Combinations - How much quinine with codeine

Discussion in 'Codeine' started by greenery, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. greenery

    greenery Silver Member Newbie

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    Hello everyone, I have a question regarding quinine (from tonic water) and codeine.

    First off, I love codeine and use it on a regular daily base, sometimes up to three times in 24 hours. I've been doing this for about 18 months and have thankfully avoided a significant tolerance from developing by using potentiators most nights, although once every 10 days or so it's codeine by itself. The potentiators I use are promethazine, zopiclone, xanax, pregabalin, alcohol very rarely, and quinine.

    My question here is about quinine and how much of it is needed to significantly potentiate codeine. I don't have access to quinine in pill form, and therefore I drink tonic water to get the quinine into me. I understand that the mechanism of quinine is that it induces the CYP2D6 enzyme, which is responsible for the metabolism of codeine into morphine, and by inducing this enzyme more of a codeine dose gets converted by the body into morphine, hence an even nicer opiate bliss! I've personally tried this combo many times and find that although the high was more pronounced, it was only a little bit better.

    What I do is drink a litre of tonic water throughout my codeine session, but maybe a litre is not enough and that's why it doesnt potentiate the codeine much?? I would like to know from the rest of you guys if drinking 2 litres would potentiate codeine more? Or even 3 litres? I'm assuming that the more tonic water I drink the more CYP2D6 gets induced and the more it would then potentiate codeine by metabolising more into morphine, but I could be wrong about that?

    Basically, how much tonic water would I need to drink for a full 100% morphine conversion? I can't say how much quinine I take in milligrams cos it doesnt list the quinine content on the bottle. But if it's of any help, the brand of tonic water I drink is "Schweppes" that's the most common one in my country (Ireland).
     
  2. greenery

    greenery Silver Member Newbie

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    Also does anybody know how much mg of quinine a bottle of tonic water contains?
     
  3. 3-methylmorphine

    3-methylmorphine Silver Member

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    TCD Pharmacy student here, no amount of CYP2D6 reasonably expected to be physiologically present is going to give you 100% Codeine -> Morphine conversion.

    CYP2D6 is genetically controlled, meaning, your genetics are a larger factor than the use of potentiators. As Irish people, we usually have about a 20% conversion rate of codeine to morphine.

    More importantly, however, studies such as Donovan et al. show no correlation between CYP2D6 levels and quinine intake and therefore it is probably not wise to try to potentiate using quinine.

    Remember to keep your usage safe. Stay well!
     
  4. greenery

    greenery Silver Member Newbie

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    Oh right, but quinine although it doesn't potentiate much it deffo does something.

    Wow, 20 percent codeine to morphine conversion we're lucky to be Irish cos generally only 10% of it gets converted.

    Is there a way that I can turn my schweppes tonic water into a solid? I find the taste awful, so it would be much handier to pop it than to drink it. Is that possible though?
     
  5. greenery

    greenery Silver Member Newbie

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    So is it possible to turn all this yucky tonic water into a solid?
     
  6. DUSK1

    DUSK1 Silver Member

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    Quinine inhibits CYP2D6.

    I believe this has already been established, as I've read it here on multiple codeine potentiation threads.

    Here are just two studies supporting this, and although they're not ideal for this purpose, given the content of other threads i believe this should pretty much shut down the idea of Quinine potentiating anything that requires CYP2D6 for psychoactivity.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12703961
    -> stronger evidence http://www.jbc.org/content/280/46/38617.full

    Also:
    WebMD thinks its an inhibitor -> http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-9...tle-cyp2d6-inhibitors-tamoxifen/intrtype-drug

    It would seem had you read this thread, you may not have made a new one -> https://drugs-forum.com/threads/125105

    There are plenty of other potentiators to look into, although i do wish there was an easily available CYP2D6 inhibitor... My current favorites are Bacopa Monnieri, Fish oil (omega fatty acids), Curcumin, Red wine, and Licorice root, with dxm and loratadine/doxylamine(if i want more sedation) taken after.