Help with withdrawal?

Discussion in 'Morphine' started by gina.g, Jan 1, 2007.

  1. gina.g

    gina.g Newbie

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    Please forgive me if I appear to be stumbling and flailing a little, I am brand new to this forum, and am writing on behalf of a friend who was rapidly put on 200 mg of slow release morphine a day almost exactly a year ago, and who has recently reduced their dose to the minimum, and is now 'clean', has been for nearly 3 weeks but is going through hell with withdrawal symptoms. Their GP told them that they would not experience withdrawal because the morphine had been given for pain, but they have certainly experienced cramps, increased pain in all joints and diarrhoea and nausea, and also some unpleasant hallucinations during the worst cramps. Is there anything they can find over-the-counter which may help? All their GP could tell them to do was to take it very slowly when reducing the dose, but the Zormorph only came in 10 mg minimal dosage, so that there is the level they stopped at. The reason they were put on this high-dose is because they went into hospital for a minor operation before last Christmas, and whilst on the operating table their right hip was broken, and as they already had a pre-existing disability it seems as though they were just doped up and sent home to die. Seriously, it has been an awful year to watch them go through, and they seem to have had little if any help from their doctors. My friend has had previous experience with taking drugs recreationally, experimented with heroin some 15 years ago, regularly took large quantities of cannabis until 10 years ago (when they found the paranoia seemed to encroach on their enjoyment too much), because there disability is a muscular weakness, they found great results when taking amphetamine, but the payback was apparently a bit too much. I suppose my point is, they are very aware of the pleasurable side of drugs, and therefore are able, to a certain degree I suppose, to distinguish between the lack of euphoria and pleasure when taking the morphine. One thing they do feel is important to let you know is that they never felt good pain control from the morphine, and did in fact take oral suspension morphine for 'breakthrough' pain control, to the point where one day they actually took nearly double their opiates on top of the slow release, and although actually felt was so tired that they were unable to sleep through, appeared to feel some exacerbation of pain -- but of course this does affect one's breathing, and they certainly noticed it became more laboured.

    Please forgive me if I have written too much, I don't know how much detail is useful or not, all I know is that my friend is really finding this so difficult, the only assistance they are receiving is from a close friend (guess who!), and all the GP seems to want to say is that they should have reduced more slowly, take plenty of paracetamol and not to worry. My friend is now in an incredible amount of pain, more so than before their hip was broken (it was fixated by two screws four days after breaking, if you want any more details just ask), although they have always had a fair amount of pain because of their disability and from scoliosis, positionally etc, but they are petrified of the only route forward being to go back onto the morphine; yesterday we had a long discussion about how they feel as though they have been without emotion or life for the past year, and how they felt they only part existed. If there is anything you can suggest for me to be able to get them, or do, please please do. Another strange symptom they have recently started feeling is incredibly hot hands! This is really got me stumped, I can see why their blood pressure has lowered (they always feel cold apart from recently when the hot hands came in), even why sexually they seem to have suddenly woken up (albeit most inappropiately!), but the uncomfortably hot hands coupled with what appears to be quite a temperature is difficult to do anything about.

    I think it is okay for me to say this, but if it isn't, please put me right; please feel free to message me if it may help. They do have some Temgesic which they were given previously for the pain -- would this help, given that in three days it will be three weeks since they last took a 10 mg slow release capsule?

    Thank you anyway, for being here and for giving me plenty to read and research for my friend!
     
  2. ~lostgurl~

    ~lostgurl~ Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Your friend cound try Immodium, I think that is what it is called, it is for diarrhoea, an over the counter product that appears to cross the Blood Brain Barrrier (BBB) as do opiates. Maybe they could use some sort of sleep aid, either over the counter or prescription for sleep. Warm baths and showers can help too.

    Hope this helps, its been awhile since I went through opiate withdrawal.
     
  3. gina.g

    gina.g Newbie

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    Thank you so much. I cannot, unfortunately, get into bathroom - landlord refuses to let them use grant to adapt it, and one major problem right now is they cannot stand their own smell, litterally makes them gag. BTW, there is no odour, they are washed & kept clean - just makes them feel so icky all the time.

    GP won't prescribe ANYTHING, but cheers for the Imodium! My friend had real bad impaction (no one bothered to really warn of the side affects), so this is a horrible but positive step ;)

    Thanks again.
     
  4. mickenator

    mickenator Titanium Member

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    I found that when they did there withdrawl the days weren't to bad it was the not being able to sleep at night that really stressed swim out. I take it that You lives in the UK and if so swiys friend could try Nightol for sleep if the Gp is unwilling to perscribe anything and You also said that there friends had some Temgesic, they could take these when things get really bad and in as little a dose as posssible as swiys friend doesn't want to swap one withdrwal for another. Hope this may help as swim knows what swiys friend is going through.
     
  5. gina.g

    gina.g Newbie

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    Yes UK, it is the night that seem to be the worst, and then the next day my friend is absolutely shattered -- all this on top of weak muscles, makes breathing hard, is yawning part of it as well? Telephoned a local organisation who have agreed to see SWIM tomorrow, just hope that friend is able to travel as sitting/laying/moving/not moving/you get the picture I'm sure is really uncomfortable for them. Also, are headaches standard as well? It just seems like every day brings something new, and I'm so grateful to you here, for being here, and for local (UK) information. The local pain clinic refused anything other than morphine, saying that my friend would end up on it anyway, so not to waste it, now my friend is petrified because they know that the future will only bring more pain, and now they know morphine does not work very well apart from making them dopey, sleepy, sex-less and all the other ill fitting dwarfs. Friend asked about fentanyl, and eventually prescription was written up but no instructions on how to cross over from slow release twice a day 100 mg to a patch. Now friend knows that there is no help anyway, they have started asking around and finally, although uncomfortable, feels more knowledgeable and less scared. Big thank you from them. If anybody knows of a good pain clinic on the south coast, don't know how specific I can be for an area, would be good to know of. Local pain clinic prescribed friend an anti-arthritic drug which contains drug used for abortions, with no counselling or warning, and after three months took themselves off it because it did nothing. Friend even discussed pregnancy with GP who forgot to warn them.
     
  6. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    Sorry, but pain clinic names and related sources cannot be discussed here. you's best bet would probably be to find a good pain management clinic and tell them the situation, and perhaps consider buprenorphine to taper down with since You has a high tolerance. Of course, if You has been riding out the withdrawals for a few days at this point, You may just want to finish the kick, as awful and miserable as it can be at the time, it will be worth it at the end. It's been a few days since the original post, how is You doing now? What course of action did You take?
     
  7. gina.g

    gina.g Newbie

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    I'm so sorry,of course you cannot give me that kind of information and I apologise for requesting it.

    I have been away, and have returned to find that my friend has been very depressed, now free from physical symptoms (a few seem to have lingered a little, but not the really uncomfortable ones), but is definitely suffering mentally and emotionally. My friend finally sought help from the local NHS drug and alcohol unit, but by the time they could make an appointment, my friend had gone through the physical withdrawal. Apparently finding a pain clinic around here that is at all progressive or forwardthinking is difficult, so my friend is very scared because pain is a very big issue still. it seems that morphine is the drug of choice for pain control, and a regardless as to whether it works or not, my friend was told that that would be what they would end up on ultimately anyway.

    Anyway, thank you so very much for your concern and input. My friend has seen some very good friends die from overdose (although their disability has precluded much integration, they had a very active life for many years and experienced and enjoyed many different drugs prior to pain necessitating usage of opiates), as well as badly maintained habits, and was reluctant to go to a drop-in centre etc because of what they had seen in the past, having seen and heard of some pretty nasty judgemental attitudes, but felt that once they had approached the local NHS recently, things might have changed slightly over the years.
     
  8. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    Unfortunately, the mental withdrawal may last for some time after the physical withdrawals end. Depression after opioid cessation can last for months in some cases, depending on how much the friend was using and for how long. You may want to talk to a doctor about the depression issues, and mention that the friend has recently detoxed from opiates. Perhaps the doctor could reccomend something that would help, other than that, staying active and socializing as much as possible is usually the best way to stave off depression and to help avoid thinking about drugs. Although morphine might be the drug of choice for pain control, if a patient does not want to use it, a good doctor would probably be able to reccomend something else...there are a variety of non-narcotic drugs that have been used to treat pain with some success.
     
  9. Dr.Jones

    Dr.Jones Newbie

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    Not the breathing part so much, but weak muscles and yawning are very much symptons of opiod withdrawl.
     
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  10. Spare Chaynge

    Spare Chaynge Palladium Member

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    I was addicted to opiates,opiods of all kinds for 4 years. Starting with oxycodone preperations combining asprin and aceta. Swim used up to 40mg of the preperations for 2 years. Then swim upgraded to 40 oc and would often take up to 160mg-200. This led to swim using 24mg of hydromorphone and 3200 mcgs of fentanyl by far the best I say. swim then used dicetylmorphine for a long time due to the avaliability of fentanyl. swim then quit I had two options subutex or methadone. Methadone cose swim around XXXXX and came in the form of 40mg of purple liquid to be swallowd. I had a fun time getting off opiates swim now had been opiate free for 1 year except when some liquid oc and morphine came around I used it once. !methadone worked for me! swim only uses psychodelics now
     
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  11. Salvinorin A

    Salvinorin A Gold Member

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    I believe that there was a study stating how DXM has opioid anti-addictive properties. I'm not positive.

    Anyways, you can get DXM in almost any cough medicine over the counter.
     
  12. Dr.Jones

    Dr.Jones Newbie

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    not anti addictive propeties. Anti tolerence building properties. And personally it never did anything to make me feel better, just made me feel a bit trippier. Not fun while wd-ing
     
  13. Salvinorin A

    Salvinorin A Gold Member

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    Oh ok. Thank you for clarifying.
     
  14. southridge

    southridge Newbie

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    the brave new world of loperimide? swam in 20mgs every 8 hours. took plenty sennacot. symptoms completely gone 72hrs out. slept last nite at increase to 50mg. make sure you have no hidden intestinal disorder. Titrate rx opiate down to 40mgs. Begin loperimide. cannibis indicated for nausea. 20mgs every 8hrs. tried to find as much loperimide info as possible. pre-market testing on opiate addicted monkeys indicated prevention of withdrawl. andidote for overdose is naltrexone. 60mg one time dose produced nausea & vomiting in opiate niave. may be toxic to pancrease at sustained high dosage. I cannot belive swim results. why didnt i swim this way years ago? does this truly mean no more hell? please be aware of your gastointestonal health & proceed with caution! having trouble posting to this site so please share this. the hell it prevents may be your own! If I do suffer complications this will be announced. good luck!(<
     
  15. Forthesevenlakes

    Forthesevenlakes Platinum Member

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    Loperamide is a great way to combat the gastrointestinal distress of coming off opiates, but I would be extremely wary about taking it in the dosages You mentioned. 20 mg? That's 10 pills...seems to be alot. I got good results with 4 mg. If You has a really high tolerance to opiates, then I could see how 20 mg might be needed, but I would advise that anyone else start much lower.
     
  16. southridge

    southridge Newbie

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    :confused: I am talking about more than beating gastrointestinal destress. He is getting an 80% reduction in symptoms. totaly alleviating the insane restlessness! only about 36 hr period of insomnia. reduction of lethargy 60%! could actually get some things done. swim ingested 50mg. loperamide in a single dose to asertain safety. produced a B.M. with sennacot. swim slept blissfully untill his small fed ex arrived. swims Rx dosage is 100mg moriphine or 150mg hydrocodone per day. he can tolerate 200mg moriphine but that is just a waste of good stuff. I like to be a hip cool happenin fool, not zonkersville. the problem is I has begun to use this excessive loperamide between rx for maintainence.I find no accurate studies as to long term effects of this. will I be ok if he continues to produce bm/with senna? Yes please be very wary. but when it comes to constipation verses the hell of withdrawl, what would you do? Is swim just a cheap date, or will this work for other swims? Swim participated in the original oxycontin test study in 97 & was supplied with the drug by purdue for three years & has had his life fall apart so many times over the hell of withdrawl. Cant help but whish he knew years ago & hopes this continues to work. the next time a swimmer faces a crisis, try it. I dont know if it will work for others but I had asertained that during short term emergencies this is safe & effective, so what have you got to lose? good luck & post if you discover any catastrophic organ damage.
     
  17. cz-one

    cz-one Silver Member

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    Jeez,if this is how my GP carried on,i'd change him and report him to the BMA!
    They seem to have no idea of how to deal with analgesia and pain control,the FIRST thing they should have done is refer your friend to a drugs clinic,and they should have then worked with the original hospital team to sort out a proper regimen for withdrawals and pain control simultaneously,in a western country like the UK in this day and age,addicts or former addicts shouldnt have to 'make do'with ineffective analgesia,especially when the pains from a boken bone!
     
  18. southridge

    southridge Newbie

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    :smoker: The states are a little different. I am alive & well & still using Loperimide (abusing) as maintainance. Been awhile since he posted. He decided to boldly go where no man has apparently gone before. I do plan to escape his cycle of opiate abuse. He has some naltrexone. This drug should only be used after cessitation of opiates for a two week period. otherwise it can induce possibly life threatening acute withdrawl syndrome. A very tiny dose will block opiate receptors about 72 hrs. A week long exposure will "reset" tolerance to almost opiate niave level & this is where a relapse can be fatal. That 100mg happy level must be cut in half. however tolerance will quickly return. I have been swimming a long time now & is ready to put it down as his life circumstance is about to change for the better$. How come they cant invent something we can take for real pain that can really be used as needed without having to take something to keep from becoming sick? Remindes me of a statement from one of Regan admin. drug Czar concerning cannibis."Marijuana makes people think in ways we dont understand". Meaning of course all altered states of conciousness are wrong or downright illegal! Peace & safety upon you all.
     
    1. 4/5,
      Good advice re acute withdrawals with naltrexone
      Aug 12, 2010
  19. buckfutter

    buckfutter Newbie

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    Gina G,

    Is buprenorphine (Suboxone, Subutex) a possibility to get where you are located? Detox/Maintenance clinics sometimes have it. Or if you have the means you may try asking someone familar with heroin use/abuse because avoiding or combating with withdrawl is something they deal with on a daily basis and should therefore be quite savvy on the subject. Buprenorphine should curb the opiate withdrawl at least to a managable degree if not miraculous considering your testimony.
     
  20. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    It never ceases to amaze me how incompetent some medical personell (sp) can be. After your friend is OK, make sure to sue the fucker.

    However, how's your friend by now? Are you still around?