
    about any pharmacy do exactly that. Coffee is pretty easy to self
    regulate as well.
     
  15. chico

    chico Iridium Member

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    I would compare my lust for drinking/drugs as to someone that craves certain food like sweets. There are some people that love potato chips, brownies, ice cream, coca-cola, etc., and will do anything for it because it makes them feel good and relieves their craving. I'm the same way with drinking/drugs because I want to have it all the time but, because I am responsible and don't want to wind up with my life ruined and also overweight (because of drinking) I restrict it mostly to just the weekends when work/job will not be affected AND when I'm going into a social environment. I enjoy the effects of drinking/drugs andusually have a better time while on them. Does this mean I'm addicted? I don't think so.


    When I'm in need of drinking/drugs everyday, whether or not I'm in a social gathering or not, at this point I'll be convinced I'm addicted or an addict. When I'm drinking a 12-pack all the time and sitting at home by myself...I'll know I have a problem.
     
  16. wildwestten

    wildwestten Newbie

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    There are alot of different signs to suggest that a person may have a
    chemical dependency issue and depending on who you talk to they may
    vary a great deal. like the person said before 12 steppers are going to
    look at thing perhaps differently than a clinician and old school
    12steppers are quite different from some of the more modern
    programs. What I would look is

    1. when you drink do you drink more than you had originally planned?

    2. Does bad shit happen when you have been drinking?
    3. Has anyone close to you suggested that your drinking could be excessive?
    4. Have you experienced health problems related to alcohol use?
    5. Have you drank to the point of nausea?
    6. Have you ever had a drink to ease the discomfort of a previous night of drinking?
    7. Have you ever experienced a blackout?
    8. Have you ever hidden the fact that you had been drinking or the amount you drank?
    These are just a few of the many signs that a more serious problem may be present.

    Good luck, but remember once you get into recovery it really fucks up
    your drinking and using so don't do it with out some serious thought
    about what you will be giving up.
     
  17. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    I think it varies a lot between different substances. With crack, it's more of a mental addiction (except for a few days serious depression and longer term anhedonia, which can be easily cured with antidepressants). Part of the problem is most users have constant access to it, and it's almost impossible to resist if a person's been using it a lot. IMHO the best way to break a crack (& coke in general) addiction is to go somewhere you don't know anyone who can get it, & can't get it yourself. It's the type of substance a user tends to think about a lot if available, and relatively easy not to think about at all if it isn't.

    Other substances have different patterns. I guess my answer is that it just depends, and every person has to decide for themselves. Nobody else can say you're addicted except you.
     
  18. cfb1

    cfb1 Newbie

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    What is addiction? Why do some get hooked and others not?

    I have what you'd call a "non-addictive" personality. Generally a "social-butterfly" who can adapt to new situations easily, without latching onto any one scene/experience etcetera.

    I didn't used to be like this, and for that reason didn't try drugs. Until 1 1/2 years ago I decided not to take drugs because I was depressed, when that passed I started experimenting.

    So far I've tried morphine, opium, heroin, narco-pharms, E, ghb, pot (of course), shrooms, ayahausca tea, coke, ketamine, speed, and pcp.

    I never really had the physical urge to go repeat the symptoms? Even with H, it was more along the lines of: "wow, amazing" (injected once, snorted twice), but never expereinced the urge to pursue more. It was more "body-experimentation," seeing what different substance do to my body.

    For a few weeks I would grind up E and shrooms and put them in time release capsules for all-day fun, but that passed and it got pretty boring.

    I have friends though who get addicted to the oddest substances. Ketamine? DXM? Even a dependance upon pot. Those kinds of people shoot up once and are hooked. They aren't even the "depressed" type.

    I haven't used a drug (even nicotine) in a month now and don't really have cravings (my connection got sent to rehab).

    So my question is: why do some people get addicted, and some not? I think psychological state has something to do with it, but are some bodys wired differently?

    When I did coke I had an urge: "get more," but I just...didn't. Because I could feel myself "becoming" addicted, I guess?

    Anyways, thoughts, feelings?

    What IS addiction, exactly?
     
  19. Richard_smoker

    Richard_smoker Gold Member

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    The answer to your question concerns a topic that isn't totally understood, cfb1 (btw, how the hell do you pronounce that??? oh, nevermind)

    In short, you sure do sound awful lucky! (so far) and it only makes me wonder... how old you are? (can you say?)

    If I were you, I would go find a tree and knock on some wood until your knuckles bleed--i mean, you see what you just did to yourself, right? I mean, I can totally understand you just asking the question, even going out on a limb and claiming that you seem 'less' prone to addiction. But trust me. As a weirdo friend of my dad who went off to rehab many years ago says, "That whore in the bottle (be she booze or pills or whatever) will claim every one of us if we let her get too close... if we let our guard down. She's nothing but a whore in a bottle and she's got hepatitis C. If you get TOO close to her, she'll give you hepatitis and cirrhosis!" One example of letting someone's guard down is by making a statement like YOU just did.

    One reason that I (personally) have taken on opiate addiction as my little 'problem child' and why I am so intrigued by possible opiate addiction interruption is because the sad fact is--once you get in too deep w/heroin, etc.--2 days? 5 days? 30 days??? whatever your 'breaking point' is--i.e. you can't tolerate the PHYSICAL withdrawals because they get worse each and every day that you put them off--then you are 100% OFFICIALLY ADDICTED AS THEY GET!

    I know of absolutely NO other drug which carries this property. I mean, people take adderall, 4 times/day, every day, for 2 years, and then when they quit, they just get DROWSY! generally, this feeling of drowsiness does not bring with it the overwhelming darkness, sadness, "end of the world felling," wishing they were dead, just sleepy for a few days. They take Xanax 4 times a day, and just feel nervous for a few weeks later--maybe even have trouble sleeping.

    Cocaine--well, cocaine (in my opinion) is mostly a bullshit addiction. It seems to be almost 100% psychological unless the drug is being UTILIZED to 'medicate' some type of personal issue. Even then, the withdrawal is not much more than an overblown version of psychological addiction--because coke is easy to become anchored or associated with a trigger. WHY? fuck you.

    just kidding. i dont' know. it just is.

    In terms of the answer to your question, the answer seems to be almost if not totally, genetic. Unless you were exposed to some SERIOUSLY fucked-up programming as a child--i.e. you were not made to be afraid of drugs themselves, just VERY AWARE and an early phobia may have been instilled to the idea of the addictive nature of drugs... or even still, you could have been raised in SUCH a great environment, that you score close to 100/100 (infinity)--the flat part of the bell curve--in self-respect and self-esteem.

    But, most likely, you just happen to be one of those lucky-as-hell people who don't have any family histories of alcoholism, drug addiction, or obsessive-compulsive disorders, including co-dependency.

    All you psychologists in the muthafuckin-hizzous, correct me if i'm wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2006
  20. bewilderment

    bewilderment Drug Geek Extraordinaire Platinum Member & Advisor

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