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Dose - how much clonzepam is equal to alprazolam?

Discussion in 'Benzodiazepines' started by fatkidzonmopedz, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. fatkidzonmopedz

    fatkidzonmopedz Silver Member

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    like how many mg of clonzepam is equal to a bar of xanax? one of my friends wanted to know this.
     
  2. psychedelaholic

    psychedelaholic Donating

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    Re: how much clonzepam is equal to xanax?

    SWIM usually finds 1mg of xanax to be a bit stronger than 1mg of clonazepam but according to a table of equivalent benzo dosages they are of the same potency:
    1mg Xanax = 1mg Clonezepam = 20mg Diazepam

    But clonazepam lasts much longer at least twice as long in SWIM's experience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  3. VirtuallyEmotionless

    VirtuallyEmotionless Silver Member

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    Re: how much clonzepam is equal to xanax?

    SWIM may be wrong, but every benzodiazepine equivalent chart he has ever looked at lists 0.5mg clonazepam to be equal to 0.5mg alprazolam.


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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2010
  4. psychedelaholic

    psychedelaholic Donating

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    Re: how much clonzepam is equal to xanax?

    Yer I corrected them whilst you must of been writing your reply. Has been a while since SWIM has done any benzos, he just remembered the dosages wrongly. Although SWIM does still find 1mg of xanax to be stronger than 1mg of clonezepam.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  5. Pieces Mended

    Pieces Mended Silver Member

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    Re: how much clonzepam is equal to xanax?

    The chart you posted is (mostly) used for switching from drug to drug, giving you a reference point to avoid withdrawal. In all honesty, and take SWIM's word on this, the chart is WAY, WAY off if you're comparing single-dose perceived impact.

    SWIM would say that about 1mg Klonopin = 0.5 to 0.75mg Xanax. Of course, the Xanax has a more recreational peak but the Klonopin acts much longer.
     
  6. psychedelaholic

    psychedelaholic Donating

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    Re: how much clonzepam is equal to xanax?

    Ah I thought SWIM had remembered correctly. SWIM at first said 1mg xanax = 2mg clon but changed it upon viewing that chart thinking he had remembered the doses incorrectly as it has been a long time since SWIM has done any benzos.
     
  7. EyesOfTheWorld

    EyesOfTheWorld R.I.P.

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    Benzo equivalency charts are notoriously unreliable simply because there are so many of them and none of them say th same thing. So, I spoke to SWIM, who has extensively bioassayed both compounds and had this to say, note it is his words, not mine, so I am not self-incrimiating

    SWIM said:

    "I've been using both clonazepam and alprazolam for years now, clonazepam as my main DOC when it comes to benzos, and alprazolam when kpins are unavailable. I have found that they are basically equipotent. For example, if I'm looking to stop an anxiety attack, 2 milligrams of either will do just fine. For sleep, 5-6 milligrams of either, and to get FUBAR'd, 12-16 mg of either (when not mixing with anything else!!!!). The main differences between the two drugs are as follows.
    Clonazepam, except in the form of the strips that dissolve on one's tongue, takes a bit longer than alprazolam to take effect. The flip side of the coin is that clonazepam lasts MUCH longer. But strength-wise they are about the same. Some people tell me they prefer alprazolam for recreation, and that makes sense due to rapid onset and quick duration, but I personally prefer clonaepam, since in addition to being recreational, it is also very necessary medically for my mental state, and it's much more forgiving to skip a dose of clonazepam as the previous one will still be in the body."

    Thats what he told me to pass along. Me personally, I have never used either one except in EXACT compliance with the prescribed instructions (note to newbies: when speaking of Rx drugs, if you are discussing use EXACTLY as Rx'd, SWIM isn't needed. Just pointing this out to potential rep trolls). Were I the type to abuse my prescription, I would tell the story through the words of SWIM or a talking herpes sore.
     
  8. Dr_Janus

    Dr_Janus

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    Swim would say, from his experience :

    2mg of Clonazepam = 1mg Alprazolam in terms of anti-anxiety

    2mg of Clonazepam = ~3mg Alprazolam in terms of sedative effects.

    But this is only anecdotal evidence. Empirical sources tell him that : -

    1mg Clonazepam = 1mg Alprazolam
     
  9. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    I wouldn't use such strong words, the charts are fairly but not completely reliable, and many charts do report the same equivalence.

    However it is important to realize that comparing benzodiazepines is like comparing, say, automobiles. In general, any automobile will suffice to get you where you want to go. Depending on your needs, you might simply use public transportation (e.g. a bus) to get wherever you need to go, or you may need your own automobile. If you have a large family, an SUV or minivan might be most appropriate, if you need to be economical you might choose a hybrid or just a fuel-efficient car, if you live in a snowy area then it might be important that your vehicle has 4-wheel or all-wheel drive, and if you're going through a mid-life crisis then a corvette is a common choice.

    A dosage equivalence chart of benzodiazepines is sort of like a chart showing the gas mileage/efficiency of each vehicle. It may take more gas to get from point A to point B in a Trans Am than it would in a Prius, but an adrenaline junkie would choose the Trans Am over the Prius every time. A Miata would have quite a bit of difficulty during a snowy winter, but a Jeep would have no trouble. Just the same, diazepam might be a favorite among some people, but others enjoy lorazepam's quick-acting effects; clonazepam might be a good choice for someone who has general anxiety, but temazepam would be a better choice for someone with insomnia. Generally, any choice of benzodiazepine is going to depress the central nervous system.

    The qualitative differences between automobiles is readily apparent, but I don't think a lot of people realize that benzodiazepines have comparable qualitative differences. All benzodiazepines (except quazepam and perhaps some non-medicinal benzodiazepine analogs) bind to any GABA[sub]A[/sub] receptor that has a benzodiazepine site, of which there are two types. Type 1 of these receptors are those which contain an α[sub]1[/sub] subunit, whereas type 2 receptors contain α[sub]2[/sub], α[sub]3[/sub], or α[sub]5[/sub] subunits. GABA[sub]A[/sub] receptors are made up of 5 subunits, and when a GABA[sub]A[/sub] receptor contains any of the α subunits listed above next to a γ[sub]1=3[/sub] subunit, then a benzodiazepine can bind to that GABA[sub]A[/sub] receptor (specifically, the benzodiazepine site is the interface between the α[sub]1-3,5[/sub] and γ[sub]1-3[/sub] subunits).

    The exact function of a GABA[sub]A[/sub] receptor with a benzodiazepine site, which we will now simply call "benzodiazepine receptors", depends on the α subunit. Benzodiazepine receptors with α[sub]1[/sub] subunits seem to be responsible for the sedating or hypnotic effects of benzodiazepines. α[sub]2[/sub]-containing receptors seem to be responsible for the anticonvulsant effects, both α[sub]2[/sub] and α[sub]3[/sub] seem to contribute to anxiolytic effects, and both α[sub]1[/sub] and α[sub]5[/sub] are associated with amnesia. Different benzodiazepines have differing affinities for benzodiazepine receptors comprised of a specific α subunit; the hypnotic benzodiazepines, for example, have higher affinity for type 1 receptors, but perhaps not as much affinity (or none at all in the case of quazepam) for any of the type 2 receptors.

    So no wonder some charts report different dosage equivalence between the benzodiazepines--it depends upon the effect(s) in which you are most interested! Diazepam might be more potent with respect to triazolam when it comes to anxiolytic effects, but not so potent with respect to triazolam when it comes to hypnotic effects! Such charts often even include the nonbenzodiazepine z-drugs because they bind to benzodiazepine receptors as well (zolpidem binds selectively like quazepam, zaleplon is very selective but also bind to some type 2 receptors, while zopiclone binds unselectively like most benzodiazpeines).
     
  10. Space Numpty

    Space Numpty Palladium Member

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    If noone has noticed DF has a benzo doseage comparison table here
     
  11. gonegrowin

    gonegrowin

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    From my twins extensive personal experience with these two, they are about equal in potency. 1mg alprazolam feels exactly like 1mg clonazepam.

    BUT, clonazepam has a noticably longer half life. Xanax is pretty quick, and its definantly noticeable if one was to try and compare each one. They both cause my twin to brown/blackout at single doses of 2mg and up. He weighs about 190, very lean.
     
  12. Pieces Mended

    Pieces Mended Silver Member

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    Staples, very, very good post. I think many people lose sight of the fact that it isn't a simple #mg = #mg. SWIM can safely say that having tried seven benzos, each and every one of them has a different effect. Cannot think of two which could even be confused for each other in a blind test, once they had been taken a few times.

    The ONLY dispute I have with the chart is the Valium equivalent. It is probably the safest benzo both in terms of known effects and abuse potential, but almost nobody takes it because doctors will go from 1mg Xanax twice daily to 5mg Valium twice daily. The fact is that until it begins to accumulate, it's more like a 20mg = .5mg Xanax. However, once the drug has fully accumulated in your body after perhaps a month, I think it's closer to 5mg Valium = .5mg Xanax. In short, HUGE difference between shorter and longer acting benzos equivalents, depending on how they are taken.

    Last thing I'll say again- I've heard multiple MD's and specialists agree tables are really only useful to prevent radical changes in dose which might cause severe issues. They can be 300% off what the actually swap will end up being in the end.
     
  13. duts

    duts Newbie

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    SWIM agrees with Dr_Janus and also finds alprazolam to have a stronger effect on anxiety and to be more euphoric then clonazepam, probably about at the same ratio of 1mg alprazolam : 2mg clonazepam. SWIM doesn't find much sedation in alprazolam until exceeding 4mg, but SWIM definitely feels nicely sedated with just 2mg of clonazepam alone. As everyone else said, alprazolam's effects do fade quicker then clonazepam, but SWIM can't remember how much sooner alprazolam wore off for him.
     
  14. Dr_Janus

    Dr_Janus

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    Strangely swim finds that clonazepam gives him very little sedation, compared to diazepam or alprazolam. Even at high doses ... it's most odd. Anyway, speaking of which, swim has just taken 2mg clonazepam, 40mg of diazepam and is ready to go and play some Scramble2 on his iPod touch and go to sleep.

    Good night all.
     
  15. Stimulants

    Stimulants Gold Member

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    The equivalency chart is made mainly for developing withdrawal plans for different BZDs and makes relative comparisons against diazepam.

    They're not drop-in replacement for each-other.

    Benzodiazepines are known for their three properties. Hypnotic, anxiolytic and anti-convulsion. Some are stronger in some areas than others.

    For anxiolotyics and anti-convulsants, sedating properties are not desirable. Clonazepam is usually specified for anti-convulsant.
     
  16. Dr_Janus

    Dr_Janus

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    Very salient point, this hadn't yet been taken into account, on which of these three factors are we comparing Clonazepam and Alprazolam.

    In swim's opinion, the best for the three are as follows:

    • Anxiolytic = Alprazolam

    • Hypnotic = Alprazolam

    • Anti-convulsant = Clonazepam
     
  17. Stimulants

    Stimulants Gold Member

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    The h,a,e notes in the chart posted by VE means something by the way.

    h=hypnotic, a=anxiety, e=epileptic(anticonvulsant)

    Those indicated as hypnotics are not commonly available in the U.S., except Restoril.

    Quazepam does exist, but not common.
    One of the most potent in SWIM's opinion, flunitrazepam is not approved.
    triazolam is short acting and it is more or less substituted by zolpidem(Ambien)
     
  18. khayos

    khayos

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    look i have been on just about every benzo you can not really compare these two benzos such as 8 diaz = 1 brick clonzepam has quite a long along half life if you me rivi's i would prefer clonoze pam over xanax 2 to1 ratio