Hungry during withdrawal? Kratom or loperamide?

Discussion in 'Opiate & Opioid addiction' started by purplemolly, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Detoxing from 70mg oxycodone/day (3 years) for chronic pain. Took kratom and loperamide at hour 16....5 hours later I'm actually starving! No runs, no yawns....little hot and cold flashes, no cravings. Is this too easy? Could I be heading for hell tomorrow?
     
  2. greenilady

    greenilady Silver Member

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    I just saw your post and because I am going through the same thing right now (again) I could share my experience with kratom and loperamide.

    I am also a chronic pain person and my doctor prescribes oxycodone 120mg per month. Unfortunately I sometimes run out early and have to get through a few days without my meds. It's a horrible situation and probably why I am reading this addction/recovery section.

    In my experience loperamide does help to avoid the physical symptoms, stomach, restless legs etc, and kratom helps with anxiety even after the first 24 hours. I still don't feel good but I am not lie in bed and cannot get up sick. I haven't taken them long term so it probably be wise to taper as soon as you are feeling better.

    You did not mention your reasons for quitting. I am on the fence right now deciding whether I want to keep putting myself through this at least every other month because I run out. It is hard because I am still in pain. I read these forums and it really gets me thinking.

    Whatever your reason, I wish you all the best.
     
  3. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    I swear you went inside my head to write that post! I take the pain meds prescribed by a pain management Doc due to a MRSA infection destroying the lower 7 vertebra of my back. Most times I can make it to refill time. Sometimes, like this month, I failed due to taking extra early on. My PM Doc is very strict (which surprisingly I actually appreciate). He does a pill count and checks each month that your meds are in your urine, at what levels, and what non-prescribed meds are present. Starting Tues I will go back to my regular dose in preparation for Thurs testing and refills. After I return from vacation in May I will be testing out the internal pain pump. That way my hands will no longer be in charge of my meds. Whewww! I don't know if I always slid towards addiction, but after 3 plus years of taking them, and 5 heavy duty surgeries, I surely am addicted by now.

    I am shocked at the amount of relief I still feel on day 2. I took 12mg on loperamide and 3 capsules of kratom (not sure of the weight). Still no restless legs, no anxiety, no runs, no craving. Some yawning and body temp issues but that's it. The kratom feels very similar to oxycodone to be honest. Maybe knowing I only have to make it until Tues helps?

    Thank you so much for posting. It certainly helps to not feel totally alone doing this. My best wishes to you.

    purplemolly added 9 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

    Oh I have to add... Took 100mg of trazadone (prescribed by PM Doc) and slept 10 hours last night.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  4. I_MISS_160s

    I_MISS_160s Titanium Member

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    You Certainly could be heading towards PAWS. Or you may still even have to face Acute Withhdrawal symptoms...

    Remember, Kratom can have adverse symptoms when discontinued and also Loperamide IS AN OPIATE and will only prolong time until your actual WD's might start...

    Be causious using these .

    Stay Safe
    JJ
     
  5. rosielee

    rosielee Silver Member

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    i woulod bear in mind that stuff takes a while to work out fully of your system....so yes it probably is too early to count those golden chickens. but i am hoping it stays bearable and an easy ride for you!!! one can wish and hope cant one.

    if it was me....i would spread out my dose no matter what it takes- rather than end up short at the end of the month- as this is a horrid situation. you need stability above anything i feel.

    i would rather have bouts of untreated pain during the month but know that i wont run out of the meds..... i know its easy said than done and controlling your script can be hard...but there is nothing worse than that dreadful clucking at the end of the month

    sorry- hope you didnt mind me chipping in there.....i will step out now again

    good luckX
     
  6. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Please step in :) I wouldn't have put myself out there if I didn't want any responses. Am still going pretty good after today's dose. Will probably top it off before bed.

    I need to completely reevaluate my med taking practices obviously. I certainly have enough meds to make it through a month... Most months I'm good... Then I think addiction takes over me :(

    purplemolly added 153 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

    48hrs since last oxycodone. Took 3 more kratom capsules. No additional Imodium. Feeling surprisingly ok. First time ever taking comfort meds to assist. Tues is only 3 more days of no meds away. Hopefully PAWS won't have time to kick in. Seriously I am NOT going to do this again! Can't wait to try the pain pump in a couple of months.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  7. greenilady

    greenilady Silver Member

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    Hello again. Happy to hear you are hanging. In there. That combo does help, especially with sleep.

    I want to tell you what I am going through right now so it will deter you from running out of meds next time. I am at 49 hours right now (probably 12 hrs behind you) and I am not doing well at all. This has been my worse withdrawal yet. I really do think every time you put your body through this it rebels even harder. If I can make it through this (actually don't have a choice) I need to reevaluate my position with pain meds. I actually have to the 22nd until refill.

    Hang in there and good luck.
     
  8. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Hi Greenilady

    I'm so sorry you are having such a rough time. I usually suffer big time also.. So I truly know what you are going through. Why do we do this to ourselves? Do we not remember how bad it is each time? It is really messing with my mind.

    You're correct... I believe you are about 12 hours behind me. I am at about 60 hours right now. I haven't taken kratom or loperamide yet today, but I plan on it shortly. I will keep you in my thoughts.

    Wishing you a speedy detox. The worst should be over very soon.

    Best wishes :)
     
  9. neverfailedtofail

    neverfailedtofail Silver Member

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    I am so glad I came across this thread. I have yet to try lope for wd's. I have tried kratom and it works if I dose every 3 hours,but who can afford that?
    I'm so sorry some of you are having to go through wd. When I used to run out of my meds it was a bleak situation as you all probably know.
    Does loperamide really help with wd symptoms? I'm sure it would help with diarrea but I don't get that to bad during wd. The shitty part for me is insomnia and rls. Also some nausea and serious body temp fluctuation. Does it help other than diarrea?
    I'm in a similar situation as you all. But I have meds left but I went on a weekend vacation a short while ago and forgot my meds 6hours away. Need I say my vacation sucked. I've only ran out early on maybe two occasions. But I know how only a few days at the end of the month without meds can be hell to say the least. I have since detoxed myself using bupe and I am having no wd's anymore. I feel great but the reason I began pain management has not changed. I am in so much pain like before I started pain meds. Before I was put on opioids I was taking dangerous amounts of paracetamol,tramadol,any non narcotic. I eventually got suicidal,I couldn't take it anymore. This is what's starting to happen.
    I feel great that I'm off meds but the pain is excruciating. I don't know what to do. Try and fight pain or be handcuffed to a bottle of pills? I'm so lost.

    Anyway to you all who ran out early, I'm not judging you, but you really need to stretch them out. Wd's are terrible on the body,bad for your heart and your brain. Constand fluctuation in body temp,heart rate and blood pressure is not healthy.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated, and best of luck to you all.
     
  10. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Hi Never

    You're correct...I really need to make the meds last a whole month. Why I do this sometimes baffles me. I sympathize with your dilemma. To be totally honest, whole I don't consider myself to be suicidal, I have many times said I wish I didn't wake up tomorrow. Partly because I know I will have chronic pain the rest of my life, partly because I'm so angry that this ever happened to me ( in diagnosed MRSA infection destroyed 7 lower vertebra), and partly because I'm so sick of pain meds. I'm looking forward to testing out an internal pain pump in the next couple of months. The meds will no longer be in my hands.

    As far as loperamide and kratom, this is the first time I've tried both during withdrawals (learned about these from lurking on this forum LOL). I usually suffer rls, cold sweats, terrible diahrea, yawning, body aches and some serious pain. I took 3 times the recommended dose of loperamide and 4 capsules of kratom day 1, 2 and today. I'm seriously shocked that the only symptoms I have are sneezing and some temp control problems.

    I have meds left but because my PM Doc tests the levels of meds in my system, I need to go in on Thurs 'fully loaded' if that makes sense, so Tues I will start taking my regular dose again. He also does a pill count. Initially I was offended that he did this, now I see why!

    May I ask what your chronic pain is from?

    I'm sooooo glad to get to know you. You sound so familiar to me!

    Best wishes to you. I sincerely hope you find a way to manage your pain. Just know you're not alone :)
     
  11. greenilady

    greenilady Silver Member

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    Wow I admire your determination to get through knowing you do have pills to take. My doc is strict only that she prescribes every 30 days to the minute so I never have extras. This month was stressful for me so I took more meds than I should have. She will not up my dose which is ok. Grateful that I have any pain relief at all. When she sent me to a pain management doctor to concur with my meds he agreed on what I was taking. He even suggested adding Lyrica to the mix. I found out I was allergic, broke out in hives.

    I suffer from interstitial cystitus which is a very painful bladder disease. I have tried all the meds and treatments available for this and they were not successful. Because I'm so advanced, they referred me to the University of Washington Urology for further assessment. I have an appointment on June 24th.

    I am feeling better right now, thank goodness.

    Never, if you decide to try Kratom please do some research if you haven't already. It, in my opinion, better to find a good, reputable vendor online to purchase. Less expensive usually. Also note Kratom is becoming a little harder for us to buy (my husband loves Kratom) because of some shipping problems out of Indonesia.

    Take care and best wishes.
     
  12. neverfailedtofail

    neverfailedtofail Silver Member

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    Hey purple, thaanks for the reply. Made me feel a lot less alone in this. I really hope that your doc will try a drug delivery pump on you. I have thought about this as id love to not have to take pills all day. Other thing I've been looking into is fentanyl patches because theyrew supposed to last up to 3 days.
    I have severe pain from multiple bulging discs that are pinching nerves along with some spondylosis,fancy word for arthritis of the spine. Been going to pain kanagement for about 5 years now. Never called for early refill,no dirty ua,and pretty much been a model patient.
    Chronic pain has resulted in some bad depression as this situation seems hopeless. If I take the pain meds I better not ever forget to bring them with me away from home or I get to wd,fun stufff. And if I don't take the pain meds I won't have the wd's but the pain will be unbearable. So I'm damned if I do damned if I don't. I am currently opiate free and the pain is unbelievable. I'm talking crying and writhing in pain all night,moaning in agony. I'm sure you know how I feel.
    How did you get mrsa in the vertabraes? Sounds painful. How long have you been on the pain management treadmill. I know all about pill counts and ua's,and getting treated like a criminal. Hell my depression from this shit made me stop caring about anything. I started shootin junk so I wouldn't have to deal with the pain. Mind you I never abuse my meds because they don't get me high nor do I care to take too much tylenol. I may not have overdone my meds but the smack I can't control. I'll try to stretch a bag but can't. Its weird,I can control my oxycodone intake but not the dope.

    So you didn't have to take ridiculous dose of lope did you. I read about people taking 40-100mg at a time,fuck that. But if it'll help wds just above reccomended doses I'll try it. Do you know how long the recovery is after they implant the pump? Someone told me 6 months.
     
  13. greenilady

    greenilady Silver Member

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    Never, just reread your post and trying Kratom. My mind is a bit scattered right now. Sorry.

    Loperamide in my case helps with sleep. Everyone is different.

    Take care.
     
  14. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Wow Never and Green... You both have some serious medical conditions! It really sounds like we're all on the same boat here. I wonder if anyone can be on constant pain meds and not get addicted?

    Life with chronic pain truly sucks. I sincerely would give up my meds to be pain free...in a heartbeat!

    Never, no I didn't have to go nuts on the loperamide LOL I took 12mg each day... 4mg being the standard dose. To answer your question as to how I got MRSA... I had a minor back surgery to release the sciatic nerve on my lower left side. The surgeon failed to read my pre-op report that showed I was already infected with MRSA. When I complained of additional pain, I believe she thought I was drug seeking. After 5 months if excruciating pain, one day I bent to empty the dishwasher and CRACK broke my back in 3 places! 5 surgeries, including titatanium rods and two cages later, I am bent over like someone 90 years old. One cracked vertebra still remains outside the cage, so only water aerobics are permitted, no jarring etc. I will turn 50 this year and feel like I'm 90. I am so full of anger at the surgeon!

    As far as the recovery time for he pain pump.. You know, I never asked LOL Mainly because I guess it doesn't matter. I have been deemed permanently disabled and am collecting SSDI benefits so I'm already at home everyday. I'm sure the healing cannot be worse than the last cage surgery. The surgery was last April and literally kicked my teeth in. I sank into such a deep hole of depression.

    I am so happy to have found you both. I will spend some time reading your other posts so I can get to know you better.

    My best wishes to you both as always :)

    ( still feeling ok heading towards the end of day 3)
     
  15. neverfailedtofail

    neverfailedtofail Silver Member

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    Thanks green lady. I've read quite abit about it but always skeptical. I'll give it a try especially if it helps with sleep. Did it help you with rls , nausea, cold sweat/chills? What about the general pain throughout your bones durin wd,does it help you with that?

    neverfailedtofail added 16 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

    I don't think there is anyone who can take opioids for chronic pain without becoming physically dependant. Damn that sounds like you had some pain breaking your back,so sorry to hear that. Reason I was asking about recovery times is because I don't qualif for ssdi. I was diagnosed and sent to pain management when I was 19,I'm 24 now. My doc says I have the spine of a 50yr old man and that I'll be in pain for the rest of my LIFE... so being that I was only 19 when I had to stop working I didn't get to pay enough fica taxes to qualify for disability. So regardless of my pain I have to try and suck it up and work so I can pay my bills. Too bad its getting to the point where I physically am gonna have to quit. I'm so scared I'll end up homeless from this pain.

    That is so awesome you're on day 3 and feeling good. That gives me so much hope. I always use leftover bupe I have to detox, but feel like I'm cheating,lol. Keep up the good work and keep me posted on your prgress using the kratom and lope to detox. Very interesting combo to alleviate wd symptoms. :)

    neverfailedtofail added 4 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

    Purple feel free to direct message me anytime for question,comments, or if you just need somebody to talk to. I'm on here very frequentl as I don't have much of a life outside of work. Good day and keep it up you're doing amazing. I am truly proud of you and kinda jealous. Lol :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  16. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Wow Never, you have so much of life still in front of you. I think you're an incredibly brave guy to keep marching on. If I didn't have SSDI we would certainly have lost our home and cars. I'd heard horror stories about being denied SSDI for various reasons. I jumped through all their hoops for a year, culminating with a visit with a Doc representing them, he took one look at the scars on my back, side and front, saw all the bulging vertebra and how little I could move around.

    Do you live alone or do you have some family support? I feel very lucky to have a supportive husband. If I had been alone during these last 3 nightmare years I really can't tell you if I'd still be here. My marriage suffered terribly. I do have some positive things to look forward to. We are going to hawaii next week for 10 days and will be renewing our vows on the beach. The flights are going to bite big time but I'm going to make it through.

    I wish I could tell you whether its the kratom or loperamide that is helping me so much. I'm thinking the physical symptoms are being suppressed by the loperamide as it is actually opiate like? The mind games and tricks are, I believe, being held at bay by the kratom. I'm not going to stop one or the other to find out!

    I have a son a little older than you....he is 26. 4 years ago, while intoxicated, he fell off his skateboard hitting his head. Unfortunately, he had a massive brain bleed. The end results after 3 months of hospitalization he came home blind and with brain damage. It ripped my heart out let me tell you...anyway I digress...What I wanted I say was that he too, had not worked enough during his young life, however he did qualify for SSI benefits. I'm not sure if being blind is an automatic qualifier or not, but he does receive benefits, including Medicare insurance. On a positive note, he is currently living with my parents in CA and attending school again with the hope of transferring to a State school to complete his engineering degree. He will never be the same as before but I have to look to him for inspiration. When I sunk to my lowest of lows last year, he noticed, and said I had pulled him through the worst of his nightmare, and it was now his turn to pull me through. Sept 11 was my about face! With the help of my cousin over 6000 miles away as my 'coach', my 'rock' my son, and my amazing hubby I slowly walked back into the world.

    Soooo glad to have connected with you, even though we are just names on a screen, our back stories are so very similar. My heart goes out to both you and Green.

    Please keep posting. Best wishes to you both :)
     
  17. Bandhor

    Bandhor Silver Member

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    I'm hungry now and sick at the same time, withdrawing from fent patches, 37.5 down to 25, been two days. I read this post and it brought back memories of my pill days, 10mg oxy and oxycodone for breakthrough, always ran out before refill time, and would suffer like hell for two days or more. one time I made the mistake of asking for pills early with a leaving town excuse and the doc checked my chart and said well it look here like you've had a couple days extra for the past 4 months so Ill write it for 10 days from now. I by my lip and said your right and took the script, he said I should go to a hospital if it gets too bad as I left. I made it though. Finally I was short again and confessed up to my abuse -not the crushing and snorting part, just the overuse. And from there I went to the fentynal patch. Worked like.a dream the first year or so and then some. I also took them for 48 hrs instead of 72, and used the leftover 24 in the old patches to add to the first twelve and third 12 hour periods. This also seemed to work but I did keep upping the dose to 125mcg. Which was roughly 200 with my use of the old patches and then the sick periods started. 4-5 days of wd feelings and out of it. Then it one day good one day bad. I forced myself to stop using the old patches and that was hell. Though I was lactose intolerant and stopped drinking milk. It was just the drugs, had a metallic taste in my mouth and my emotions were raw as they can get. This stopped after a few months and thenI was at just 125 as prescribed, had wd's from these. I have been in constant withdrawal over the last year dropping to my current 25mcg of fentynal and hope to jump off that next month. There's more to this storie on here in the one other post I wrote but I would rather be kicking myself at the end of each month on Lack of oxys than have ever gone down the fentynal road.
    But that's just my experience and I am new here, sorry for the wordy response - lightheaded from the wd's.
     
  18. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Dear Bandhor

    I'm so sorry you've been going through this for so long! I have actually been on the fentanyl patches a few times after surgery. Lucky for me it was only ever 3 months or so at a time, and I always had prescribed pain pills to ease off them.

    Have you tried any of the 'comfort' meds to see if they can ease your suffering? I think I would go crazy experiencing all that you're going through. Just running out early every few months has me freaked out. Each month I tell myself you are NOT going to do that again this time. Yeah right! LOL

    After reading so many posts on this forum, its amazing how so many are in this exact situation. It sounds like you're determined to ease off the patches which makes you a very courageous person.

    My best wishes to you :)
     
  19. neverfailedtofail

    neverfailedtofail Silver Member

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    Hey purple. Unfortunately I do live alone. This is actually why I came to this forum. I became really depressed from constant agonizing pain and realy just needs someone to talk to. So glad I signed up withDF because I feel as if I've connected with some great people who are in similar situations.
    Really sorry to hear about your sons accident. Ssi I maybe can get with a lawyer but my doc says I'm only 40% disabled. He might as well tell me how much pain I'm in. I'm pretty sure that being blind,deaf, or paraplegic,ect. automatically qualifies for ssi.
    You have an amazing son. Its sounds like he really cares about his mom. Also your cousin and husband must be pretty awesome too. There's nothing better than having the support of a loving family during times when things seem bleak. Thank you purple and everyone on this forum for giving me info,answering my questions,and what not.you all may be just names on a screen but you're also hope and motivation for me. Thank you for letting me into the DF family. I don't know where id be without the support,experiences,and kind words from all of you. Before I had nobody,now it feels like I at least have somebody rootin for me. Thanks
     
  20. purplemolly

    purplemolly Newbie

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    Awww Never... You sound like an amazing young man. My hats off to you for dealing with the alone! I, too, have found incredible, caring people on this forum. People that have been or are still at a place like mine. It's comforting for me to be able to 'talk' candidly on here knowing I will not be judged. I feel a great sense of peace in this crazy pain filled world I've entered.

    Please feel free to drop me a note anytime. I haven't figured out the PM set up yet, but I surely will if I notice something in my in box :)

    I agree that it sucks a Doctor can figure out what your pain level feels like. It makes you wonder how they would function with the same amount of pain,

    Please keep your chin up. I know, believe me I really do, this road is longgg and full of potholes!