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Inhaling - How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Discussion in 'Fentanyl' started by psychedelaholic, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. psychedelaholic

    psychedelaholic Silver Member

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    After being made aware of the lack of information about how to smoke the non-gel transdermal fentanyl patches I thought I would make this thread based on what a friend of a friend told me.

    Firstly smoking fentanyl should taken very seriously, it's very very easy to overdose on for everyone even opiate tolerant people. Overdosing can easily mean death Smoke too much and You might not wake up again. Secondly it really shouldn't be done by anyone completely inexperienced in opiates as even if it is treated with the respect it needs chances are you will puke. If it is one of the first opiates You tries then start with it sublingually or orally don't jump straight it to smoking it.

    Before You starts it is really important that You make sure they know exactly how much fentanyl is in the patch. Even if it is a 50mcg/hr patch that lasts for 72hours it doesn't mean it will have 3.6mg in it. The ones AFOAFhad contained 8.4mg despite being 50mcg patches. The package should say how much they contain. It will depend on strength and company that makes the patch.

    The first patch AFOAF got he cut into 80 even pieces. He cut the patch in half, then half, then half then half again to get 16 squares. Do this as accurately as possible using a ruler if necessary Then cut each of those into 5. Its hard to get them perfectly the same size but not too hard to get them close enough. Each square will then contain 100ug. (Adjust this depending on total amount of fentanyl in patch, see below)

    AFOAF started by chewing a single square to see how much it effected him. 100ug is equivalent to 10mg of morphine. However bioavailability is 50% sublingually so effects should be akin to 5mg of morphine. AFOAF found 400ug chewed for 10mins to effect him nicely however tolerance soon goes up.

    Once he knew how his body reacted to it he started to smoke it:
    Make a spoon out of foil, cure the foil then stick a square (AFOAF started back at 100ug) sticky side down in the bowl. Lightly heat the bowl underneath and inhale the white fumes with a paper/foil/whatever tube. Doing this does lead to some fumes from the plastic of the patch being inhaled. AFOAF never experienced any problems from this, no cough or harsh smoke but it is possible to stick the patch to the foil, heat it to transfer the fent to the foil, then peal off the patch and reheat the residue.

    If the square is left on the patch it will eventually shrivel up and turn brown once spent. Effects kick in extremely quickly, in under 10seconds much like smoking herion. AFOAF started with 100ug but soon used more. 100ug was fairly weak but its always good to start small and work up. He found 250ug delivered much stronger effects. First time he did a bigger hit it almost floored him. Intense rushes, euphoria, relaxation. orgasmic body high. AFOAF has never IVed herion but he reckons this is probably the closest he could get to it.

    For him the effects are much stronger than herion but last much less time. Nausea can be an issue but he found the usual anti-emetics like weed, ginger, cyclizine etc worked pretty well. However when doing a lot there wasn't much he could do to curb the nausea. One particularly heavy session lead to him puking around 20 times. He also finds it very itchy compared to most opiates.

    Tolerance soon builds as with most opiates and it is very very morish. AFOAF would do it until it was all gone usually doing 2mg in a session.

    The key things are to be really cautious, even if You is opiate tolerant it's not worth risking starting at a bigger dose. Make sure You knows how much fentanyl is in the patch and split it up correctly. Cutting it into 100ug patches might not really be necessary. AFOAF eventually cut his into 250ug squares. Still You can simply put more small squares on the foil to increase the dose so it doesn't really matter.

    psychedelaholic added 71 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

    List of total fentanyl content for Durogesic Patches:

    12mcg/h - 5.25cm² - 2.1mg (2100mcg) total content
    25mcg/h - 10.5cm² - 4.2mg (4200mcg) total content
    50mcg/h - 21cm² - 8.4mg (8400mcg) total content
    75mcg/h - 31.5cm² - 12.6mg (12600mcg) total content
    100mcg/h - 42cm² - 16.8mg (16800mcg) total content

    EDIT: The Sandoz 25, 50, 75 and 100mcg/hr patches contain the same amount and there 12.5mcg/hr patch contains the same as the Durogesic 12mcg/hr. Not sure if they are equal in area however. They also do a 37.5mcg/hr patch containing 6.3mg in total.

    To give 100ug squares (Durogesic and Sandoz patches):
    12 or 12.5mcg/hr - Cut 1/2, the 1/2 then into 5 pieces
    25mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 5 pieces
    37.5mcg/hr (Sandoz only) - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 4 pieces
    50mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 5 pieces
    75mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 4 pieces
    100mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 5 pieces

    For 200ug squares just cut in half 1 less time than stated.

    There are other brands of patches which may have different total fentanyl contents or different mcg/hr levels. If you have any data for other brands post it in this thread.

    http://www.rxlist.com/duragesic-drug.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  2. psychedelaholic

    psychedelaholic Silver Member

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    Additional total Fentanyl contents data thanks to Petri6.

    Fentanyl Actavis and Ratiopharm:
    12mcg/h patch has the total of 2.063mg of fentanyl (Ratiopharm only)
    25mcg/h patch has the total of 4.125mg of fentanyl.
    50mcg/h patch has the total of 8.25mg of fentanyl.
    75mcg/h patch has the total of 12.375mg of fentanyl.
    100mcg/h patch has the total of 16.5mg of fentanyl.

    The same method as for the Sandoz and Durogesic patches can be applied as the total content is very close with these having a tiny bit less total Fentanyl content.

    Matrifen:
    12mcg/h patch has the total of 1.38mg of fentanyl.
    25mcg/h patch has the total of 2.75mg of fentanyl.
    50mcg/h patch has the total of 5.5mg of fentanyl.
    75mcg/h patch has the total of 8.25mg of fentanyl.
    100mcg/h patch has the total of 11mg of fentanyl.

    These have considerabley less Fentanyl content than the other patches, although still much more than is needed for 72hours continual use and more than enough to cause an overdose.

    To obtain 100ug pieces:
    12mcg/hr cut in 3 then 4 (gives 115ug)
    25mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3.
    50mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 2.
    75mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 3.
    100mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 4.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  3. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

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    I know in Europe is it traditional to use commas instead of decimal points but in this post, it makes it look like the patches have multiple grams of fent in them. IE the 75mcg/hr patch looks like it has twelve thousand+ millgrams instead of 12+ milligrams. I think it would be better to use decimal points so it would say: "75mcg/h patch has the total of 12.375 mg of fentanyl". That is the standard medical way to measure mg strength, with decimal points when needed.

    Hope that makes sense.
     
  4. Petri6

    Petri6 Titanium Member

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    Yes, that does make sense. However, it's not the standard medical way in non-English speaking countries. But since we are discussing in English, it might be better to change them to match the English standard. I just wanted to point out that it's not a universal medical standard.

    I would also like to note that the information was taken from "Fimea", which is the organisation responsible for safety of medicines in Finland. It is unlikely that the patches sold under the same brand names in different countries contain a different amount of fentanyl, but it is still a possibility (just look at Benadryl, even the active ingredient changes from one country to another). That is why, unless You is certain that the patches he has originate from Finland, You should not rely on this information alone to measure a safe dose from you's patch.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  5. RaoulDukeX

    RaoulDukeX Newbie

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    good info thanks for the read, but I will stick to chewing them over smoking plastic and adhesive. I noticed a few months ago that the patches had changed from the gel ones that he had smoked with much success to these non-gel ones.

    yea swim knows, off topic, but did they stop distributing the gel ones due to abuse rates or overdoses? swim miss his old fent patches....
     
  6. kasbeq

    kasbeq Palladium Member

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    I have never tried smoking fent patches and although the OP-s post is very easy to read and understand ,I had an additional question .

    Is the amount of fentanyl proportionally spread throughout the patch ?

    What swim means is – if you cut the patch in 100 pieces – could there be a chance that pieces differ in potency,
    if patch contains more fent towards the centre and less around its edges, or is fentanyl distributed equally all over the patch.

    E.g. if its not evenly distributed I could smoke one piece from the edge, and think hmm… I can handle a few more, and use three more from centre and overdose.
     
  7. miws

    miws Newbie

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    I know what you are talking about, how the Sand oz brands have more mg then other brands, also for some reason the sand oz brand is swims favorite, for some reason I has had trouble doing anything with other patches and only worked when used correctly. Swim likes to cut squares and put them on the gums and they have been working good this way.

    I am going to try it the method you said above just to try it and since it is the same brand I want to try even more.

    if you can help swim, I has two questions

    1) when you cut the patch, can you wear it still when it is cut or will medication be wasted or somehow leak out, yes non gel ones, I want to make sure even though it has been cut, you can still wear, swims knows from past experience from wearing it, even wearing it for 3 days then using it orally on the gums would work very very well..

    2) swim understands over time, tolerance goes up, swim can make a 100mcg patch last 5-6 day's and so on as the mcg goes down, ..ect 50mcg, 3-4 day's. I am scared to death of having to go through w/d, in theory can this work.

    say swim decides to decrease his tolerance and bring it down to almost nothing, you could do it with the squares, on the gums, not smoking it, but decrease the size each day, do about 3 times a day, but decrease the size each day, would that work until you can go from 2 a day, 1 day and when needed to be done with it. I want to go through painless w/d being able to sleep and not toss and turn and sweat, swim can wake up early in the morning with sweating and waking up and so I will take a small piece, 10 minutes later, pass out, wake up 3-4 hours later with the square still on this gum so in theory I believe this can work.


    Swim thanks you for the nice, detailed message.


    miws added 1263 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

    I want to know, needs help how to inhale... You wrote up a nice detailed how-to but I am having trouble still. I would like to try again since I am using the sand oz brand non gel, swim cut a small square and placed on the shiny side and adhered it to the foil. Swim used a toilet paper tube, foil at the bottom and taped and sealed it on, swim also cut the tube to make it shorter, swim also use plastic wrap so I could seal the top yet be able to see the patch, placed a small hole in the top, placed a tube through it and half way down.

    I tried and tried, not burning it, yet I could taste a wicked smell yet inhaled all of it, it browned in time and became smaller but never folded up on its own. should I just put it on the flat foil, shiny up and place tube slightly above, please explain how the foil should be, I feel dumb not knowing how to do it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2017
  8. traind2go

    traind2go

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    smoking is a waste in my opinion and would fuck up ur plan to "last" several days with what u have
     
  9. psychedelaholic

    psychedelaholic Silver Member

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    The fentanyl has to be spread evenly legally. They would have tight controls and strict margins of error. As it a patch was really concentrated in only half and not so much in the other and the patch was placed on the skin in a place where the more contrated part was able to absorb more easily then that could lead to overdose. The fentanyl is dissolved into a matrix eliminating any chance of uneven distribution. At most each square would only vary by +/- 10ug.

    Dude completely depends on the person. For a recreational user smoking might be the best as the strongest high is provided but the patch will get used up quicker. For someone tapering off other opiates then yer smoking would use it too quickly and subllingual or transdermal would be best.

    1) Once the patch is cut the fentanyl can not leak out if they are non gel patches. You could cut the patch in half and wear half whilst using the rest to smoke.
    2) Tapering with reducing amounts by sublingual use should work. AFOAF has used for quite a few days in a row then stopped on not gotten WDs though but eveyone is different someone else will probably know more about this than me.

    Don't understand what you mean. AFOAF simply puts it on foil then suck through a thin tube of foil, card or paper close to the patch. Another method that works well is to use a light bulb vape. Allowing the vapours to fill the bulb and then inhaling. This stops any getting lost.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2017
  10. missparkles

    missparkles If you like crazy you've come to the right place. Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Firstly afoaf, and I am "a friend of a friend" and "Someone Who Isn't Me." This is all about the self incrimination rule that we all agreed to follow when we became members of DF...from the rules.

    Now, as far as how far away from the foil your friend needs to hold it is something they'll have to work out for themselves, but usually a half to one inch flame, about an inch beneath the foil should do it. My friend usually just sticks the patch to the foil. Just remember, to begin with the smoke will be almost clear, so have a small break between inhalations. Your friend should be able to gauge how much he's getting, simply from the high that the fentanyl gives him.

    Does this help?

    Sparkles.:vibes:
     
  11. SetarcosDrol

    SetarcosDrol Newbie

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    Re: thanks for the reply..

    Oh crap, I guess I should have actually read the rules. Is there anyway to delete a post once it's posted? I just joined this forum like 20 minutes ago and that was my first post and would really prefer not to be banned from here my first 24 hours of joining forum, haha.

    Okay, well thank you a lot for actually helping me and not bashing me for being dumb like I see so much of on other forums. I joined this one because people seem to be a lot cooler and more intelligent and useful.

    But yeah, I just saw this movie literally 10 minutes ago where this guy was smoking a Transdermal patch and he cut about 1/20th of it and basically stuck it like a sticker right to the tinfoil on the "smooth" side of the tinfoil and then he folded the tinfoil like around the piece of patch to make like a... tunnel? with the piece of patch at the bottom. Then I saw him light it and hold the flame almost directly underneath and it started smoking and like bubbling I guess you could say and the smoke that came off wasn't really clear it was kinda white and cloudy.

    He had a straw in his mouth and sucked the smoke right off as it came off. He was telling this girl next to him that it tasted kinda weird and that he didn't really feel too much of anything off it but I guess that earlier in the movie he had orally taken a full 75/mcg patch like 6 hours ago so he said it is probably dumb to claim it didn't work since he was still feeling effects from that. But he doesn't have unlimited patches and he is worried that if he uses this new method with a decent amount of patch this time that it will be a waste of perfectly good Fentanyl which he said later in the movie was his absolute favorite thing in the world! :)

    So what do you think your friend feels about that part? Because the guy in the movie asked that girl next to him if smoking them is worth doing over orally ingesting and she said she didn't know.. there was also a different character in the movie that was telling him this method of putting the patch in a cup of boiling water and brushing his teeth with baking soda and something like that.. but he wasn't sure if that guy knew what he was talking about and if that was a good idea...
     
  12. missparkles

    missparkles If you like crazy you've come to the right place. Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Ok, firstly DF is quite possibly the coolest site your friend will ever, ever find. And no, we only tend to bash really dumb people who are told the rules and just refuse to follow them. And yeah, we have the coolest mods too, and I'm sure one will be along soon to delete that post your friend was talking about.

    Now, down to business...

    Smoking is possibly the second safest method of using a fentanyl patch, after sticking on your skin as its supposed to be used, so please, tell your friend to persevere with this. Now I think he needs to make himself a proper foil tooter, cos he might find that he's losing a lot of the smoke simply cos he's using a straw. Basically rip a piece of foil twice the width that he needs (roughly 8-10 inches) then fold it over so that he has a 4-5 inch in width, and about an 16-18 inches in length, piece of foil. Now tell him to get a biro or pencil and wrap the foil around this creating something very similar to a straw like shape. When he's rolled the foil around the biro/pencil and there's no more foil left, tape it in place, and then very gently remove the biro/pencil from the middle of his foil tube. And there he has a tooter. This will enable him to catch more of the smoke. Here's a post that shows it in detail, I think it'll help...

    https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=643865&postcount=43

    Now, the fentanyl patch will bubble, this is quite normal. But as it burns he'll see the plastic shrivel up, and those raised bubbles that he can see are the fentanyl. Tell him as he holds the flame beneath the foil to move it further away from the underside of the foil if the patch seems to be burning and making the patch go brown. What he's aiming to do is burn the fentanyl contained in the patch as slowly as possible, without actually burning it. But even if he does burn the patch (which he will eventually) he'll still get the fentanyl, just inhaling a lot of smoke that makes him cough, at the same time.

    It might be good to remember that people who smoke any drug never get it right the first time, it does take practice. Again, I'd advise your friend to really stick with this method of extracting the fentanyl from the patch as it is so much more safe than sticking it in his mouth. This way he can gauge how much he's getting and adjust it accordingly. I think he'll also find with the new tooter he'll have made that the extra smoke he'll now be getting (as opposed to losing most of it with a straw) will make all the difference.

    Just follow that one rule, always wait between inhalations.

    Again, I hope this helps some?

    Sparkles.:vibes:

    PS. I'll report that post for deletion...ok?:)
     
  13. SetarcosDrol

    SetarcosDrol Newbie

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    Thanks a lot guys. I don't quite understand what it is about a tube of tinfoil that makes you lose less smoke than a straw, like how do you "lose" some of the smoke or whatever because of using a straw?
     
  14. missparkles

    missparkles If you like crazy you've come to the right place. Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Basically cos the hole in the straw is too narrow to catch all of the smoke. A tooter (tube) made out of tin foil is wider, and as its usually used for smoking heroin its possible (after smoking a considerable amount) the foil can be unwound and your friend would find enough heroin coating the tinfoil (usually) to stave off WD, and sometimes there's even enough to get your friend high.

    Does that explain it more clearly, love?:)

    Sparkles.:vibes:
     
  15. SetarcosDrol

    SetarcosDrol Newbie

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    Yeah, that does explain it a lot better. Thanks a lot.

    I ended up watching the rest of the movie and the main character started smoking his Transdermal 75mcg patch. He started off using a piece about 1 cm by 1 cm and he basically got about 3 little hits off it and kinda felt something... but he was telling his girlfriend that he couldn't really tell if it was mostly placebo or the actual Fentanyl working.

    After doing about 5 more little pieces, three of them 1 cm by 1 cm and then next two pieces were 2x2, he really didn't feel much at all, especially since he had done equivalent of at least a 1/4 of patch and would have felt more by eating it. So he got frustrated and put a full 1/4 on tinfoil and smoked the whole thing, he only got about 3 to 4 hits off it, and after all was said and done he told his girlfriend that he didn't feel smoking it was a worthwhile method compared to simply putting the patch in your mouth....

    But the characters girlfriend told him that it could simply be that he has such a huge tolerance as he orally does at LEAST a 1/4 a day and a lot of the time he does a 1/2. Plus he does 120mg+ of Morphine, and takes Hydros and Oxys few times a week.

    But making his Fentanyl last from 13th to 13th of each month (the date his connect gets scripts) seemed to always be a challenge for him, this is why the character was trying to research different ways to do patches and find a better method. But I noticed that the main character really doesn't seem to think the smoking method is gonna work for him personally as he never liked smoking opiates of any kind compared to sniffing, swallowing, or shooting.

    Also, later in the movie the main character was smoking a cigarette and when he spit in the snow he noticed his spit was a little red, so he spit a few more times and realized it was blood, his girlfriend said that it was probably from smoking too much of patches in too short of a time period, but he felt it could have been that he rinsed his mouth right prior with really warm water and baking soda because of a different method he had heard about that claimed doing that before taking patches orally increased absorption etc. but he really was worried that the blood could be coming from his throat cuz of smoking the patch...
     
  16. missparkles

    missparkles If you like crazy you've come to the right place. Platinum Member & Advisor Donating Member

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    Firstly, Sparkles friend has never had an blood coming from their mouth or lungs (or anyone else for that matter) after smoking fentanyl, but please, get it checked out just in case your friend has an infection or something similar. No one has these symptoms without some (possibly minor) med condition/illness. Always best to be safe than sorry, ok?

    Secondly, fentanyl patches work best when used as they were meant to be used, stuck onto skin. And you know Sparkles friend never thought they really provided that great a high when compared to other opiates such as heroin and oxycontin. Why take the risk of causing your friend some possible harm when there are much safer (in terms of OD) drugs available?

    Sparkles.:vibes:
     
  17. DanTheFuckinMan

    DanTheFuckinMan Silver Member

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    I figured I would add the Mylan patch info. Hope it helps:


    System Components and Structure:
    The amount of fentanyl released from each system per hour is proportional to the surface​

    area (25 mcg/hr per 6.25 cm​


    2). The composition per unit area of all system sizes is identical.​

    Dose* Size Fentanyl Content

    (mcg/hr) (cm2) (mg)​

    12** 3.13 1.28

    25 6.25 2.55
    50 12.5 5.10
    75 18.75 7.65
    100 25 10.20
    *Nominal delivery rate per hour​

    **Nominal delivery rate is 12.5 mcg/hr
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2017
  18. SetarcosDrol

    SetarcosDrol Newbie

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    First of all my dog realized the blood "coming from his throat" was actually coming from his gums because he brushed them too hard following a method he read online that said brushing his gums rigorously before chewing the patch would increase absorption, although he is happy his throat is fine he feels very.. foolish that he didn't notice the difference between blood coming from his gums and blood coming from his throat, hah..

    But in regards to asking why my dog doesn't just use other opiates, everyone has that certain opiate that just "clicks" with them and works better than other types, and Fentanyl just works sooo much better than anything else for him. He has always preferred opiates that are derived from the poppy plant, like Heroin, Morphine and Fentanyl to opiates that are just completely synthetic like Oxycodone and Hydrocodone etc.

    My dog has an uncanny tolerance to opiates, like for instance he has to take at least 50-80mg of Hydrocodone and at least 30mg of Oxy to even feel ANYTHING off them.. and even more to get high. And he has put on three 100mcg Fentanyl patches and never felt anything for the 3 full days. But he can chew a 1/4 of one (Approx 12.6mg) and feel a nice small buzz, would take 60-80mg+ of Oxy to get the same feeling, personally.

    He's steadily been able to acquire 25 of the 75mcg patches a month but recently can only get 15 so he has been researching online different methods of doing them to get more efficient use, which has led to him this website and inquiring about smoking them, which he has found to not be his cup of tea at all.

    He absolutely knows his limits with opiates, especially Fentanyl (which is ridiculous to say the least, I won't even mention how much Fentanyl he has done and can handle as people usually think he is lying). He has, unfortunately, been using opiates for over 5 years and has never had an OD scare or anything like that, so he knows what he can handle and stuff.

    SetarcosDrol added 10 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

    Okay, quick note, before I get assaulted with incorrect data. I said my dog can chew a 1/4 patch (approx 12.6mg) but that is the mg for the WHOLE patch, I meant approx 4.2g, haha. Sorry.

    And I know that some people will read me saying "my dog needs at least 30mg of Oxy..etc" and be like "My dog can take 100mg blah blah" I mean that my dog will need at LEAST that to even notice them, really. But he will do 100mg to god only knows how many mg to actually get high. Just correcting some things quick because my experience with other message boards at least is that people love to correct users who post things wrong etc haha.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2011
  19. catseye

    catseye Gold Member

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    Just for the record, fentanyl is a synthetic opioid - man made and not related to the true opiates derived from poppies ie, morphine and codeine. Hydrocodone is actually a semi-synthetic opioid, "built" upon opiates and therefore having a similar chemical structure.
    Sorry to be the one who jumps in and corrects ;)
     
  20. SetarcosDrol

    SetarcosDrol Newbie

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    31 y/o from U.S.A.
    Oh, you are definitely positive? Because I remember reading a couple places that were saying that Morphine and Fentanyl were derived from poppy family while Hydro and Oxy were completely synthetic. But my dog never liked Codeine at all, even when he took very high doses, which is weird because if that is derived from poppies then I would have thought he would have liked it. But then again, if Fentanyl actually isn't derived from poppies at all then maybe there really isn't a specific preference of opiates he prefers and maybe it is something completely different that makes him like Fentanyl the most and then Heroin and then Morphine in that order. But then again, that does make sense about the Hydro because if given a choice, he would prefer a Hydro high to an Oxy high, if in similar amounts, meaning since Oxy is stronger than Hydro that if he could have 100mg of a Hydro high, to a 60mg (or whatever would be about the correct conversion of strength) Oxy high, he would prefer the Hydro. So maybe he DOES prefer poppies to synthetics but just likes Fentanyl the best because it is the strongest?