1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP
    Dismiss Notice

Tapering - HOW-TO: Buperenorphine (Suboxone) Quick Taper!

Discussion in 'Opiate addiction' started by YeaXTC, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. YeaXTC

    YeaXTC Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    547
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Male from U.S.A.
    Ok here's a bit of helpful information that swim would like to post RE: suboxone quick taper. He recently successfully did a quick ~2 week sub taper, with great results, and has honestly been the easiest way to come off of opiates for him so far. This is just some helpful information, and alternations to the information as pertaining to each individual swim should always be kept in mind! (Feel free to post individual stories, questions, whatever, swim is here to help and wants to help!)

    >The first day is going to take the highest dose to get swiy sorted out, swim would suggest trying to keep it as low as possible, and starting with 1-2mg and moving up in 1mg increments, depending on personal addiction length & severity. Also, be sure to wait ~24 hours before taking this first suboxone dose, for the shorter acting opiates, and even longer (3 days) if moving from methadone to suboxone, because taking the suboxone too early can cause precipitated withdrawals, which swim has read are NOT fun..!

    >Day 2, bump down 1-2 mg (this greatly depends on personal doses, and is subjective so feel free to post personal questions, and swiy will do his best to help, as he cannot offer a generalized answer to everyone because different habits have different doses) from the first day, this should keep swiy held in place (as the 2nd day seems to take less than the first, which can also do with suboxones long half life, which will be very helpful!)

    >Day 3-14 (or however long one wishes to do their quick taper) Swim would suggest 2 weeks as it's not long enough to get addicted to suboxone, and is long enough to get balanced on doses, and taper down to lower doses like .25 mg, swim would suggest going this low because it really does make it that much easier to come off of. Over the 3-14 day period the dose can be gradually moved down, in .5 increments, this is just subjective on the initial dose, and length of taper.

    Here's an example of what swim did.
    Day 1_ 2mg sublingual, 1mg snorted. Day 2-4_ 1mg snorted. Day 5-11_ .5mg snorted. Day 12-15_ .25 snorted. Day 16_ nothing at all!

    Swim found snorting the suboxone to be about x2 as efficient, so if swiy is gonna snort it, swim would suggest using half the sublingual dose. Also, he paired this with a few tokes of weed, and it provided a great synergy between the two drugs, swim honestly felt "great" when he added the bit of weed, so swim would suggest trying it, if one doesn't like it don't do it again, but if it's enjoyed (as swim and all his friends enjoyed it a LOT!) then it could also add to the success because one isn't tempted to do more and more suboxone, and to stick to the taper!

    Some hints/tips:

    _This is not a fool-proof method. It's only suggested for those who REALLY want to quit, because using half way in between/on top of the suboxone is only going to throw swiy behind, etc. Try swiy hardest to stick to the plan and ONLY use the suboxone!

    _The WDs are still going to be there, but swim has found them to be more bearable than cold turkey, etc and is just a bit of restless legs and anxiety (for swim).

    _Don't taper too quick, or too slow, keep a steady, even pace possibly 2-3 days on each lowered dose, it honestly depends on how high swiy is starting on the suboxone, feel free to post as per individual stories, etc.

    _The last 2-3 days should be on .25 mg doses, because it makes coming off a lot easier (as there isn't much of a half-life to hold swiy over on the coming off days, and also is a "closer to the jump" dose, so the WDs will also be decreased).

    >Please feel free to post any additions, questions, concerns, help for personal taper methods, anything swim can help with he will try his hardest to!! Hope this helps, and remember, there is always a light at the end of the tunnel!!:vibes:

    xo

    Jesse
     
  2. Tempus950

    Tempus950 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    34
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    30 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Sweet, this is what SWIM was trying to do, and I was wondering how well it works. Apparently well enough for SWITY. But how much opiates was SWIY using? SWIM has used Suboxone to quit opiates once before, but his habit was much lower, like 40mgs oxycodone a day at most, and the suboxone just made him feel like he was taking norcos all day. Now however, his habit is a monster, and he is wondering about how easy this is going to be, and whether suboxone can take away the withdrawals.

    And Also: When during this program did SWIY find the most withdrawal symptoms? Was it when he finally jumped off to 0mg, or was the withdrawal just gradual as he quit?
     
  3. dyingtomorrow

    dyingtomorrow Palladium Member R.I.P.

    Reputation Points:
    3,788
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,581
    Male from U.S.A.
    Good write up about the fast taper.

    SWIM would add a couple things:

    If you have a high opiate tolerance, you are probably going to still be partially sick and feel like shit for about 2 days after your first suboxone doses. It's best to just try a small amount first, like 1 - 2 mgs, to make sure it isn't going to make you sicker after you wait the 24 hours out from your last dose. If your first dose (taken right after the test dose) doesn't make you feel much better after about an hour, it's best to give it 4 - 6 hours before you try again. Trying to take more and more suboxone immediately after your first dose (after the 24 hour wait) will usually make you feel worse in SWIM's experience.

    SWIM recommends only taking it every 24 hours, and dosing a couple hours before bed. This will allow you to sleep, and deal with the anxiety and partial withdrawal come-on at night, rather than having it come on during your sleeping hours as it will if you dose in the morning.

    Also, for people with high tolerances, SWIM doesn't recommend starting off snorting suboxone. SWIM usually gives it a couple days to get accustomed to suboxone (and to make sure the other opiates are completely out of your system) before he starts snorting it, as you absorb more naloxone nasally.

    Finally, at the end, SWIM recommends switching back to sublingual for a couple days. As Jesse pointed out, it is more effective snorted, and taking your last couple .20-.25 mg crumbs sublingually (as opposed to nasally) will help drop your tolerance even lower for the final kick.

    SWIM strongly recommends clonodine for the final steps. It can make it 99% painless and insomnia free. Benzos help with sleep, although SWIM found them mostly unnecessary with clonodine. SWIM also found that adderall/ritalin can greatly help with the depression, malaise, lack of motivation, and lethargy that most people will experience for the first week after they totally kick suboxone.

    Here's a thread that is a sort of journal of SWIM's repeated painless experiences doing a fast taper with suboxone (SWIM keeps relapsing immediately after getting "clean", but the taper works nonetheless):
    http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101985

    Hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  4. Tempus950

    Tempus950 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    34
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    30 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Three separate questions.


    Dyingtommorow, why does SWIY relapse after detoxing? Does this not kill the craving for the drug? I thought after Detox, all thats left are the mental cravings and the memories of the high, and that the physical need type of craving disappears? Or am I splitting craving into two separate types when its really all just the mental part? I thought the craving came from the withdrawal symptoms and was your body's way of trying to save itself the pain, and that most of that would disappear when you got through the detox.

    And as for dropping off suboxone entirely, how bad is the switch from a minute dosage, like .25mg, to none at all? Is that when the most discomfort is felt? Can that discomfort be avoided by taking .25mg everyday? SWIM really does not wish to be lethargic and unmotivated during this vacation he is taking, so if the price is to take a small amount of suboxone and deal with discomfort upon his return, he sees that as a better option. But if it is just prolonging the discomfort, rather than postponing it, then he is going to just get off it completely and save himself a potential new addiction.

    One last query: How much relief should a person expect from Suboxone after the first three days? Almost like normal? As in will a person be able to function , enjoy christmas, socializing with his family, sleep regularly? Or is that all not possible as long as he is on suboxone?


    Edit: question 4

    Dyingtommorow, or another experienced user: could you give me your opinion on how heavy a habit the following description is?

    1g of black tar heroin a day, guessing purity at around 10 - 15%, in 8 to 10 IV administrations. He is estimating that the purity is at this level due to the cost (30 a G), and the fact that since the day he started using this, he has never nodded out as he has seen other users do from different stuff, and he experiences no rush of euphoria, just a 3 to 4 minute feeling of good feelings (I'm distinguishing this from euphoria, which is what a person feels when he does Ecstasy, or a large line of cocaine) . Its a calm relaxed state he gets from a shot, even a .5g shot, that allows him to sleep and keeps him interested in everything he does for the next several hours.

    Then over the last 7 days: 24mg to 40mg of hydromorphone, used in 8mg IV shots, spaced 1 to 4 hours apart. This produces a definite rush and a calm relaxed, happy state, with a brief burst of euphoria lasting a couple minutes


    Is the above description a dose that suboxone cannot completely fix? usage has been at this level for around 4 months, before that it was about 80 - 150mg of oxycodone a day, snorted or smoked sometimes on foil
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  5. dyingtomorrow

    dyingtomorrow Palladium Member R.I.P.

    Reputation Points:
    3,788
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,581
    Male from U.S.A.
    Neither methadone nor suboxone (nor being clean for months even) affect the craving for heroin in SWIM whatsoever. It's always extremely strong, and always there. However, most people SWIM has talked to find that methadone helps cravings a lot, although admittedly, the vast majority he knows or has talked to also use heroin on top of it. A much, much smaller percentage of people he's talked to about it say that suboxone helps their cravings, although he has heard people say it. SWIM thinks part of the difference may be what their usage level and length of time was before switching on. From what SWIM has seen, people who had very small tolerances before switching on to suboxone, the kind that actually get relief and feel "good" from their first dose, are much more likely to have diminished heroin cravings from it.

    The relapsing has to do with SWIM's own issue; just that being sober is a horrible feeling that he can't stand for very long before going crazy (or curing it with heroin again). It's not because of anything, SWIM had a good childhood, gave it a 10 year try with doctors and all kinds of psychiatric BS, he's just always been this way and his ability to endure his "sober" or clean mindstate after all these years is gone. Nothing is worth the feeling of being clean; hence he will always relapse after he gets money again to cure it with heroin.

    If you don't have any supplemental drugs (clonodine/valium/ADD drugs), dropping off at .25 mg will still probably leave you with some anxiety, depression, and insomnia. The physical, bodily discomfort is minimal to scarcely existent; nothing like coming off full-agonist type of opiates. Environment plays a major part too. If you are happy and entertained, you might not notice anything. Vacation might be a good place to try dropping off, and if it doesn't work, it might not be a bad idea to have some just in case. SWIM notices that at around .25 mg, you can start spacing the doses out even more; i.e. instead of every 24 hours, you might notice that you can go 48 hours before you feel "the itch." The lower you can get your dose and the longer you can go without it, obviously the better.

    SWIM can tell you his experience, and what he's seen in others. Again, people with very low tolerances will probably feel good, or even slightly "high" (in the crappy bupe sense of the word) from their first suboxone dose. The pain of switching on really depends on tolerance. With an extremely high tolerance, even 24 hours might not be long enough to wait. In SWIM's experience, shooting a couple bags of heroin a day, usually the first dose he takes after 24 hours makes him feel 30% better. Then he waits another 6-12 hours, and the next dose makes him feel another 30% better. By day 3 he usually feels physically okay, but is still extremely extremely depressed and just wanting to be dead basically. After about 4-6 days you will go back to whatever your "normal" mentality is. That's just SWIM's experience though.

    SWIM would probably throw that in the high end of "low" tolerance (of course that is subjective, just based off of what SWIM has seen in the average user). However, doing 8-10 small injections a day is "unorthodox" and probably explains why you aren't getting much out of it. It's much better to space them out to get the most feeling out of it. Ideally it would be an injection in the morning, 1-2 during the day (giving it a 6 hour space between shots) and one at night. That's what your average experienced user does to get the most out of their heroin. It also helps keep your tolerance level; repeatedly shooting up while still high is what jacks it up the worst. SWIM always kept a steady tolerance, and got extremely high off each shot, by just doing 2 or maybe 3 a day, spacing them out by at least 6 hours. Doing a bunch of small injections isn't going to give you a rush, and probably is raising your tolerance (and making potential withdrawals worse because of the timing you are acclimating yourself to) without getting a very good feeling out of it.

    The fact that you are doing a relatively low amount, and have only been on it for 4 months, means you will probably get a lot out of the suboxone. SWIM would estimate that about 8 mgs, after waiting at least 24 hours, would have you feeling relatively "good" after your first dose.
     
  6. Tempus950

    Tempus950 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    34
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    30 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    An Update on the detox with Suboxone:

    SWIm at day 5 now on suboxone, and 4000 miles away from home, which makes it just about impossible to find any sort of opiate, especially given where I'm at. I'm at 4mg of suboxone a day, but SWI've noticed towards the evening he still gets restless and stays awake for three hours or so at a stretch. This combined with jet lag makes for very little sleep. But today and yesterday, taking 4mg of suboxone made SWIM feel almost identical to how I remember Heroin feeling. SWIM would have never thought suboxone could do that. Now hes just wondering how much longer till hes back to where he was before, and can abandon the suboxone as well? Hopefully he shall be down to 2mg in another couple days, and is thinking of splitting his doses so he can sleep at night and not feel restless in the morning as well. At this point WDs from not taking suboxone early (or perhaps its just the early WD symptoms?) just means being restless, bored and somewhat lazy with doing anything. Like right now. But nothing at all like how a full blown Heroin withdrawal was on day 1 while he was trying to wait 24hrs to take suboxone, where he couldnt move from bed for 5 hours and his parents tripped the hell out and he just told them (most of this he cant even recollect except that it happened, it was a damn nightmare). Interestingly, one thing I've found out is that SWIM's metabolism is somewhat screwy (assumption). SWMI took the suboxone about 15 hours after doing 2gs of Heroin IV, and felt incredible relief, almost better than normal. And now taking 4mg of subs, he feels high the first half of the day, and just dreary at the end. Could it be that SWIM's metabolism is processing the opiates faster due to some reason? I would have thought a 32 hr half life would mean no discomfort at least for the rest of the day. And that SWIM was going to feel precipitated WDs for taking the suboxone so early. But that was not the case.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2014
  7. dyingtomorrow

    dyingtomorrow Palladium Member R.I.P.

    Reputation Points:
    3,788
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,581
    Male from U.S.A.
    It is extremely likely that the suboxone gave SWIY relief because the amount of heroin SWIY was doing had lower strength/"receptor activity" than the amount of suboxone SWIY took. At least, that has always been the case in everyone SWIM has seen who felt good from their first suboxone dose, and the couple times SWIM was on very low amounts of heroin and able to switch over after only 12 hours.

    That is a very good thing. Having an easy switch makes it a lot more likely someone will be able to get through it.
     
  8. Tempus950

    Tempus950 Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    34
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    30 y/o Male from U.S.A.
    Well its been 15 days since last dose of Heroin, and 3 days since last dose of Suboxone, at less than .5mg. Now I just feel cravings and boredom, and feel a horrible urge to use again. No WD symptoms though, chills are gone, sleep is normal again, i think I have slight restless legs, but I always used to do that I think. Only thing bothering me is that stuff that was interesting does not seem so anymore, and time seems to drag by, slow as hell. I find myself checking the time nonstop until when I know I can sleep again. Been drinking alcohol a bit to get rid of the boredom, but I'm not too worried about that becoming an addiction- I hate the process and the effect, except for the sleepiness it provides. I'm just wondering how much longer until I forget about the Heroin. Im on the verge of breaking my abstinence, 24 hours after returning home.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2014
  9. Cooki

    Cooki Gold Member

    Reputation Points:
    1,165
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    303
    Female from U.K.
    SwiTempus,

    Firstly, congratulations!!:applause: You've come so far. You've managed to get through this bit. swiCooki has not spent one full day without opiates for over 10 years- this hopefully shows you how strong you've been so far to get to 3 days TOTALLY DRUG FREE!!
    I've been frantically searching for some helpful threads to suggest for you- I know they're there- but I'm finding some of the ones where others are in the same situation as you- you're not alone in this.

    Cravings are part and parcel of the opiate addiction burden. It's how you learn to avoid triggers, and re-program your thinking that will get you out of it.
    Please don't forget that it's only been a short time for your brain to re-adjust- let alone your body, and this feeling you have now will not last forever if you really want to stay clean.
    Try to keep yourself occupied- cravings tend to come in bursts and if you can keep focussed on something else for a while, you have a better chance of avoiding them. Boredom is a killer, I understand, but you've done so well, and I hope you can get to the rewarding stage you deserve.
    Find something to take your mind off it- rant on here, watch a movie, take a walk..jeez..I dunno, but please know that this is nothing that can't be overcome and that you won't feel this way always. Here's a thread showing some ways other members found 'clean Time Buzz' http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97860 - might sound strange now- but there is pleasure to be had from things not related to opiates and I have every confidence you'll find them. You ask about the time frame for this feeling to go....heck...this is subjective, but swiJesse who started this thread once told me that 2 weeks after his detox he felt a natural kind of happiness descend- he'd made it.
    Please keep us updated, I've followed this thread with interest and will continue to do so now that it has another person who's come through the physical detox.
    You're doing FANTASTICALLY well and I wish you all the best, feel free to PM when boredom gets too much, ok?:vibes:

    Throw away your clock hun
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  10. ex-junkie

    ex-junkie Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    4,426
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,160
    Female from Australia
    every time swiy doesnt use heroin, he will be empowered that little bit more, motivated that little bit more, and remember those god awful withdrawals matey.

    if swiy doesnt have to be anywhere, cover the clocks. seriously though... who gives a fuck what the time is, if you dont got to be nowhere. :crazy

    also i hate to break it to you, but if you sit around doing fuck all everyday, time DOES drag like a massive sack of shit, and life IS boring. time and boredom arent there because swiy quit using heroin, and using heroin aint ever gonna change that. all it does is make it easier to sit around all day doing fuck all! ;)

    download some music production software if you dont have it already, and start fucking about with some beats.

    theres heaps of tutorials on you tube, and different music forums. if swiy is like swim, then the buzz of making music will grab you, and consume much of your time. :thumbsup:


    PS: forgive ej for assuming swiy is sitting around doing fuck all everyday, but the reality is that is what most people do during/just after a detox. its what swim did for a good year after she quit methadone. study, employment and music production have since filled her void.

    *shes been studying from home. knowing that there are deadlines keeps her arse in gear, and its nice to be able to expand your knowledge, and succeed with it. as for the music production, its always advancing and even if you do it your whole life, there will always be some other way to do something, and things you need to learn.
     
  11. dyingtomorrow

    dyingtomorrow Palladium Member R.I.P.

    Reputation Points:
    3,788
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,581
    Male from U.S.A.
    Other people might not agree with this, but the #1 thing which SWIM found that cures the post-suboxone despair is ADD/ADHD drugs. Preferably the extended release type (so you don't abuse it). It had SWIM feeling interested in things and wanting to talk to people, even in that horrible psychological dip right after coming off suboxone. SWIM believes that PAWS, especially in the early stages, includes "ADD" symptoms to the extreme. SWIM literally could not watch TV, or do the same thing for more than 10-15 minutes before he would go absolutely crazy with anxiety. SWIM had Focalin and Concerta, which he felt was better than Adderall since they felt "smoother" to him. It's better than relapsing (for most people) at least.
     
  12. ex-junkie

    ex-junkie Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    4,426
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,160
    Female from Australia
    ^thats very interesting that swiy says that. the very reason swim didnt suffer from PAWS is because she was taking ecstasy and smoking methamphetamine.

    i hate to say it, but it did her the world of good, because it changed her DOC completely, removed her desire for the needle, made her sociable, introduced her to new people and new music, and prevented a heroin relapse!

    of course she ended up abusing the methamphetamine, like alot of people post opiate addiction do with other drugs, but it was a piece of piss to stop smoking methamphetamine, compared to quitting IV methadone/heroin.

    i can totally see how adderall would help with PAWS, despite the addiction potential. if it comes to the crunch replacing a physical addiction with a psychological addiction is like taking a step down the ladder of damage control.

    its easier to bounce back from eh.
     
  13. Silvertaab

    Silvertaab Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    -54
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    35 y/o Male
    I've actually preferred the pounding-cotton-then-maybe-popping-pieces-of-suboxone until-they're-gone method, its always worked for me. If you need a good night's sleep, then maybe switch over to something like alcohol and exercise..
     
  14. edarrin

    edarrin Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    13
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Male from Canada
    SWIM have found ADHD drug Ritalin helpfull in w/d. I have tried dextroamph. and Ritalin and would choose Ritalin as it is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor and makes me feel much better.

    SWIM is currently doing a sub taper and has made it to .2mg in 16 days. Think SWIM will do .1mg tomorrow and see if SWIM can jump off there.

    During this taper when SWIM went from 1mg to .5mg (too large a drop I guess) SWIM was extremely lethargic and weak and used Ritalin to get through that.

    I may use it for a couple of days but will try to use clonidine only. I do think one needs to be drug free to get one's neurochemistry back in order, however, some of us have to function.

    I have some time off work now so I will try to use nothing but clonidine and perhaps a little weed.

    Wondering what type of w/d I can expect. DT I have done 2 7 day sub tapers and had serious PAWS/insomnia after both. Your posts give me some hope as there seems to be a lack of info regarding proper tapers and what dose to hop off at...how long to taper etc. Even if I have to split the temgesic's in half X 3 days it will be 19 days total. This is within the range of <21 days which seems to be recommended..
     
  15. Magilla

    Magilla Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    145
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Female from U.S.A.
    How would be an Rx for low-dose Clonazepam (prescribed when needed for panic attacks), Vyvanase XR for depresssion and motivation, Clonididine, all together perhaps for the PAWS then to be free from opiates for good? Have also heard something about Bupropion being used for this, it worked for smoking cigs making them taste bad but had something that felt off with anxiety forming from it although day three was pretty nice and relaxed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  16. YeaXTC

    YeaXTC Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    547
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    388
    Male from U.S.A.
    just as a check in to this thread, I haven't done opiates recreationally for 2 years at the new year (Jan 1st 2013) and yes the naturally good feeling does return, this thread is more so a how-to thread for people with no idea on how to taper/detox by use of suboxone
     
  17. Magilla

    Magilla Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    145
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Female from U.S.A.
    Congrats that is an awesome accomplishment! Good to know the naturally good feeling will return and thanks again for the thread it is a big help for people tapering off of Suboxone!
     
  18. M3

    M3 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    9
    Male from U.S.A.
    Suboxone is a miracle , just came to say thanks and checking in to post thanks ! I did it !
     
  19. subutexrex

    subutexrex Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Male from U.K.
    I'm using this thread at the mo to get me through thanks to everyone involved..fingers crossed.
     
  20. trip66

    trip66 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Male from U.S.A.
    Awesome! SWIM just jumped cold off of 8MG a day in .25 increments throughout the day. ON reserve SWIM did have 40 vicodin 7/750's but didn't tie any until about day 3.5 when swim started getting some reply "hollowo-y and restless arms and legs. Swim didn't feel a thing but it helped with them so swim could sleep. Swim took 3mg of melatonin and was fine overnight. Woke up SICK! Restless legs, Diarrhea,Took 2 Vicodin again and it helped for about 5 hours and then icky again. Swim did this for 3 days with 2 vics every 4-7 hours just too take the edge off and finally gave the remainder vicodin to the wife and we flushed it together. I'm doing it now or never we said. Well it's been TEN days with a total of 3 days complete hell and no energy. I'm finally able to leave the house but with some dragging and lots of yawning but a totally new perspective I hadn't seen in YEARS (last 3 to be exact) I wasn't on them from a doctor but the streets. BAD idea. You never know when your connection will forget you come refill time or when you won't have the money etc. etc. If swiy have a job this is BAD. SWIY could lose the job very easily because a rapid detox isn't going to look good to the boss who you keep cling in sick to. SWIM works for myself so he had the luxury of just not working. He's done. He'd never been addicted to anything ever at 44 yrs of age and thought it'd be easy, it wasn't but with will power and about 7-9 days max you'll start having energy to go back into the world. Peace and good luck.