Opinions - How do we win the war on drugs?

Discussion in 'Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics' started by Lunar Loops, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. Lunar Loops

    Lunar Loops Driftwood Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Yet another article on the need for change and whilst there is nothing new being said here, it is heartening to know that there are such individuals out there committed to change. This from The Glasgow Herald (http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/75541.html) :

    How do we win the war on drugs?
    [​IMG]JENNIFER CUNNINGHAM

    Jack Cole looks like a middle-aged tourist – and last week he was visiting art galleries in Florence. Yesterday, however, he was on some of Glasgow's meaner streets with a Strathclyde police officer and a camera crew. When he takes off his jacket, his T-shirt reveals in eye-catchingly large letters the slogan: "Cops say legalise drugs. Ask me why."
    Cole is a man on a mission. He spent 12 years of his 26-year career in the New Jersey state police as an undercover narcotics officer, investigating international drug-trafficking organisations, local dealers and low-level users. Now he is a spokesman for an organisation that campaigns for the legalisation of drugs. His argument is that what politicians like to call the "war
    on drugs" has been an expensive failure over the past 30 years.
    He spent his final two years posing as a fugitive drug dealer wanted for murder, while tracking members of a terrorist organisation that robbed banks; planted bombs in corporate headquarters, courts, police stations and aircraft; and ultimately murdered a police officer. "These people would have killed me if they knew who I was," he says. "But many of the people I was instrumental in getting arrested were simply users.
    "In 36 years we have made more than 37 million arrests for non-violent drug offences, yet today, drugs are cheaper, more potent and far easier to get than they were in 1970 at the beginning of this war, when I went under cover.
    Meanwhile, people continue dying on our streets while drug barons and terrorists continue to grow richer than ever before."
    He and his fellow former police officers, retired judges and prison officers who form Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (Leap), argue that most of the problems associated with drugs are the result of their illegality, in the same way that prohibition in the US caused more crime than legal alcohol.
    "When prohibition ended in the US in 1933, Al Capone and all his smuggling buddies were out of business. They were no longer killing each other to control the market. They were no longer killing cops. They were no longer killing children caught in crossfire – all the problems we have today. If we legalise drugs, we will have the same benefits, plus many more.
    The US Centers for Disease Control says 50% of all new cases of hepatitis can be traced directly to sharing needles for drug use. If drugs were legal, people would not have to share needles.
    "Under alcohol prohibition, we had bathtub gin and people would go blind or die from drinking it. If you prohibit something, there is no way to control or regulate how it is produced.
    "That is why people die of overdoses today. Nobody dies of an overdose because they shoot more and more dope in some crazy attempt to get higher and higher. The reason they die is they get what is called a hot shot, with more in the mix than they thought was there. Instead of 10% or 15% of the mixture, it turns out to be 90% and they're dead," he says.
    Cole has brought his message to Scotland at the invitation of Inspector Jim Duffy, chairman of Strathclyde Police Federation. Earlier this year, some of his 7700 members caused controversy when they called for all Class A drugs, such as heroin and cocaine, to be legalised.
    Duffy points out that legalisation is not the policy of Strathclyde Police nor of the Scottish Police Federation, but says increasing numbers of his members are frustrated that the present drugs policies are not working and want serious consideration of alternatives. "My members are complaining that as soon as they take one drug dealer off the street, he is replaced by another, even before they get him to the police station.
    "At the moment we have no control over drugs, whereas if they are legalised, we would have 75% or 80% control. It would also allow us to take a lot of money that is spent enforcing the law and put it into education and rehabilitation."
    Acknowledging that it will take "a sea change" to move from the present approach, he says that, at present, "there is not a street, town or village that is free of drugs".
    That concern is well understood by Tom Wood, chair of the Scottish Association of Alcohol and Drug Action Teams, and a former deputy chief constable of Lothian and Borders Police, but he does not support legalisation. "Policing drugs on a war footing was ill-conceived, but understandable given the context of the early 1970s. I believe we now have to take stock and consider the efficacy of the enforcement model.
    "I don't think the legalisation of drugs is practical within the foreseeable future in Scotland. Enforcement is important to send out a clear message to dealers and I think it should be continued at the level it is.
    "Yet enforcement has its limitations. We have expected too much of it and I think we have probably done as much as we can with it. We need a three-pronged strategy with enforcement, treatment and education. We could be a lot better at rehabilitation, but the most important part is education because it deals with demand rather than supply. In that regard, we have been very unsuccessful. We need cool-headed planning to set in place a long-term strategy to reduce demand before we can improve the situation overall.
    "The big problem coming over the horizon is not simply the heroin user in the sink estates.
    It is the recreational drug user who uses cocaine or other psycho-stimulants in conjunction with alcohol. We have to win the argument with every young person in this country."
    He argues that taking the crime out of drug use could be a simple solution to a complex question, but says: "I welcome debate because the lack of robust, balanced, public debate has bedevilled this whole issue. It shows a tremendous courage by the police federation to bring someone with such radical thoughts, because that is what you need to stimulate debate."
    His caveat is that Cole and his colleagues "muse about Utopia, but I have to live in the world as it is".
    Cole – and Jim Duffy's police officers – respond that current policies are not working in the real world. Says Cole: "When I give a talk in England or Scotland it is not to tell you how to run your lives, but to warn you not to follow the US down the path to destruction and disaster.
    "We have spent more than a trillion dollars on this war in 36 years and every year we continue, we dump another $69bn down that same avenue. We have a saying that you can get over addiction, but you can never get over a conviction because it is on your record for ever."
     
  2. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Excellent news find, perhaps it's something that the pet monkey's of D-F members should be thinking too.

    As Bill Hicks said, "If there is a war on drugs then the people on drugs are winning it".

    Anybody got any good suggestions about how to mobilise a stoner army?

    Free Pizza for anyone who writes his mp, congressman, senator every day for a month?

    A global online petition?
     
  3. dirk

    dirk Newbie

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    Win the war on drugs - fuck that.

    I don't want to be involved in any war that has a casualty rate like "the war on drugs" has.


    I'd rather see a peace treaty, followed by some truth and reconcilliation.
     
  4. Sky Walker

    Sky Walker Gold Member

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    Why can't there just be a day where all us tokers take to the streets, smoking it up on our way to the police station? What could they do? Not arrest us that's for sure, there isn't enough room. I don't think any country in the world has the prison space to hold it's population of cannabis smokers. Anyone with more foresight than I, tell me, if such an event could be organized what would our governments do, what could they do? Would they just begin arresting people anyway in an attempt to scare away the rest of us. America might say, ok hold on just you sit there and smoke it up, we'll have enough prisons by the end of the month so we're just gonna take a shit load of surveillance then come round ya all up once the prisons are done.

    I hate the way we are all such fucking pussy's. I have reached the point where I would fight and die for this cause, this is a war that is not going to go away by itself. Don't you feel something drastic must be done? I know I do.
     
  5. Woodman

    Woodman A very strange person. Platinum Member & Advisor

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    This is exactly the position that I support!

    Not only will the drug cartels and mindless criminal thug gang-members be put out of business, but Federal, State, and Municipal governments will be forced make massive layoffs of law enforcement personnel and social workers, revamp or discard systems of monitoring and maintaining the "War" on drugs, as well as creating new policies and institutions that oversee regulation.

    Even attorneys, from public defenders to prosecutors, stand to be affected by the change.

    Insurance policies will have to be re-written, and healthcare guidelines will also be altered.

    This will all amount to a MASSIVE bureaucratic upheaval where fortunes will change, dramatically. So you can bet that the power-brokers who currently benefit from the "War on Drugs" will fight this idea every step of the way.
     
  6. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Gold Member

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    "So you can bet that the power-brokers who currently benefit from the "War on Drugs" will fight this idea every step of the way."

    This is the bit I'm worried about. By the time the foundations of this mess start to rot, we'll all probably be dead and buried. One can only hope I suppose.
     
  7. katukulysm

    katukulysm Mercury Member

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    well what evers going to happen with the war on drugs for it finally decides to come to a head, it will happen-in my opinion...
     
  8. AntiAimer

    AntiAimer Newbie

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    Money is why we have a so-called "war on drugs". Untill people dont need money, there will always be a war.

    About the comeing out in masses, well they can't arrest us all but they can get quite abunch and fine them if not jail them. Masses apon masses in every city, every town, every country, every state would all have to come out and protest. Literally pull strikes not against there work, but against there Government\laws. Would be the only way I could see it working, everything just at a hault. Thats all Prohibition is doing anyways. Prohibition should already be illegal since Alcohol prooved it dosen't work. Why go backwords, when we can go forwards? =/

    What can you do when THE MAN is abunch of fat old retards. War on drugs? DEE DEE DEE!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2006
  9. darawk

    darawk Gold Member

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    This is why I tell people frequently about my 'interest' in drugs, and that I use them. It's amazing how uncommon a negative reaction really is, especially when you're not in a group of people. If you're in a group, then people will react negatively because they don't want to look bad in front of everyone else. But the truth is that the more socially acceptable drug use becomes, the sooner it will be legalized. So I say, as long as it isn't a direct threat to your employment/freedom, tell as many people as you can about your drug use, if they react negatively, discuss it with them. You'd really be surprised how many people will just be curious about it, rather than outraged.

    I think most people have this image of all drug users as burn out morons living in their parents basement or on a street corner. And that stereotype is perpetuated because all of the 'smart' drug users tend to keep quiet about it, and it's the crack addled addict that robs a liquor store to feed his addiction that makes the nightly news, not the Cisco engineers whose designs were inspired by LSD.

    EDIT: I'd also like to say that I think most drug users have a something of a defeatist attitude towards drug legalisation. I always hear a lot of "the sheeple will never understand", or "drugs will never be legalized for such and such reasons", etc...But it isn't true. There has been a ton of progress made in recent years, and it's only going to get better as more and more people learn the facts through the internet and any other medium they can. The more people know about it, the more people they'll tell, the growth is exponential; once the facts are out of the bag, they can't be put back in. I see it as only a matter of time before drugs become legalised, and the more we believe it will happen, the shorter that time will be.
     
    1. 3/5,
      ...::: excellent, well-written post! :::...
      Sep 24, 2007
  10. AntiAimer

    AntiAimer Newbie

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    Really people need to stop being brainwashed. Funding the real criminals, it's really not a war, more so a crime against humanity. Worse then what hitler did, since it affects everyone and not just certain groups. It truely makes society worse off, prohibition truely is a failure. Theres more harm then good, it's not about protecting the people. That's a load of crap. It's about corrupting people, destorying lives innocent or not, killing people, perventing people from getting good jobs to people loseing good jobs, haveing more drug use, more kids in foster homes which makes more messed up people, makeing more crime, haveing a black market, violateing peoples rights, like there body fluids to haveing there phone tapped or haveing there house broken into based on suspicion, beyond other things. All while keeping the people ignorant and giveing certain people jobs. Which, all comes back to $. A way to have a never ending supply of funds. Makeing the illusion that the system is working. Stateing the Attorney general of the United States since he said it best, John Ashcroft, "If drugs were legal, I wouldn't have a job."

    Every drug needs to be in categories from drug strength to how much harm is done to addictiveness and so on.(Not talking about the flawed schedule system the DEA has now, there bases for each drug are barley fact. Ex. Marijuana is in the same Schedule as LSD,MDMA,Heroin beyond others{Schedule I} with the classification of being a Hallucinogen...There's a major problem there.) More research could be put into finding the facts then just saying no and ruining peoples lives by locking them up, wasteing money. Billions and billions could be finding the true facts educateing people so they can make a educated decision as they do with legal drugs, not misleading people. It wouldn't make people think, "Hey it's legal, must be safe"
    These type of people are just ignorant. No matter if it's legal or not, people will do them. People will also abuse them leading to deaths or sideffects. If it were legal, maybe slight increase in useage and maybe a decrease on how much people would use over there life. While still stopping people from doing them, since the facts would be there. Also letting people know exactly what there getting instead of guessing and just being a ginny pig. Like legal drugs there would be labels. Would be a postive impact overall. Levels of use would go up and down, eventually settling down to a constant rate. Because more and more and more people are born everyday, statistics mean nothing. Because if it's drugs or real crimes like drunk driveing or rapeing people to murdering people, these statistics they come up with are only based on people who got caught or people who willing stated in surveys or whatever that they did this or that. Alot of times, these are pulled out of there arses again trying to make a illusion.

    Really sad to see people going to jail for drugs, for longer periods of time then someone who rapes or molests a child. So the system as a whole really needs to be re-written. For god's sake, people can either go to jail or pay big fines for trying to kill themselfs.....WHO IS THIS HELPING? This same person will really want to die after that and instead of just attempting and failing they will die. While there family has to pay up in more ways then just $. This has to be stopped, if there were a hell, all these f*#kers would be burning there and makeing them pay for screwing other peoples lives up. Once certain drugs become legal, people from the past should have to pay, since they made other people pay for unjust reasons. No matter if it was there job or not, they where not forced. They dont care about morals nor what's right, so why shouldn't they pay now for there crimes. They did this with hitler and his people...so it's not like it hasn't happen before. Like Smurf said before, crime against humanity. Which is the biggest crime of all, in his eyes. No matter what the law was at that time, the people they screwed can't get back there life that was taken from them.

    The people as a whole, have to step up and get there rights back. Not let them decrease day after day, before long makeing everyone the same. Society will eventually be at a hault, maybe even makeing humans extinct from there own mistakes and not from natural causes. Which is actually already happening from all the toxic waste people make, people are born with ashma because the air they're breatheing is so inpure, growing deformity, diseases from unnatural chemicals in there food supply and water, etc. All in all pathetic, I feel it's child abuse to even want to have a kid. In certain conditions. People need to start useing common sense while haveing less needs, not just thinking about themselfs. But thats a whole different topic.

    EDIT* People should watch this, has alot of good facts about this drug war. http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5527847173427564456&q=drugs
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2006
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      ...::: nice post, very expressive :::...
      Sep 24, 2007
  11. dirk

    dirk Newbie

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    Well said Darawk, I've come across this attitude many times. The people who have it are usually suffering from the impression that the world is split into an immovable "us and them".

    If they could only see how arrogant thier "I'm being oppressed, but I'm cleverer than everyone else" standpoint was, then they could perhaps start being part of the change that is going on as we speak.

    Maybe some of them don't realise the fact that it's thier own ego that is tricking them. They would rather be a succesfull fugitive from the evil empire, as opposed to just a normal member of the human race, just trying to make things better for themselves and everyone else.

    It does take a leap of faith to cross the line - good luck to those of you who are in the process of change right now - welcome.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2006
  12. Sky Walker

    Sky Walker Gold Member

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  13. AntiAimer

    AntiAimer Newbie

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    Smurf can, since thats a documentary and he know's what he said wont matter. It wont change anything and he will still have his job. They even admit how there loseing this so called "drug war." Smurf really liked that video has some good straight up facts, while includeing people who fight for something only because it's there job. They have no morals, not is this right or wrong. Like the one guy said, one of his family members made him mad so he busted them because he knew they did drugs. What a great family member, he truely loves his job. They get to use drug money without selling drugs, pretend to be drug dealers and sell fake drugs(So commit crimes,beyond others)get jewelry, cars, clothing, money, drugs, make up scenarios just to seize vaulable items, You name it they keep it and/or sell it. Also I like when he stated the informants, one being the D.A.R.E program tricking kids into telling them things so they can arrest there parents or friends who use drugs. Smurf remembers when he had to do that back in the day, the D.A.R.E. box....He made up abunch of stuff and said his teachers where useing drugs and watching porn on there computers. Also he said he smelled Marijuana plants growing all around the school and seeing teachers and students sniffing white stuff. It was pretty funny, love messing with idiots. It was anonymous, so they didn't know who wrote it and they did a search on school grounds. Pretty much giveing the students vaction time for that day. Law enforcement people or agencys as such, are truely the top brainwashed people. Also anotehr sad part about it is, once they realise and see the light, there either already out or to scared to do anything about it because they need a pay check. Haveing remorse and hopefully mentaly suffering without drugs, for the lives they have destroyed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2006
  14. Zentaurus41

    Zentaurus41 Palladium Member

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    Fighting the war on drugs is fighting the war on ignorance, most people probably think drugs are evil and anyone taking them should be locked up or shot. The truth is they don't know anything about the subject except what they have been told by the goverment . So if you really want the laws to be changed you have to target people with true honest information. Also you probably have to target the children too, though not by telling to take drugs or drugs are bad but by giving them a non biased information and tell them its there own choice.

    I dont think heading the goverment or police stright on will do much except create the same debate again and again, only when people are properly informed will there be the talks of change.
     
  15. Trebor

    Trebor Palladium Member

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    Yes, pending on their locations, for example:

    If one was in London it'd be pretty easy, place a notice in the windows of the locations stoners hang out alerting them to a mass meeting in front of the buildings of parliment. One would expect numbers to reach 20,000 plus! Likewise in Dublin. However, if one was in D.C., one could not even attempt such a thing so guerilla warefare would be the most effective approach. Enter the viewing gallerys of congress with a few stoners in suits, must be in suits and be well shaven or else alarm bells will sound in the minds of guards. Those who are let in should try their best to barricade the doors whilst singing songs of protest (My personal favourite is Bob Dylans, "Everybody Must Get Stoned).


    And about the pizza, you're Irish right? I'm in Galway so you know where to send it.
     
  16. Darksanity

    Darksanity Newbie

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    I feel the same way but hoe would we advertise such a thing? Anything advertised about illegal drugs outside the Internet isn't going to be accepted. Of course you have the right to spread lies about how drugs are bad, etc. because we live in such a corrupt society. The drug prohibition is not something that will change soon since it's almost impossible to be an activist or something like that without the risk to go to jail... If the DEA see's someone promoting drugs or trying to make people against prohobition they would probably get a cop or something search you randomly.....................
     
  17. Darksanity

    Darksanity Newbie

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    I forgot to add that even if I live in one of the most free countries (Canada), I feel like the whole humanity is living under dictatorship.
     
  18. MrG

    MrG Platinum Member & Advisor

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    I've got to say that, even though I absolutely love Amsterdam, I hate the fucking crusties who hang around the coffeeshops (white boys with dreads!?). They strike me as people who consider themselves as being radical and living outside the system when the most effective image for fighting the WoD propaganda is the clean cut middle-class toker who has the chance to show his family and friends that a few spliffs ain't gonna ruin anyone's life.

    Once that first veil can be dropped from their eyes then they will start to question the crap that they are being spoonfed about drugs.

    But if all they see are unwashed drop-outs taking bong hits and blowing a fucking didgeridoo then they will keep believing what "The Man" tells them.

    Our stoner army needs regular Joes' and Janes' *not* dole-bludging student soap-dodgers.

    :smoking:
     
  19. Zentaurus41

    Zentaurus41 Palladium Member

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    True thats why to fight the war on drugs you must stop taking them and put our selfs in a position others dare not to tread. To fight them we need to be heard and not hideing away hopeing that they might find our stash.

    No drugs = no harrastment or jail time = they pretty much cant shut us up, unless they decide to kill ya. But how far are they willing to go ?
     
  20. Darksanity

    Darksanity Newbie

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    Where would we advertise such an event?
    We need very motivated persons who can talk in front of lots of people and make itself be understood, or make a shock documentary about drug prohibition bullshit. Is there a drug prohibition shock documentary out there in the Internet wich can be downloaded??

    Something else pissing me off is the fact anti-drug events and origanisations are mostly sponsered by our own money (taxes, government). How come my money is spend for something I have hatred for?
     
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