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Health - Health Warning:DO NOT smoke while on tramadol.

Discussion in 'Tramadol' started by RoboCodeine7610, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Robo recently opened up a thread on the possible role of tobacco in tramadol related seizures, based on all the experiences he's read in which the seizure begins just after smoking a cigarette.

    It was just an interesting theory at first and was only looking for some feedback on this theory, but since then Robo has come across a lot of similar experiences, without even looking for them.Some are from other sites, some from D.F.

    This is the original thread:

    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157449

    And here are some quotes from experience reports on this type of interaction:


    (Having a seizure)


    I'm sure more members will post similar experiences after reading this thread, since this seems to be quite common.

    If anyone has a theory on why this occurs, please do share.But the main purpose of this thread is to spread the warning to tramadol users:

    DO NOT SMOKE WHILE USING TRAMADOL,SPECIALLY IN HIGH DOSES

    Robo
     
  2. Smeg

    Smeg Opiates & Opioids Staff Member

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    An interesting connection, swiRobo. Red doesn't know why it may be hazardous, but has heard anecdotal accounts of similar incidents. He wonders if it's the nicotine that's the culprit, or perhaps one or many of the other chemicals in tobacco?

    He does recall another danger whilst smoking cigarettes, and being on high doses of tramadol (400mg daily) which was nodding off with a lit ciggy in his hand and nearly setting fire to the place on at least two occasions.

    It was some time ago, and he realises that this scenario may be familiar to many opiate/opioid users, and ex-users.
     
  3. stoner9493

    stoner9493 Newbie

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    haha yes i think that the culprit for it all is the cigs.but not sure what part tho(what ingredeints)and u used my quote haha 15 trammadol
     
  4. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Robo is extremely busy at the moment, but as soon as he catches his breath he will begin to investigate any possible explanations.He now has a decent theory, and he'll elaborate it as soon as he does some research.

    In the mean time, any swimmers reading this can contribute by checking the info in their tramadol, see if it has any warnings interactions with tobacco.

    Also, anyone who's had this happen can name their cigarette brand, if there's a higher incidence of seizures with high nicotine cigarettes, then we can point our research into the nicotine and we can rule out other components found in tobacco.

    Robo will post his theory soon so that it may be opened to debate,

    Robo
     
  5. Elizabeth2

    Elizabeth2 Newbie

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    Wow this is extremely interesting. Chicken has a friend who is highly addicted to tramadol. Chicken has never touched the stuff.

    Chickens friend has had 5 seizures. When her friend was talking about her first seizure she pointed out she was on the couch smoking a cigarette and went into a seizure. She doesnt remember the seizure, just before it, and waking up in the hospital.

    She smokes Newports.
     
  6. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Note the similarities between that post and the ones above.They're all exactly the same:"I went outside to have a cigarette and the next thing I remember is waking up in...."

    This cannot possibly be a coincidence.

    It would be great if you could specify the nicotine content in the specific type she smokes.

    Robo
     
  7. Elizabeth2

    Elizabeth2 Newbie

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    She smoke Newport regulars which have a nicotine content of 1.4. From what I have read Newports and Camel unfiltered have the highest nicotine levels.
     
  8. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Okay, so Robo has stumbled upon a pretty solid theory based on this article:

    http://www.health.am/ab/more/current-cigarette-smokers-at-increased-risk-of-seizures/

    So it would make a lot of sense that 2 drugs which lower your seizure threshold will produce a seizure in most cases.

    Only thing is, I couldn't find any info on the mechanism though which tobacco smoke increases seizures since it's a statistical study and the cause is probably not even known...

    Still, Robo did come up with something else:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8232704

    So tobacco smoke induces various P-450 enzymes, now guess which enzymes metabolize tramadol into 5 different metabolites?

    Truth is, that as far as Robo has read, it is not known which metabolite, if not the tramadol itself, is responsable for the seizures.Now the late onset of every seizure Robo has read about (always 1h. or more) suggests that a metabolite is the cause of the seizures, who knows which one of the 5.

    So:

    What if the tobacco smoke induces the enzyme that converts tramadol into that seizure-causing metabolite?

    Robo thinks both theories have their merit, but is more inclined to believe the first theory since the seizures always occurred immediately after smoking.

    Still, what do you think?I'd appreciate any input I got.

    Robo

    RoboCodeine7610 added 5 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

    That's pretty high compared to most brands, highest I've ever heard of to be honest.Obviously, nicotine has nothing to do with my second theory but could very well be the cause of the statistical results in the first study posted.

    If we could find more members who've had seizures while on tramadol/tobacco, and most smoke high-nicotine brands, then it could be assumed that the nicotine is the element responsable for lowering seizure threshold in smokers.

    Robo
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
  9. FuzzyDuck

    FuzzyDuck Newbie

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    The fact that someone took 750mg of tramadol would increase the risk of seizures anyway; when I takes trams he always takes 200mg and smokes like a chimney - he has never had any difficulties. When using higher doses of tramadol the seizure threshold is decreased thus I could not recommend anyone take more than 400mg a day. I find that 200mg is his ceiling dose anyway; anymore and he ceases to be high
     
  10. Smeg

    Smeg Opiates & Opioids Staff Member

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    It's important to discern the differences between "safe" recreational doses (around 200mg) of tramadol or less and those that may be significantly more difficult to manage. Ranges of equalling or exceeding 400mg daily would be a good capping point to avoid the risk of seizure.

    It has been well documented in this forum (and other sources) that harm can happen to the individual in excess when using tramadol.

    Robo's observations seem to add extra validity and gravitas to the observance of safety regarding fat doses in conjunction with cigarette smoking.

    Red wonders what the interaction(s) could be?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  11. Spacefish

    Spacefish Newbie

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    Its hard to point out exactly what caused any of it, unless you were able to learn every thing the said swimmer was doing, eating, drinking, amount of stress, age, health, why they were taking Tramadol to began with and how much they had taken. So much goes into play that its hard to really point your finger at just one thing.
     
  12. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    True, but even though it's no scientific study, what are the chances of people just having seizures in the middle of having a cigarette or right after???

    Just use the theory of probability, there's no way it's all a coincidence.

    At the very least, it's enough evidence to not smoke when using tramadol, specially in higher doses.At least Robo knows he won't...

    Still, if there IS an interaction between the two, I'm sure there are members in this forum that can explain them way better than Robo could and I encourage them to do so.

    Robo
     
  13. EricB

    EricB Newbie

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    I take tramadol since 2002 and I smoke : never had a problem at all......
     
  14. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Well good for you, glad to hear that.Too bad the people quoted were not as lucky....

    Robo
     
  15. Jasim

    Jasim Gold Member

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    Nicotine is a stimulant on cholinergic receptors. I'm guessing it has to do with the stimulant properties of nicotine. Increased risk of seizures would likely also be seen with other types of stimulants, such as amphetamines.

    Tramadol, particularly high doses, lowers seizure threshold so even a mild stimulant like nicotine could be just enough to send a use into a seizure.
     
  16. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Makes sense.In that case, could the same be said about caffeine?If so, maybe it would be best to avoid it as well.

    Robo
     
  17. TheUnicorn

    TheUnicorn Newbie

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    Interesting thread. My unicorn friend takes tramadol every now and then, he usually smokes on them, he's not a heavy smoker just the odd one or two on occasion. However on a 250mg dose once he smoked a bong of high grade mixed with tobacco, he felt like he was going to have a seizure he thinks, was quite a scary moment.
     
  18. RoboCodeine7610

    RoboCodeine7610 Silver Member

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    Robo thinks he´s experienced what you´re describing.For Robo, they were just random muscle ¨twitches¨but felt like they were due to some sort of uncontrolable Ënergy¨and had to tense up his muscles and stay still in order to avoid going into a full-blown seizure.

    Indeed quite unpleasent

    Robo
     
  19. [tanarilla.]

    [tanarilla.] Silver Member

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    Maybe. My bunny smoked every time she took Tramadol and she never had a seizure.

    Though if you're predictable to seizures, you shouldn't take Tramadol anyway? Neither should you smoke? Nicotine on its own can trigger seizures through oxygen deprivation of the brain, and excess carbon monoxide, I believe, as well as affecting some of the neurons that can cause seizures
     
  20. bignbrown

    bignbrown R.I.P. Silver Member

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    750mg is a dangerous dose of tramadol anyway, no wonder swim exp'd a seizure :s