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    PLEASE HELP

How often do you smoke heroin?

Discussion in 'Heroin' started by SDfool, May 18, 2017.

  1. SDfool

    SDfool Newbie

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    I don't even know where to start with this post. It's like many others I have read. Started dating my boyfriend a year and half ago, we moved in together after only dating a few months. I knew his behavior was weird. No money, disappearing for hours at a time. I don't know what it meant though and now I know.

    Heroin.

    He admitted to me a year ago he was an addict and needed help. He detoxed on his own at home and it was horrible. His behavior was still off tho. Sometimes he was still messed up. I think it was from taking xanax or other opiates. He of course always denied EVERYTHING! Well he replapsed after a few months and on Christmas I found him smoking heroin in our bathroom. He promised to get clean and pretended he wasn't using but obviously still was. I love him but can't trust anything he says. Everything seems like a lie and he can't even do a simple task like running to the gas station down the street in less than an hour. I could go on and on but I think you all get the picture and have heard the same stories before.

    A week ago he confessed again that he was using, finally. He said he wanted help this time and he was going to stop. We are trying an open door policy until he can get to the Dr to start a program. Instead of going to his truck and smoking or disappearing for hours he's doing it in our living room or bathroom. He said if he doesn't do it he will be sick. My question is it seems like he has to do it every hour or so??? I feel like he's taking advantage of this new honesty policy. Does he really need to smoke that much so he doesn't get sick or is he just getting totally doped up???

    I realize it's different for everyone considering tolerance and everything but It doesn't make sense to me that he would need to smoke that much just to keep from getting dope sick. He says it doesn't do anything to him anymore and he doesn't get high he's only doing it because he has to. I don't believe that he looks high as hell! Can't Lee his eyes open through dinner. I love him so much but I really don't trust him. How can I ever? We are fighting all the time. Looking at him is starting to make me sick because he's so messed up. I know I am not ready to leave him because I do want to believe he will stop but he's really bad and I don't know what it will take for him to get better.
     
  2. Whistles

    Whistles Newbie

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    Dope sickness is a real thing. What happens is your brain naturally produces a chemical called dopamine which are the feel good chemicals that naturally make people happy or enjoy certain things.

    Heroin chemically introduces dopamine and a lot of it which is why users experience extreme contentment and well being.

    When users are introducing the dopamine through heroin the brain stops producing on its own because if someone else was doing your job for you with no consequence to you I imagine you would stop as well.

    Dependency comes after a prolonged period of use to where a user MUST have the dopamine or else everything that the heroin has been suppressing begins to rise in a nasty way. The body is so used to being relaxed and now it's rigid. Euphoria is replaced with depression and anxiety. Restful nights of sleep become restless uncomfortable nights of insomnia for days in a row. Body temperature that has been regulated by drugs is now unregulated while the brain relearns how to regulate everything again to homeostasis.

    Your boyfriend is very much addicted. While he might be smoking more than he needs to, to stay well, he definitely needs it to stay normal.

    If I were you I would be proactive in finding him a doctor that will suboxone taper or a facility that will medically detox him with aftercare. I've used heroin for about 6 years, off and on. I've binged for months and months and also just been a weekend warrior.

    When I was in the deepest point if I had someone that enabled me I would hang on as long as possible...dont wait for him to wake up one day and decide that's it. Find him a few options and give the ultimatum.

    Hope this helps in some way.
     
  3. Louvre

    Louvre Mercury Member

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    Smoking heroin is almost always a waste. Shoot it up or snort it, at least.
     
  4. Impulse Control

    Impulse Control Silver Member

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    For the physical dependency every hour is probably more than he needs. I wouldn't want to say that's definitely the case as there's no way to be certain there's not something different from normal either in how his body reacts or in the drug itself. But heroin, however you take it, generally lasts several hours. I find it wears off faster if I smoke it than when I inject, but it's still about 4 hours.

    The mental/emotional side of addiction may be more demanding though. I think people often think of mental addiction as just a lack of willpower, but its not as simple as just wanting to get high. Heroin is very mentally addictive - I started out using it recreationally and knew it was extremely addictive (and I was already addicted to amphetamine so it's not as if I was low risk myself). I set myself rules about taking breaks between uses to avoid physical dependency. Went about how you'd expect - around the third or fourth time I took it I was thinking about it every day, I didnt have cravings so I didn't worry, it just started to be the only thing I found interesting. A couple more uses and any time something happened like an argument with a friend or dealing with an abusive customer at work I'd catch myself wishing I could be on heroin because it'd be so much easier to deal with things. My amphetamine addiction had started from a week long binge where I found at the end I couldnt stop. I figured if I had more structure with heroin it couldn't get out of control - and it didn't, it just gradually made me stop caring about my reasons for not wanting to get addicted in the first place. I'd said from the start that if I felt the slightest sign of mental or physical addiction, I'd stop while it was still easy. Which brings me back to what I said about willpower... willpower, for me at least, isn't the biggest problem. It's that by the time I noticed I was getting addicted I didn't want to stop, and couldn't remember why I'd been so bothered in the first place.

    He may be lying about not feeling high, or he may not, either way, the need is likely to be about more than holding off withdrawal. Heroin still puts things into a kind of emotional "easy mode" for me even if I'm on a low dose and looking to stay clear headed. It doesn't stop me feeling sad/angry/hurt etc, it just stops the feelings being unbearable or stopping me making rational decisions. It wipes out what I think of as the background noise of my mind - I have anxiety, ptsd, and a few other issues that mean there's almost always something at the back of my mind putting me on edge, even if it's not directly distressing on a conscious level. On heroin, that's gone. He may be using it to self medicate a mental health issue, or to relax, or some other benefit he has found from it other than feeling a real high. Physically of course he shouldn't need to smoke it hourly to get those effects, but if he associates the action of smoking it with feeling happier, calmer etc then the repetitive ritual of smoking may be having the same effect.

    The thing is though, while there are ways to help with his need for heroin - whether that's treating the physical effects of withdrawal, getting therapy to resolve underlying issues, taking meds to help with anxiety or depression if needed, etc - the only way I or any addict I know has been able to stop taking anything is by wanting to. That doesn't mean the desire to stop has to just happen spontaneously (amphetamine started causing me health issues, and after things progressed to seizures and serious lapses in memory I thought about it for a few days and then stopped, I was very stubborn). The difficulty of hiding it from you long term may have been enough to make him question his priorities, there may be other reasons that are making him feel ready to stop, but its also possible that he doesn't want to at all. If that's the case he may have confessed to take control of the situation, and is now going to see how long he can get away with guilt-free use. I feel bad being suspicious about someone I don't know but honestly, it's most likely what I'd do if I was in his situation :/

    Realistically, I don't think this will stop being an issue for you for a long time, if ever. I'm not exactly the kind of person to say relationships with addicts and/or hard drug users can't work or anything like that - I'm married, and most of my friends are heavily into drugs and manage to have happy and fairly stable relationships. But it usually only works if either both people are into drugs, or if the non-drug using partner is comfortable with their partner's use and doesn't mind dealing with the difficulties that come with it. If people tolerate the situation but resent it, or a relationship only works because of lies, I don't think it really makes anyone happy. If he's genuinely committed to quitting and you are prepared to help him through it then he will need to do his fair share of the work - if he's fighting you about how often he's smoking instead of explaining why he needs so much so that you can understand the situation then he's putting it all on you to be understanding and supportive without him meeting you half way. You're definitely well within your rights to expect him to do better.
     
  5. SDfool

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    So, he saw a Dr and went on suboxone. He stayed home detoxing for 10 days and taking very little of suboxone strips just to help with the withdrawal. He was sick and moody and depressed but I was by his side. He was even being cold to me but I knew I couldn't take it personally and that mentally and physically he was going through a lot. His first day back at work was hard but he came him sober. Day 2 back at work not so good. He said he only had a beer but he was acting messed up again. His behavior has been the same the rest of the weekend and weekend. Completely on point with when he was using. There's some money not accounted for as well. He says he's taking the Kratom pills now. I found him passed out in his truck last night with tinfoil and a straw but he insists it's not heroin that he is now smoking th kratom to help with the withdrawal. I also found about 6 xanax bars in the bottle of Kratom pills. I don't know what to do or think anymore. Is it reasonable to ask someone to take a drug test or does that seem controlling? I feel like he's an addict with everything he does and he's not getting help to fix this. I feel like I am in love with a man in a doomed situation that I can't see clearly to get out of. I am not a user and I don't support this so is it always going to be a battle I am never winning. I really don't know how to walk a way from a man I love but I feel like I am hurting myself and the people they care about me by staying. This is all just horrible.
     
  6. MJRicky

    MJRicky Silver Member

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    There's no way he is "smoking Kratom". I think you should do a serious assessment of your situation and ask yourself how much longer you can put up with this. You've tried to help, now it's time to be firm.

    I've been where he is. Not smoking, but other routes of administration. He needs to hit rock bottom before he can come back up. I would suggest you either leave or make him leave. It doesn't have to be permanent. Only until he gets his shit back on track. You can either tell him it's only temporary or not.

    He needs to know that you aren't going to stand by and watch him circle the drain forever. If he never comes back then that's something you're gonna have to deal with. I cannot stress enough that you have to stick to your guns. He's probably going to deny that he's using, admit it and apologize, tell you he's going to change and beg to stay. Probably in that order. It's all bullshit. At least for now it is.

    You can even tell him to admit himself to long term inpatient rehab and you'll be there when he gets out. If he refuses you have got to get out of this situation. There's no way it gets better from here unless you make the hard choice. There's no doubt this is going to suck for both of you. But it will be best in the long run. However it plays out. Do not fold no matter what he says.

    We're all rooting for the both of you. I hope everything works out for the best.
     
  7. Whistles

    Whistles Newbie

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    It's hard to stay clean after a detox. The pull is very strong. You don't need to request a drug test. He's using. You don't smoke Kratom and Kratom does not get you high like that. I agree with the above poster 100% that's simply all you got left.
     
  8. SDfool

    SDfool Newbie

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    He said he is breaking up a capsule and smoking it because the effects are are stronger and he only has a few pills left? So this is a total lie?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2017 ---
    I am trying to add a photo to this thread but it's not working?
     
  9. MJRicky

    MJRicky Silver Member

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    One simply does not smoke Kratom. I use Kratom on a daily basis and wouldn't even consider it. Not to mention, it doesn't get you high if you need it for withdrawal symptoms. But, you be the judge. Do what feels right.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2017 ---
    Here is a link to a thread about smoking Kratom.

    https://drugs-forum.com/threads/possible-to-smoke-kratom-extract-as-opium.72272/
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2017 ---
    Ok, so this had me double and triple checking to make sure smoking Kratom is not a thing. But it doesn't sound like these Kratom smokers are getting a dope high. You would be able to tell the difference.

    You should get him on this site (steer him away from this thread of course). There's a "Recovery & Addiction" forum section. Maybe a little bit of conversing with people there and he could finally find his own reasons to get clean.
     
  10. SDfool

    SDfool Newbie

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    So I left tonight. He scared me. He went and stole money from my account. He would never physically harm me but was shoving me around and throwing my things. I had to leave. His boss, parents and me were the people trying to help him to get sober. I was scared he was going to harm himself so I had a conversation with his dad and boss tonight about what happened and what is going on. Well, they both told him and now he hates me. He said he can never trust ME again because of what I did and he is moving out. I am now the devil that can't be trusted when I all ever wanted to do was help him. My heart is shattered into a million pieces.
     
  11. MMTinCT

    MMTinCT Silver Member

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    Hey SDfool...the problem is that it is impossible to help an addict until they truly want to get clean. Until then, they simply want you to enable them. He could have a looong way to go before he hits his personal rock bottom and decides he wants to be clean because he is sick of living like that. That is NOT a ride you want to take with him, trust me. For someone who is not an addict, you seem to have a pretty good insight into the mind of an addict. I have seen people in such heavy denial that they can look past the most obvious evidence that their partner is using.
     
  12. Impulse Control

    Impulse Control Silver Member

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    I'm so sorry to hear you had to go through such a horrible messy breakup, but relieved that you left. I've got no issue with people using heroin (obviously ;)) but the way he has treated you, lying from day 1 & exploiting your kindness, is awful. I don't think being an addict makes someone a bad person, but there are plenty of bad people who are addicts and use it as an excuse to abuse people close to them, and it sounds like that's where things were headed. You sound like an incredibly compassionate and understanding person and you deserve much much better. You have every right to set the boundary that you don't want to be in a relationship with someone who uses drugs if that's what's comfortable for you, you have the right to expect your partner to be honest with you, and if they fuck up you have the right to expect them to actually work on it not take out their problems on you.

    I'd be pretty mad if someone told my parents and boss about my drug use and personal problems, but if I'd been stealing from them and shoving them around then I'd have no right to complain. If he wanted you to keep this private he should have had 1000x more respect for your comfort and safety from the start. If he's incapable of talking to you respectfully and without resorting to physically threatening behaviour then he has no right to expect you to continue to patiently wait for him to change on his own. You did nothing wrong by speaking to other people about your concerns.

    I know from experience of leaving an abusive partner, some of the stuff he's said during arguments might start to eat at you later. You sound like you've handled this really rationally and are taking care of yourself so it might not bother you like it did me, but if you do start feeling guilty or like you didnt do enough to support and help him, find someone to talk to to help you through it. I'm saying as a married & completely unrepentant drug addict, you were 100% justified in leaving and treated him far more than fairly. If he wants to wallow in addiction then I can understand, but he's got no right to inflict that kind of chaotic life on someone who doesn't want any part in it. I know you're hurting right now but you are much better off without him and I promise it gets easier.
     
  13. SDfool

    SDfool Newbie

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    Thank you. We are still going through the breakup I guess. My parents booked me a one way flight home and I still don't want to leave him. I love him so much. I have 24 hours to cancel that ticket and i want to do bad. I guess I am an addict of sorts as well. I just don't want to leave the man I love and our home and California. The whole thing is awful and I am not handling anything very well and I keep crying. All of these people are cheering me on and telling me it's the right thing but it's making me angry. It doesn't feel right. How is leaving the person you thought was your soulmate the right thing. I know people from the outside think this is so unhealthy and they are scared for me and want me to go but this is my life. What if I didn't give him enough time to get better?
     
  14. DocSly

    DocSly Silver Member

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    Check it out, I've always had the sentiment; "If you want something done, you'll get it done."

    I was with a gal once, she knew about my usage, method and firmly established mental integrity from moment one. Everything was smooth, until she rekindled a romance with an ex. One day, I'm sitting at the desk reading and taking notes, she walks up and screams in my face " YOU'RE A HUSK OF A HUMAN!" than proceeded to spout off all of seemingly hate driven speech, which in entirety was nonsense. She couldn't say I didn't pay the rent, bills, her car payment, fuel, food or that I didn't pay attention to her enough. She really didn't have any ground to stand on to back up her sentiments. I put my pen down, turned in the chair to fully face her direction and asked " If this is really how you feel about me, why did you let this relationship evolve into the point that I developed a strong love for you? Why did you bother saying I love you this morning if this was on your agenda?" Her eyes went blank along with her expression. She came back with "Fuck you junkie! Useless junkie! I hope that needle kills you! Tweaker!"

    I never did get upset or angry about that event. She'd convinced herself that I was all the things she wished I was to make her exit. I can't change that, even if I'm absolutely the contrary. I ended up rounding up my belongings and leaving her the house (paid rent in advance for 2 months) She'd gotten ahold of me just last week matter of fact, insisting she was sorry, she didn't mean any of that, etc etc. What I'd already heard however, made her apologies that much more hollow. I'd been told soon after she left (our) house, she moved in with the ex. Well, ex got fired from his job, wouldn't get another, went onto unemployment and started sleeping around on my ex. I asked her calmly "Are you still with Tom?" oh no no! We are through! "Where are you staying at these days?" Oh... his house... "I see, hows that dynamic?" Well we still share a bed > etc etc.

    Basically you get the jist I hope. You either love someone completely, or you never did at all. . Your fella is certainly in a bad way. He's got great support, a wonderful gal and sounds like at least some ducks in a row.
    $64 dollar question for you ma cherie; What if he doesn't want to quit? You know it's his choice, no one is putting a gun to his head (I hope you're not XD) and forcing him to do any narcotics. Granted heroin is one hell of a drug and things can go from under control to up in flames 600 yards down the way.

    My de facto point in all this text is this;
    You adore this man, you disabled your ethical threshold to try and accommodate him. He took advantage of that.
    You wait patiently for him when he'd run an errand. He'd consider his agenda more pressing than your concern.
    You helped him embark on the clinical addiction help. He didn't want to do the process and returned to using but concealing it with lies.
    You reached out to the only people you could see helping you bring him around. He was probably embarrassed and angry that you informed people that probably hadn't ever been aware of his use.

    The one thing this fella of yours lacks, even in the simplest way (just from your specifics) is the integrity to communicate his problems/feelings/thoughts with you. Even from the beginning. If an addict relapses and a partner calls them on it, they make the choice whether to lie or speak on it. The outcome of admittance is better than being deceitful.

    End of the day, I think you know what needs done. We can only offer you input and perspective.
    If you stay or go, ultimately it'll be based off your decision and yours alone.
    Reckon, if nothing else, you can take away from this thread that people do understand your pain, YOUR struggle while informing you of his.
    Those friends of yours couldn't ever understand. Them saying good riddance is asinine. I wonder if they ever ended up with an RX script for an opiate and became dependent on it, or a negligent doctor left it as a long standing prescription if they would acknowledge the irony or simply proclaim they didn't have an addiction?


    Eh, C'est la vie!

    -D.S