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Ground Poppy Pod in Capsules for Eating

Discussion in 'Opium & Poppy' started by jayjohnson81, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Some dudes were talking at a coffee shop and discussing why, if the tea tastes so terrible, why dont more folks just eat the stuff?

    One guy went so far as to say, why not grind the pod and pack the powder into some gel caps? No nasty taste, and it would be more efficient for material use even. As in, take 1/4 of the usual dose material to test effect.

    The other guy said he heard that you dont get as much of a solid onset - a more gradual coming on of the effects. Also that the effects from eating lasted much longer.

    What do you all think about the differences between consuming pod tea and eating the powder? Seemed like an interesting little discussion...
     
  2. Emmajs

    Emmajs

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    Dude, your supposed to arrange the dried flowers in a vase and view them.:vibes:

    But you and your friends are on the right track, I've heard people talk about juice and grounds, or paracuting. Try a search.
     
  3. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Of course I don't plan on doing this - just something I'm curious about. Curiousity is not illegal (yet) if I remember correctly. ;)

    Parchuting can come in handy in a pinch I suppose, but gelcaps just seem so more `classy.`

    My question is in dose difference. Say if one is used to a tea prepared with cold water, lemon and lime juice, stirred occassionally and kept in the freezer steeping for about 30 minutes. They use 7 grams of ground material. If they switch to eating - would 3.5 grams material in caps be about the same?

    I'm curious about hard facts on what percentage of alkaloids end up in the tea and in your system, as opposed to the percentage from eating ground material.
     
  4. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    Since the alkaloid content even for different pods on the same plant (example: hens & chickens) can vary, there is no way to determine the alkaloid content unless you chemically test it.

    Also, since the opiates are all water soluble, the tea will extract almost all of the content anyway. One does not have to drink the tea once this is obtained. One could easily make the "gel caps" you are talking about by evaporating off the water content as one has mentioned in other threads.

    This seems like a more logical way in SWIM's opinion for a number of reasons.
    :thumbsup: 1. the dosage is more controlled.
    :thumbsup: 2. because the alkaloids are now in a pre-extracted form they are more readily ABSORBED by the stomach walls rather than DIGESTED.

    here is an example, lets say that someone usually makes around 1 liter of liquid from 6 or 7 pods and shares that with a friend (roughly a large cup each with 3.5 pods) if one were to evaporate off the water content and is left with the amber/brown/black goo at the end one would STILL have the same amount of alkaloids in it. therefor one would assume that one would halve that, put it in a gel cap, and share the experience with ones friend.

    If one were to strain this off through a coffee filter before evaporating off the water content, one would find that they are left with plant material and gray wax like sludge in the filters (SWIM uses around 4 filters onto of each other in case they break from moisture). This sludge is totally useless and can be discarded and the resulting water content evaporated for an even more refined and cleaner result (in theory).

    with grounds, the alkaloid content of the plant material would be the same to VERY slightly more than the tea since almost all of the alkaloid content is extracted when using the right method. IF one were to find the right dosage for ones self or already know the right dosage for ones self then they would find that the equivalent dosage from dried grounds would be the same or very similar to the dosage from tea.

    remember, that is an example. SWIM is in no way suggesting any dosage or suggesting to try it, this is . . . as always . . for research purposes only. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2007
  5. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Not that it matters much, but why do you say dosage more controlled? With constant variability of materials potency, one always needs to slowly test and build up to correct dosages.

    2nd point - I LIKE! :thumbsup: This could make for some potent little life-enablers for people with chronic pain. Definately the route to go if pills are preferred. Although - time might be an issue. (Hard to beat the grind pod and fill capsule route for brevity!) In my current mental state I can't image how to speed up the evaporating part without possibly destroying the whole point in the first place (from heat.) Small batches or large surface areas to evaporate I suppose. (Recalling scenes from Blow right now...)

    Here's a question - how do we find out the minimum amount of water needed to extract from 1 unit(gram, pound,etc) its sought after components?
    As always it would depend on variable potency of source material. But how does one check available solubility in solution?

    Someone that is me would never consider attempting such experiments in anything but theory and discussion. I love hypothesizing because I'm just fascinated by such a potent natural pain reliever. Respect and love for the Earff.
     
  6. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    The reason that smoking is more controlled is because of the immediate high.
    Here is an example: SWIM takes a bit of refined and cooked opium about the size of a match head and smokes it. this may produce the desired effect for him and is definitely not enough to overdose someone in SWIMs experience. However, if that was not enough one could keep using half match head sizes until they find the right size for them. Remember that once a tea or pill is taken, it cannot be "un-taken" or "un-drank" unless you try to throw up, but by then most of the alkaloids will be absorbed by Ones stomach as it is HIGHLY absorbable by the stomach walls. This should conclude that smoking is the safer way, however some people prefer to eat or drink it and it ends up being totally a preference thing. One is NOT advising you to do either, just merely presenting the facts so that if one WERE to do it they will go into it with more knowledge.

    hope this has helped.
     
  7. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    Sorry I missed SWIM's question in ones previous post. Here is the information SWIM has on this subject. In SWIM's 20 odd years of traveling, especially the S.E.Asian regions he has found that most peoples whom produce opium tend to use 10 times the weight/volume in water Vs the material started with.

    For example again: If one were to have 1 gram of gum one would use 10 times the weight / volume in water to dissolve it in. 1 gram in W/V is the equivalent of 10ml W/V of water. Therefor one would dissolve a gram of opium (preferably cooked) into 100ml of water. If one here to have 10 grams of opium gum they would use 1 liter. So on and so forth. This has been found to have a somewhat unreliable potency level of around 500mg of active alkaloids in every gram on average. But of course then there is the paradox of the variable potency. Taking this into account, if one were to start with a bit that weighs around 0.1 of a gram (match head size) then by deduction one comes to the conclusion that it will contain no more than 50mg of active alkaloids on average. Taking into account the more potent alkaloids in the opiate family, morphine being the most desirable, the average morphine content is around 10 to 15 percent. Therefor AGAIN one would come to the deduction that in the 50mg of active alkaloids one would have in theory around 5mg of morphine, a very safe and standard level which is used commonly by hospitals around the world. Next time you are in a hospital take note of the dosage of painkillers one receives. It is usually a 5mg morphine sulphate injection at hourly intervals for fairly heavy pain relief. Morphine sulphate is quite easy to make also SWIM tells me, it is a very simple process in which sulphuric acid and lime calcite are used.

    Again One hopes this has been of some help for Ones research into this matter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2007
  8. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    But we're talking about the product being capsules.

    Of course, once you've gone to the work of evap, you *have* smokeable product, right? BUT - one of the biggest benefits of ingesting is it is the least harmful to the body. Too many opportunities for smoking throughout our lives and lungs are not cheap to replace (or fix, especially if with chemotherapy!)
     
  9. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Same if we are talking about 1 g of pod thats been ground/powdered? 100ml per 1 g?

    I just read of a guy who typically made a (double) cup of tea with 8g pod and only about 500ml - would you say from your observations that this guys probably saturated his solution and would most likely not be getting the most possible from the extraction? Wasting in fact?

    Like I said - this is fascinating stuff to think about. Thanks for discussing this stuff and sharing your knowledge with me!
     
  10. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    yes, because of the saturation point he may have not had enough water depending on the alkaloid content of his poppies.
     
  11. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    again, even though one mentioned the smokable form it was relative for dosage. Since it is a safer short-term way one could determine their minimum dosage and work up from there. Once they had found that dosage they could then begin to ingest with less risk.
     
  12. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Ah, much respect sir. From this post and searching, I've learned alot from you today! Thank you. What was with the travel? None of my business anyways...

    Wait, are you saying that the patient could smoke the product first to determine dose for their capsules? Am I understanding that correctly?

    Thanks for the convo - it's been very entertaining.
     
  13. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    yes, or one could use the mentioned approximates to determine dosage and roll the dice to find out. lol
     
  14. keats

    keats Titanium Member

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    The problem with the poppy pod capsule idea is the same problem as the (mescaline) cactus capsule idea I've heard tossed around: there's too much material. Is it possible? Yes. Is it worth it? Probably not. Even ground into fine powder (which is a bitch with poppy pods) the amount of plant material you need to eat/drink/consume orally in any way to get high is large enough that putting it all into capsules and then eating it would probably be more trouble than it's worth. But to answer your original question: yeah it's possible, but I wouldn't try it, just suck it up and drink it.
     
  15. Nacumen

    Nacumen

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    SWIM couldn't imagine that eating so much material would sit well with him. If he had to choose based on no previous knowledge of which would feel better, he'd go with the tea, just because he'd assume his digestive system would have to deal with far less than if he had consumed the whole mass of the pods themselves.
     
  16. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Well, it kinda depends on the size on ones habit guys.

    SWIM says it take 3 caps to get 1g of material. I would assume (uh-oh!) that ingesting all the material will get you more of the medicine than the same amount used to make tea. Could be wrong...

    And SWIM said for consistancy of material and absorption in tea, she always fully grinds pods. From there filling caps is a simple enough task for a child. If ones chronic pain condition is in the fingers, there is also a $10 piece of plastic that holds about 50 caps at a time to make filling easy enough for a helper monkey.

    With 6 caps, one can re-dose easily at 2 grams material. In fact - how hard then is 4grams at 12 caps? Am I just overly eager to swallow things? :laugh: (It was wide open, I had to take it. Even at my own expense...)

    Hey - maybe the extraction of the natural fiber is whats causing the constipation from natures gift?

    I hate to even discuss the point as a better idea was already presented by samuraiGecko
     
  17. jaffacake

    jaffacake Silver Member

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    The other problem with eating the dried poppy is you have no idea where the poppies have been. They could have been laid on a turkish farmers floor next to where the goat shits for 3 months.
     
  18. jayjohnson81

    jayjohnson81 Titanium Member

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    Ok - but I don't think the low temperture (to avoid destroying the goods) would sterilize tea (if heat is even used to make the tea!) So , part of poppies is the natural goodness of goat poo! Mmmmm!
     
  19. jaffacake

    jaffacake Silver Member

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    You can boil poppies without destroying the goodies tho and even go a lot higher than boiling point otherwise espresso machines wouldn't work so well. It wouldn't take much of a boil to get rid of the microbes spread to the poppies from the bottom of the goatherders sandals.
     
  20. keats

    keats Titanium Member

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    That's false, jaffa cake. Opiate alkaloids begin to be destroyed at temperatures significantly below the boiling point. Read the flake opium guide, for example, where samuraigecko recommends never letting the water so much as simmer, much less boil. That's a recommendation you'll hear (to varying degrees, some would say some simmering is ok) from anyone who's knowledgable about making tea/opium, or anyone who's read a bit into the chemistry for that matter. Boiling the water while making tea is also unnecesary, the poppies don't need to be sterilized.