Hallucinogens and permanent personality change?

Discussion in 'Peyote & San Pedro' started by botas, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. botas

    botas Newbie

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    Hey, I have heard that hallucinogens can cause permanent personality changes. Does anyone know how accurate this is? and if so, is it usually for the better? I was considering buying 2 oz of dried peruvian torch, but wonders if it would be a good messing around with his his psyche. SWIM never really delved into that realm. Also, whats your alls favorite ethnobotanicals? my tryin kratom this weekend, he hopes for a fun time.
     
  2. Bajeda

    Bajeda Super Moderator Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Hallucinogens are not without their risks. People at risk for certain mental illnesses should be wary as psychdelics can act as catalysts for the development and progression of these conditions. If You has smoked cannabis without any negative effects he should be fine, though one can never be too cautious. Other problems can also occur, such as HPPD. You can look around in the lsd and shroom sections to find more info on possible negative lasting mental side effects.


    Check this thread for an example of what one might notice if they were experiencing long term negative mental effects from psychedelics ----> https://drugs-forum.com/threads/25323


    Check to see if You has a history of mental illness in his family. Also if You has used cannabis in the past with or without negative mental effects that would be good to consider. If nothing of worry comes up You should be able to experiment without worry, though careful responsible use is necessary.


    Also, if You wanted to trip, 2oz of peruvian torch may not be enough. You would want to do the research and read up on doses and methods of preparation before embarking on such a journey.
     
  3. botas

    botas Newbie

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    This is the reason I have always been wary with hallucinogens. SWIM's father is bipolar and a long time ago, I used to smoke bud... alot. Upon stopping, I had acute panic attack syndrome, or something like that (basically a 5 week panic attack) and temporary psychoses. It scared the fuck out of SWIM and he hasnt touched weed since. I have always been interest in hallucinogens, but is afraid mescaline or shrooms would be even worse than what happend with weed. Is SWIM right to be cautious? btw, I am still lookin for a fun ethnobotanical.
     
  4. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    "Personality change" is a generic term for many possible events. It could range from someone who was thinking of joining the military during the Vietnam War to protect God & Country taking some LSD and, instead of signing up as planned, growing their hair long and attending protests. Is that a drug-induced personality change? Maybe. Or maybe the result of seeing more parts of the Big Picture.

    On the more clinical side of the term, it is possible for a person to have a latent psychosis released from the magnification of their psyche that occurs from the psychedelic experience. While some would argue that by taking LSD, Johnney went crazy. That LSD caused a profound and negative change in Johnney. Most involved in psychology, though, would say the LSD (or whatever) merely hastened an underlying process. Tabloid newspaper headlines aside.

    The important thing to understand about psychedelics is that they are very powerful substances which should only be used by those who have done a great deal of study. Keeping them illegal actually serves to cause disasters wherein unprepared people wind up with (rarely) a full-blown psychosis coming to the forefront and a negative definition of a "personality change" - permanent or otherwise. "Permenant" is a scare-tactic that infers one is damaged beyond repair. Well, everytime one wakes up in the morning and goes to work or whatever - they are "permenantly" changed as a result of the events of the day. So let's throw "permanant" in the trash for now. Can the psychedelic experience alter one's point of view? Yes. Can a person who takes a psychedelic drug end up needing psychological help as a result of a psychotic break? Yes - rarely but yes.

    I would suggest to anyone who is considering using such to sit down and take an honest inventory of themselves. If you have a deep fear about an aspect of yourself - deal with this before you embark. The defence-mechanisms one has in their mind are cast aside on psychedelics. The "monster" at the door will walk right in and make itself at home. If you have no deep fears, all should be fine. This is a simple screening process that was in place before the government(s) outlawed these amazing tools - opening the door to unwitting children learning myths and outright lies in place of accurate information - along allowing access to these drugs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2006
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  5. IdiotBox

    IdiotBox Newbie

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    Positive or negative aside, as those are just subjective, ANY new experience will be included in the memory data base that influences decisions in the future. How that effects (or affects) personality is relative to the experience and the experiencer.

    I think it is a "risk" to play with our neuro-chemistry, however, he does not necessarily think that it is any more risky than other behaviors that people generally take for granted or disregard the important or implications of all together.

    Any new information gets added to the pool, if you create lots of links to that same or similar information, then yes, eventually, it will end up changing you, good, bad or otherwise. But change is inevitable so...it's up to you. SWIM might also add that making wise and informed choices can help to reduce perceived negative results. With anything, too much or too little may be a bad thing.
     
  6. drugsrbad

    drugsrbad Newbie

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    bi-polar isn't really that big of a deal, I am bi polar. He has done lsd and shrooms with no problem. One of my other friends smoked weed everyday for a couple years than 6 months ago decided to stop cold turkey. He ended up having really bad panic attacks like you mentioned. He smoked casue he had a messed up family life and smoked to forget aobut his shitty father. Weed doesnt get rid of problems it jsut bottles them up till you confront them, i think this is what causes panic attacks. Plus, the main symptom of weed withdrawl is depressino and anxiety.
     
  7. DrMuffy

    DrMuffy Silver Member

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    Yes all hallucenogens (sp?) can cause permanent personality changes, wether good or bad. As SWInagognog says, almost anything can cause PPC (permanent personality change). Hallucenogens can help guide religious/spiritual people closer to their own "nirvana" or they could bring out someones inner schizophrenia and send them to a psych ward. Most of the time though the effect hallucenogens have on one's personality are short terms, but PPC can happen too. The risks are mildly small in SWIdr's opinion but he does not suggest thta You try the peruvian torch unless he is comfortable with the risk factor.
     
  8. genaro

    genaro Iridium Member

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    psychedelic experiences are rather intense ones (especially first times), therefore such experiences can influence your personality, as any strong affective experience could do. Any experience will leave you somewhat changed, that's how we evolve in life.
    The main question is how deeply one will be affected, and how well one will accept the changes.

    ...in people with predisposition to psychosis (or such border-line tendancies), psychedelics can trigger quite a deep change (which can either be dramatic or progressive), and this change can possibly be felt as quite a pain (a long hard time to reunite all the pieces, if they ever fully recover from it), for instance psychedelic use can intensify discreet and well accepted obsessions and paranoia into bad ones that will be a nuisance to the individual

    ...especially cause the individual will find himself more aware of his subconscious mind (psychedelic do this), and therefore more aware of some aspects of his subsconscious that can possibly be difficult to handle/integrate...because beeing conscious of their existence can make these more present in one's everyday life, while before psychedelic use such matters were more deeply hidden in the subconscious mind and therefore less present in one's consciousness (and better accepted due to their subtlety).
    Such internal conflicts can possibly last for quite sometime in one's mind...until one possibly find out how to live well along with all his personal experiences.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2007
  9. Humanity

    Humanity Titanium Member

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    Another excerpt from "Cosmic Trigger" by Robert Anton Wilson:

    "An ideal reimprinting clinic, as Leary visualized it, would work like this. Assume you have a personality problem that you want to change. Maybe you're a foot fetishist, or you drink too much, or you feel you can't learn mathematics, or you're incompetent with tools, or whatever. You go to the clinic..."

    "Leary used this technique with prisoners in the convict rehabilitation project and claims to have cut the recidivism (new crim) rate by 80 per cent. Leary had defined success or failure in terms of where the bodies were in space-time two years after release from prison (don't ask - Humanity's note:)) Dr. Walter Huston Clark, in 1976, noted that the bodies of most of Leary's convicts known to him were still outside prison in space-time after 15 years."


    There's another excerpt here how they use LSD to 'cure' homosexuality.


    EDIT:

    A few more quotes then...

    " 'You're talking about using these drugs to change the whole personality - ego and mind and emotions and all?'
    'Yes, that's the whole point. LSD with the right set and setting can change anything we consider ourselves. Therefore, it's the most potent brainwashing agent in the world. That's what my Two Commandments are all about:
    1. Thou shalt not alter the consciousness of thy neighbor without his or her consent
    2. Thou shalt not prevent thy neighbor from altering his or her consciousness"

    "The program will probably include music and ritual - but may be as simple asjust relaxing your tense muscles one by one. At the peak, the imprint is made. You emerge with a new reality: what was invisible or impossible before is now part of your self and perceptual field."

    Tremendously interesting stuff, I suggest everyone interested in these matters pick up this book :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2007