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Effects - Grapefruit + oxy..ingest before, during or after snorting?

Discussion in 'Oxycodone' started by JAM SANDWICH, Mar 12, 2011.

  1. JAM SANDWICH

    JAM SANDWICH Newbie

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    Hey all, I'm aware that there is information regarding opiate enhancers out there, and grapefruit juice being one of them. The question that I cannot find an answer to is: When is the best time to consume the grapefruit juice for the best effects?
    Before, or after insufflation?
    Will it even work if consumed after the oxy has been absorbed by opiate receptors?
     
  2. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    A few things to note,

    The grapefruit supposedly works by inhibiting certain enzymes in the stomach, that effect the metabolizing of the oxycodone. This effect only works if the oxycodone is consumed orally.

    Also the grapefruit juice should be consumed about an hour or two before ORAL consumption of opiate.

    Peace
     
  3. VirtuallyEmotionless

    VirtuallyEmotionless Silver Member

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    My Cheshire Cat is almost 100% positive that this is incorrect. Grapefruit juice potentiates Oxycodone through every route of administration, not just orally. That is what he has always read.

    Was your friend maybe thinking of Calcium Carbonate (Tums)? They only work to potentiate Oxycodone when taken orally. They work by preventing some of the degradation that happens during first pass metabolism.

    As for the original question, the grapefruit juice should be consumed before taking the Oxycodone. Tums can also help lower the acidity of SWIY's stomach, therefore degrading less Oxycodone, as well as minimizing degradation from first pass metabolism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
  4. coffster98

    coffster98 Silver Member

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    Ghetto Chem is correct. As mentioned, grapefruit has been known to interfere with the cytochrome P450 enzyme system, which normally breaks down several types of medicines. Stop that enzyme activity, and you'll have increased levels of the medicine in your system. Tagamet has comparable effects on the cytochrome P450 enzyme. However, I should point out that the grapefruit & tagamet affecting medicine issue is NOT established as medical fact. Small studies have indicated some increased activity w/ some medicines, other studies have shown no apparent change in a medicine's bio-availability or general effects. There are larger studies in the works, but so far, it's an open question.
     
  5. VirtuallyEmotionless

    VirtuallyEmotionless Silver Member

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    I like how the incorrect post was treated as correct ( I'm only talking about the one about grapefruit only working orally ). Where as SWIM's post was disregarded, although being correct. Hahaha. :applause:

    Again, grapefruit works no matter what the route of administration is.
     
  6. JAM SANDWICH

    JAM SANDWICH Newbie

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    haha yea right?
    Anyway, I agree because although he consumed the grapefruit juice a few minutes after snorting 90mg, he still noticed a stronger high that seemed to last longer. Placebo? Don't think so. He didn't have an enhanced rush obviously because he drank it as it was kicking in, but the high definitely had an extra bang to it. (he can comfortably ingest 150mg)
     
  7. VirtuallyEmotionless

    VirtuallyEmotionless Silver Member

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    Cheshire Cat says to hold out and wait at least a half hour for the grapefruit juice. He also it'll be even better if calcium carbonate ( tums ) is consumed a little before ingestion of the oxycodone.

    If SWIY is refuses to crush and ingest his oxycodone, and insists on insufflating it, then the calcium carbonate won't work. The grapefruit juice works no matter what way SWIY takes it.
     
  8. NeuroChi

    NeuroChi is not his mind Staff Member

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    VirtuallyEmotionless is right. CYP3A4 enzymes are present throughout the entire body; systemic administration of an inhibitor by any route will inhibit the enzyme. Oral administration of an inhibitor will first diffuse within the stomach digestive tract first but it will still inhibit CYP3A4 elsewhere. Oxycodone is demethylated by this enzyme so inhibiting it will potentate the effects.

    Insufflated oxycodone will be potentiated by drinking grapefruit juice before, but to what degree I can't say.
     
  9. Ghetto_Chem

    Ghetto_Chem Palladium Member

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    Swims friend stands corrected.

    Peace
     
  10. HBCBill

    HBCBill Newbie

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    My pet monkey decided to try white grapefruit juice potentiation and was very pleasantly surprised. He said he drank the juice, waited 30 minutes, and then took 10mg of oxy. He said he usually needs at least 15mg to get a nice euphoric feeling at the onset, but said that the 10mg has him feeling really good for a change. Nice and painless. And since his JRA is enjoying a revival this year, he is very happy with the results.

    White grapefruit juice? Nasty. Using it to enhance oxy? Awesome.
     
  11. Cherie

    Cherie Newbie

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    How much grapefruit juice do you have to drink actually? And you can just eat a regular grapefruit for the same effect?

    My monkey has tried grapefruit juice alot with diazepam and other benzos and pain killers, she didn't notice any ephoria or difference. But then again, she never feel any ephoria from benzos, codein or tramadol taken without the grapefruit juice either...

    Monkey hasn't tried it with Oxy though, which she actually feels the ephoria and high from taken just orally. So if grapefruit will work on this, that would be great.
     
  12. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke Titanium Member

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    when a substance is used IV it bypasses the liver so it wouldn't potentiate an injected dose would it?
     
  13. g666d

    g666d Silver Member

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    The metabolites are active too though, i am really not sure but a demethylated oxycodone looks to me alot like oxymorphone, and wikipedia says oxymorphone is one of the metabolites. This would be one of the good ones and inhibiting this process may not be desirable. (Moreso with codeine than oxy, because codeine is not active until it is demethylated to morphine.)

    On the flip side, slowing destruction of oxy via inhibiting metabolic process should positively affect duration, and this will occur no matter what the original ROA (but effects more pronounced for oral intake, because of first pass metabolism).

    ...IDrK though, whatever floats your boat I guess. + im really tired so probably missed something
     
  14. whocaresdude91

    whocaresdude91 Silver Member

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    I tried to potentiate my opiates with grapefruit juice and I really didn't think it made the effects stronger. The best potentiator of opiates is Dextromethorphan (DXM) , the active ingrediant in cough syrup. Take a theropuetic dose (30 mg -45) and you will definitly feel the effects more pronounced than usual. I think DXM is a mirror chemical to levomethorphan (an opiate) so it's very similar. THAT IS THE BEST POTENTIATOR!!!!! LOL, put the grapefruit juice down my friend (my opinion).
     
  15. onlythebuesky

    onlythebuesky Newbie

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    I realize its an older one but this is related. I think there may be truth to it I heard about it sometime ago but forgot to try it and gave it a brush thinking it sounded like one of the net myths that gets recycled around.

    Until that is I had an oxy script filled on the weekend. I noticed on the bottle where they stick the med specific notice label warnings one of them said "do not take this medication with grapefruit juice.

    Right away it made me think hmm that "myth" may actually hold truth to it and it will increase effects to those that get caught off guard if they coincidentally were to take their oxy with grapefruit juice.

    That prompted me to pop in our local for some juice and try it out. far as the increase in performance after ingesting the GF juice goes, I think I feel a little bit itchier than usual, and in some places I never knew I had before. Seriously though It seems to be true, the effects are feeling stronger and seems to be lasting longer.

    onlythebuesky added 8 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

    Oops. I forgot to mention thats after ingesting the oxy. And to be honest the potency seems to be as strong as when Ive snorted them. With the added bonus that its lasting longer after it kicks in.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  16. monkeyspanker

    monkeyspanker

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    Thanks for dragging this thread up again, Opiates are a weakness of mine. I found 2 15mg oxycodone's and due to my lack of use, I quartered them, 3.75mgs a dose. All is fine, nice relief from minor back pain and a bonus slight euphoric feeling. I stumbled upon this info:

    " T-45) 600mg Tagamet HB(Cimetidine HCl), a large glass of tonic water (or another source of quinine), and a large glass of (white) Grapefruit juice, preferably from concentrate.
    * T-35) 30mg DXM HBr, 4mg CPM, 25mg Benadryl(Diphenhydramine HCl), 330mg Naproxen(Aleve).
    * T-20) 2 Tums OR 1.5 Tbsp. of Baking SODA. (Obviously this step only applies if you are eating your opes)
    * T-0) Parachute\chew\rail\bang your opiate\opioid.
    * T+10) Smoke a bowl or two. Not more, you don't want to over power it.

    In depth explanation:

    The Tagamet HB (Cimetidine) is a broad CYP450 inhibitor. This basically means it 'clogs' the enzymes that metabolize opiates\opioids and clear 'em out of the body. Tagamet HB tablets are 200mg each, so the recommended 600mg is 3 tabs. They're OTC, and you can get a box of 50 generic 200mg cimetidine tabs at CVS for like $5.49.

    Quinine is an ingredient in tonic water, and functions the same way as Tagamet. It inhibits the CYP450 set, more specifically, CYP2D6. It doesn't 'clog' as many enzymes as Tagamet does, but it STRONGLY 'clogs' CYP2D6, which is the MAIN enzyme for opiates like oxycodone, heroin, hydromorphone, etc. A large glass of straight tonic water is plenty. I prefer the "Vintage" brand. You can buy a liter of tonic water at any grocery for like $2.00.

    White grapefruit juice contains three ingredients that clog the CYP450 set. However, it doesn't clog CYP2D6 too well, which is the main one for most opes. It does strongly 'clog' CYP3A4 nicely though, and although that's almost an 'auxillary' enzyme for alot of opiates, it definitely helps out. Again, it's cheap. Go to any grocery store and you should be able to get a nice big bottle of 100% whitre grapefruit juice from concentrate for like $2.50-$3.50.

    An important thing to note for the grapefruit juice is the percentage of juice. A lot of companies make "White grapefruit juice" that is basically water, corn syrup, and like 10% juice. This is almost a waste of your money. You want it to say 100% juice, and also, you want to make sure it's 100% white grapefruit juice! A very common business practice for juice companies is to create 'juice cocktails'. These are beverages that are MAINLY cheap filler juices like apple and pear, with the advertised fruit only partially accounting for that '100% juice' the bottle sports so vividly. Look in the ingredients list, and make sure the only juice in there is white grapefruit, preferably from concentrate.

    Nutritionally, juices from concentrate are usually not as good. However, for one reason or another, grapefruit juice from concentrate can contain 25%-40% MORE naringin, bergamottin and dihydroxybergamottin; the three enzyme inhibitors present in white grapefruit.

    Now, some of you may be wondering WHY 'clogging' these enzymes is so beneficial. Basically, by slowing or even completely stopping the metabolization of opiates, they last MUCH longer. Also, blood plasma levels of opiates have been shown to vastly higher when the CYP450 set is strongly inhibited; meaning their is a higher peak, and it lasts longer.

    It's a win-win situation, trust me. ^_^

    On to the other shit. Benadryl(diphenhydramine HCl) and CPM(chlorpheniramine maleate) are both over-the-counter anti-histamines that increase the analgesic and euphoric properties of opiates to some extent. They also help cut down on the ope-itch. In addition, these guys also slightly inhibit subset CYP2D6.

    Seeing a pattern here?

    DXM (Dextromethorphan HBr, Robitussin, Zicam, etc.[not that it needed an intro on this board]) has a special effect in this formula. Although it doesn't inhibit the CYP450 set to any appreciable extent, it does contribute to analgesia and euphoria for all major opiates. Also, it has been shown to prevent the build up of tolerance! 30mg of DXM a good half hour or so before dosing will definitely slow any tolerance build up if you use this method every time. And with opiates, that's a VERY big deal.

    The Naproxen(Aleve) adds to the analgesia and euphoria. Aleve comes in 220mg tabs, so by 330mg I mean one-and-a-half tabs.

    The tums\baking soda is only necessary if you're eating the opiates in question. Basically, they lower the PH of the stomach\GI tract [well, technically it raises the PH, but ya know what I mean] which allows more of the opiate to be absorbed into the blood.

    It's fine to smoke a little bud, but too much ruins the high IMO. And when I say a little, I mean like .2g, tops. If you have a moster tolerance, titrate accordingly, but if you smoke a few times a week .3 will be perfect.

    To further breakdown all this pre-dose potentiation, I'll make it easy for you guys and just tell ya how many pills to take, and the exact way I consume them

    * T-45) 3 200mg Cimetidine pills, washed down with a HUGE tonic water\white grapefruit juice cocktail.
    * T-35) 1 Coriciden Cough & Cold Low Blood Pressure, 1 Benadryl, and one and a half Aleve.
    * T-20) 2 extra strength Tums if I'm popping the opes.
    * T-0) Rail\pop those shits.
    * T+10) *Smokes a bowl*

    The Coriciden has both 30mg of DXM and 4 mg of CPM, so it's good for killin' 2 birds with one stone. No pun intended.

    Also, some people are under the impression that all these drugs make the high "dirty". They CAN, no doubt about it, but in the dosages I listed, there are *NO* perceived changes in the quality of the high. It really does feel like you took more opiate, minus some itching.

    Anyway, that's basically it! Hope I manage to help some of you guys out on your voyages to the land of nod,"


    monkeyspanker added 24 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

    So let me add, all I did was take a large glass, 8ozs + of tonic water, then an equal size glass of 100% white grapefruit juice from concentrate ( Ocean Spray). Waited about a half hour and took 2 tums tablets and my 3.75mg oxycodone orally at the same time.

    I really felt a nice boost from this 'cocktail'! from my memory, I never cared for taking 7.5mgs of oxycodone, it felt uncomfortable, very itchy and feeling just a bit too high for me. This combo, feels just right, I don't think I'll add the authors Tagamet or Benedryl to the mix.

    I know my limits and will just say "NO" to any future pills after this stash is gone, which is just 6 more daily doses to potentiate over the next 6 days. I did notice a feeling of being a little higher than usual upon waking from sleep to get ready for work the next day, it was not unpleasant, like a hangover, just still feeling a little high after 11 hours of taking the 'cocktail' and the oxy. I'm on a very small dose, so......***Warning***, drop your dose by at least 1/4 or more safely 1/3 if you are using higher doses like 40 to 80 mgs of oxycodone and using the above cocktail...it really does kick it up a couple notches and in a pleasant way in my honest opinion!

    Investigate, research and learn, play safe,

    M~
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016