1. Dear Drugs-Forum readers: We are a small non-profit that runs one of the most read drug information & addiction help websites in the world. We serve over 4 million readers per month, and have costs like all popular websites: servers, hosting, licenses and software. To protect our independence we do not run ads. We take no government funds. We run on donations which average $25. If everyone reading this would donate $5 then this fund raiser would be done in an hour. If Drugs-Forum is useful to you, take one minute to keep it online another year by donating whatever you can today. Donations are currently not sufficient to pay our bills and keep the site up. Your help is most welcome. Thank you.
    PLEASE HELP

How YOU can help moderate the forum!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Alfa, May 7, 2017.

  1. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

    Reputation Points:
    13,016
    Messages:
    29,644
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    116 y/o from The Netherlands
    There has always been a level of crowd moderation on DF. If a member receives a lot of positive ratings, then they are automatically promoted and if they receive a lot of negative ratings then their account is limited by demotion to mercury membership or in extreme cases even banned.

    We are now taking this a step further. If content is reported (for rule breaches) by multiple members it will automatically be removed from view until a moderator reviews the content. This essentially gives members control to remove posts from the forums (or anywhere on the site) if those break the rules.

    To allow moderators to quickly assess if a post should be removed or edited, please always include a good description of the problem and the exact rule(s) broken.

    By doing so you can help the site to stay clean from abuse, trolling and a respectable environment for all of us. This is really needed & essential for the community. Keep in mind that there are just a few volunteer moderators and hundreds of thousands of members.

    Also: I will soon be working on the new trophy system and there will be a trophy for valid reports. This means that submitting valid reports will increase your status and speed up promotions. More on that later.
     
  2. Name goes here

    Name goes here Titanium Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,170
    Messages:
    1,424
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    from Massachusetts
    Excellent addiction. Does every members flagging of a post count the same or do things like member status and post count effect number reports before a post is removed?
     
  3. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

    Reputation Points:
    13,016
    Messages:
    29,644
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    116 y/o from The Netherlands
    Very good question. Account status matters. For example it only takes a few reports from titanium members and up, while it takes more reports from new members.
     
  4. Somewhere in the middle

    Somewhere in the middle The Lost One Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    540
    Messages:
    1,920
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    from Stuck in the rabbit hole.
    I wonder if there is a way we can get the rating system boosted up too, get more people rating and giving rep to both, the members skating on thin ice a way out the door faster, especially if they are of a special breed of stubborn as far as following rules and suggestions. And for the contributing members, who definitely don't seem to be getting the credit they deserve?
     
  5. DroppedYourPocket

    DroppedYourPocket Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    115
    Messages:
    277
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    29 y/o from U.S.A.
    May I ask how many silver member reports it takes to remove a post?
     
  6. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

    Reputation Points:
    13,016
    Messages:
    29,644
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    116 y/o from The Netherlands
    Currently a post will disappear with reports by 5 new members, 3 silver members, or 2 titanium members and up. Or a combination of this. But mind that this is all just a starting point. I will adjust settings according to experience.
     
  7. Herocotin

    Herocotin Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    20
    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    from United States
    Do you still need more moderators? i just joined but have experience. please email me for info.
     
  8. CrucifyRobinHood

    CrucifyRobinHood Mercury Member

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    50 y/o from Mendo County, California
    Personally I think this is a horrible idea. We're going to end up with a situation similar to what is happening on YouTube. Moderators are effectively ambassadors. They should be as diplomatic as possible in representing the interests of the site. "Unofficial moderators" have no such responsibility. Setting up a situation where a group of members can collaborate to remove content and providing incentives to do so may well cause more issues than it resolves. I might be missing something here but is there really enough "abuse" on this site to rate having what is effectively a "citizens patrol"? It's one thing to investigate reports made by users, something entirely different to validate these reports before investigation and automatically remove posts simply because there were multiple reports.
     
  9. Somewhere in the middle

    Somewhere in the middle The Lost One Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    540
    Messages:
    1,920
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    from Stuck in the rabbit hole.
    @CrucifyRobinHood

    Not trying to be mean, but yeah... you kind of are. There is always a steady flow of "newbies" pouring in in packs it seems. 99% of them do not bother to read the rules when they sign up, then about 80% proceed to do the first impulsive thing they can think of... Posting in whatever the first forum they land in (Rule # 11). Immediately followed by another 3~5 rule infractions, always this includes rule #10, and most often also includes #'s 12, 13, 15, 22, 25, 26, and 28.

    The majority of these members can often be easily redirected to what they should have done, and take advice and suggestions well. However, about 5-10% of these remaining 80% have a different set of skills, stubbornness being the most obvious, but a few come with a concerning amount of disregard and a sense of superiority that they are somehow above the rules. Among them there is the very small 1% that are just completely clueless, this type actually have a lot more potential, though I still wouldn't throw a birthday party for them in the restricted sections, they might blow something up.

    I don't understand why this phenomenon keeps happening, but I personally blame FB.

    But for real now, this is A LOT of work for @Alfa @Phungushead @Smeg and all the other mods here, who are already doing a lot for this site. It really is not too much to ask that we, as members of DF, do a little patrolling ourselves by means of rating/rep system, pointing newbies in the right direction, reporting posts/threads for infractions and illegal activity and suspicious posts that are basically trying to sell everyone fake drug cleaners or sobriety scams. They are already working hard at keeping hackers and bots out. So, I will gladly give them a hand where I can. If you really want an idea on what they would have to do in addition to their mod duties, UTFSE by typing in literally any drug name, experience, ID etc... You will most likely get page after page of threads/posts, and there might be some closed one's that will give you some examples of why this type of cooperation is important.

    Or, just look through all the threads on the meth forum.

    S*IM
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  10. CrucifyRobinHood

    CrucifyRobinHood Mercury Member

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    50 y/o from Mendo County, California
    I guess I opened myself up for that one by qualifying my question about the need for everyone on the site to become a de-facto moderator (or "one fifth" of a moderator). In my defense I've been using this site for years and only recently joined as a member. I'm pretty familiar with what goes on here. I currently moderate three livestreams, the smallest of which has 60k subscribers, the other two having more than a quarter million subs each. In other words, I see the worst of the worst on a daily basis. I run four standalone chatrooms and a YouTube (YT) livestream channel of my own (actually 6 counting this username). All told I have around 24 moderators that volunteer for me. I appreciate your response and refer you to the last sentence of my previous post. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their site, just chiming in on the subject.

    What is being proposed is a lot like the "video flagging" system on YT. As far as I know YouTube does not "automatically" take down content based on the number of flags received. Theoretically, they review each flag and respond appropriately. In fact what happens is people get butt-hurt over opinions and flag vids rather than rebutting the opinion or statement they disagree with. Often this is all the excuse YT needs to remove content it deems to be in violation of it's community guidelines (which is an ENTIRELY different can of worms and one I hope is never opened on this site).

    The difference between what is being proposed, as I understand it, and the YT system is that YT waits until they have reviewed the content and made a decision before removing the content and/or sanctioning the "offender". That system sucks and is easily abused but it's better than a guilty until proven innocent approach.

    I'm sad to say that I can guarantee removing content prior to review based solely on numbers of complaints will create more strife than it is worth. There are always people willing to volunteer as moderators and this site certainly has a deep enough pool of experienced members and eager newcomers (see above) to meet it's needs. I would volunteer myself except for being technically "new" to the site and already being a bit over-extended.

    Here's a thought that literally just occurred to me. What if Drugs Forum (DF) made OP's responsible for moderating their own threads,even to the point of removing posts? Maybe make a thorough knowledge of the rules a pre-requisite for starting a thread. Allow those who get "flagged" (have their comments removed) by a moderator to "appeal" if they strongly disagree (3 lost appeals and you're out?). Actual DF mods would only need to review the appealed flags. This MIGHT cut down of the workload of the existing mods. Having a demerit system for OP's that have too many flag appeals might prevent any possible abuse on their end. I dunno, just spitballing here. My idea may well be a trainwreck or it just might be a smoothly self regulating system needing little attention from actual moderators.

    Huge thanks to Alpha for the post and SITM for the discussion.
     
  11. detoxin momma

    detoxin momma Just A Brick In The Wall Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    2,645
    Messages:
    3,040
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    from Hiranyaloka
    you know me Alfa, always down to help clean up.

    maybe in time i could help moderate...

    hopefully, you get some volunteers with more time than i have currently, but i sure would volunteer to help DF!!
     
  12. perro-salchicha614

    perro-salchicha614 Lady of the Briar Titanium Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,035
    Messages:
    3,367
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    35 y/o from a smoke-filled den of iniquity
    I really wish I could get on board with this, but I've seen way too much cliquishness here over the years to think it's a good idea for two or three members to be able to remove a post, regardless of their status. I can see how this could easily be used to censor people who have unpopular opinions. I think the bar needs to be higher for removing a post for all member categories.

    As for the idea of OPs being able to moderate their own threads, all I know is that it would have saved a load of headaches and drama if I had been able to do this with one particular thread I created. Just my two cents.

    Ideally, this should be a "safe" place for members to talk about their addictions and how they feel about them, but the reality is that sometimes members do gang up on each other and that sometimes it has nothing to do with violating the rules or the actual quality of the posts.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  13. mess clean

    mess clean Carbon Based Member Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    1,330
    Messages:
    1,262
    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    41 y/o from United States
    @CrucifyRobinHood

    Alfa stated that multiple reports on broken *rules* in a post will make the post be removed...temporarily...for moderator review...they could be reinstated.

    I think this is a good way to prevent negative flame throwing getting way, way out of hand.

    If members abuse this function, and report posts which have broken no rules, the members should be punished for jumping on someone for no reason.

    This will require an honest look from members, and an honest review on the part of moderators.

    EDIT: @CrucifyRobinHood and @perro-salchicha614...upon having reread your posts more carefully (my mistake for not doing so at first), you make valid points.

    This idea will take fine balancing skills. If it is indeed practical. Sorry for not looking before leaping.
     
  14. perro-salchicha614

    perro-salchicha614 Lady of the Briar Titanium Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    3,035
    Messages:
    3,367
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    35 y/o from a smoke-filled den of iniquity
    My concern is that the posts that have been reported will end up languishing at the bottom of a moderator's queue for who-knows-how-long, which would effectively censor unpopular members.

    And, of course, I think we all know how easy it is to twist the rules and how much room for interpretation there is in some of them.
     
  15. Alfa

    Alfa Productive Insomniac Staff Member Administrator

    Reputation Points:
    13,016
    Messages:
    29,644
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    116 y/o from The Netherlands
    If users abuse the system then we will act upon it. A problem that we have been encountering is that serious situations of abuse or danger are not reported quickly or not at all.

    Also: it will become illegal to leave abuse and hate speech visible. Several countries are implementing laws against hate speech and fake news which have up to Euro 50 million fine. So its something we need to have reported and repeatedly reported content needs to be invisible until a moderator has approved it.
     
  16. mess clean

    mess clean Carbon Based Member Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    1,330
    Messages:
    1,262
    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    41 y/o from United States
    €50,000,000 fine?!? That's fake news!!

    Just kidding. ;)
     
  17. bamackc

    bamackc Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    25
    Messages:
    716
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    34 y/o from U.S.A.
    drugs-forum.com where everyone is a hall monitor

    There should be badges
    :p
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  18. JaneGault

    JaneGault Always Seeking Knowledge Silver Member Donating Member

    Reputation Points:
    470
    Messages:
    226
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    from Nomadic
    I think this is worth a try. Having said that, I share Perro's concern. Been on the receiving end the cliqueishness but it has all worked out. I have a habit of being too blunt that I need to curb. As long as there are penalties for infractions and members are told that they should only report clear violations I think this could be of real help to staff. Time will tell.
     
  19. CrucifyRobinHood

    CrucifyRobinHood Mercury Member

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    50 y/o from Mendo County, California
    Ok. I'm gonna need to digest this. I'm a "conservative" anarcho-capitolist in the San Francisco Bay area. I was initially concerned about the possibility of posts being removed prior to moderator review. Frankly Alpha's last post is even more troubling. I respect whatever the site chooses to do but I'm gonna have to re-asses my involvement.
     
  20. Herocotin

    Herocotin Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    20
    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    from United States
    Being serious, and can show resume if needed.