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Hydromorphone IV

Discussion in 'Hydromorphone' started by traumanurse, May 31, 2011.

  1. traumanurse

    traumanurse Newbie

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    My dog has had real bad back problems for over a year now. He is on all kinds of pain medication. He is trying to get the max out of them to. He started using cold water extraction on the Hyrdomorphone. It worked out well and was easy but you would think 8 mg should be plenty. He tryed 4 mg earlier today with little effect. After reading everything on this website i expected greater things for my dog. He tried some rails to, that was ok. But knowthing like real IV Dilaudid.

    Am i missing a step? He used this method.
    - crushed pills into fine white power.
    - added 7ml of sterile H2O to mix. added alittle heat to see it that would make it smoother. All was wellit looked great, but not very potient with 8mg?

    Feel free to comment. my dog needs help with translation. We are new here.
     
  2. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    I don't know where to find an English-to-dog translator, I hope you have one & can run the following through it for your doggie:

    I don't understand; do you mean hydrocodone (Vicodin/Norco/Lortab) or hydromorphone (Dilaudid)? Because you don't need to CWE hydromorphone; you CWE hydrocodone because it is always in a tablet combined with APAP (Tylenol), and that's bad for the liver.

    Now, did he CWE the hydromorphone (I'm gonna assume the Dilaudid, based upon the dosages mentioned) and then drink it? That's not going to make it much different than just taking the tablets as is.

    Go to the main Opiates & Opioids forum & there's a Sticky thread there called "Saving money through the potentiation of opiates" - this is a great thread, particularly for orally-ingested opioids. Which reminds me, I really need to condense the info in that thread into one post. Anyway...

    The next step would be to insufflate the Dilaudid (that's sniffing/snorting it); the step after that would be to plug it (mix crushed tablet(s) with a small amount of water, 3mL or so, & stick it up your butt - try to have a bowel movement first, if you can manage it ;)). THEN moving to IV (if ever); plugging it is gonna get you pretty close to the results of IV use, without the side effects of needle fixation, etc etc etc.

    I dunno how you measured the 7mL, but an excellent way to plug medications is to get an oral/baby/medicine syringe - extremely cheap @ the pharmacy, sometimes the pharmacist will give you one for free. I find the "turkey baster" style more comfortable & easy to use vs the "traditional syringe w/plunger" style, but both work just fine.

    Let me know if you need more info/help/whatever. :)

    ~Kailey

    ETA:by the way, DON'T HEAT YOUR DILAUDID! You can make it not work - opioids are CRAZY water-soluble anyway, they don't NEED heat. Cold or room temp water is fine. Also, hydromorphone isn't that potent when you take it orally - try crushing up 2mg (unless you KNOW you have a HUGE opioid tolerance, in which case you can start with 4mg, but I still would start with 2mg the first time) & snorting it & see if you don't get more pain relief (& some euphoria to forget about the pain a bit, hahaha). If you decide to try this, I really would start with 2mg, since when it gets processed by your enzymes in your liver when taken orally it could seem weak, but when you bypass the liver process by sniffing or plugging it, it could seem really strong. Kinda depends on how well your liver enzymes work @ processing that stuff, to know the "snorting to oral" ratios. So go low & slow. :)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  3. traumanurse

    traumanurse Newbie

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    Dog is able to do well with 8mg IV. mixes well with sterlie H20 contton filter used. some cloudy but no noted pieces. He tells me it hits strong right away due to the high quality. Even did one with Ativan 1 mg to take off the edge. Sweet. He does'nt like the night sweets he has started to get from his new higher does for his back pain. Opana IR is new for him to.plus Fentanyl 75 mcg patch q3d.

    Anyone have help to deal with not sleeping and nigh sweats.
     
  4. traumanurse

    traumanurse Newbie

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    Bad deal these night sweats. My dog real needs to pull back some. He loves the effects but he is getting sucked into the vacuum. With his chronic back pain it is a lose lose situation. When he trys to decrease what he takes withdrawls set in.
     
  5. sunsun34

    sunsun34 Silver Member

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    The night sweats are horrible. The only way I have found to sleep comfortably is to prepare two doses for plugging. I can't believe I just admitted that! Anyway, I personally use the meds from shots I tried to use but end up getting bloody before I get a good hit. I save those throughout the day and those are the two doses. I use one right before I go to bed, and then if I happen to wake up, I have one ready and waiting. Usually in sleep through until about 7am and use the second shot because I don't like to try to iv first thing in the morning. As a trauma nurse you prob don't have that problem, so just prepare what ever a normal dose would be for you iv or maybe a bit more, and you should sleep well. Those night sweats were giving my normally porcelain complexion pimples! Good luck.....the only other thing you could do is take a few extended relese hydromorphs before bed....but don't crush them up, just take as is, this will help the sleep but will make your morning hit not quite so good. That is all I can think of! Sleep well!
     
  6. Potter

    Potter Platinum Member & Advisor

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    WOAH!!! DO NOT INJECT PILLS! Pills are designed for eating, binders do not belong in your veins. Doing so is likely to cause infection, abscess, or worse.
     
  7. lowdsrtjon

    lowdsrtjon Newbie

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    SWIM takes 80m.g. of Dilaudid daily. How much would it take to get a good rush if he chooses to plug it and does it hurt to go this way. Could you please explain how to gently :-. Thanks LDJ
     
  8. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    It doesn't hurt, though it can feel 'odd' the first couple times. Try to do the plugging after you've had a poop, otherwise the fecal matter can absorb some of the water and since the opioids are in the water... ;)

    I can't recommend a dose, everyone is different. 30% of an oral dose (not your daily total, but of what you would take at one time) is usually a good starting point, though.

    You need an oral/medicine/baby syringe (it doesn't have a needle or anything), a shot glass & the opioid you want to take. Crush opioid into powder, pour in shot glass. Fill your oral syringe halfway with clean water (from the tap is fine), put in shot glass as well. Stir/mix the powder & water, then suck it back up into the oral syringe. Put a bit of some kind of lubricant (sex lube if you have it, hand lotion, vaseline, olive oil, whatever) on your anus, lay down on the floor (I used to lay in 'missionary position' to administer, then roll over onto my side), insert syringe about halfway, squirt contents into rectal area. Lay down for a few minutes (5 is fine), then you're done. Now clean up everything & make sure to clean the syringe very well with soap & water & hide it somewhere so people don't accidentally use it orally. ;)

    ~Kailey
     
  9. traumanurse

    traumanurse Newbie

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    The IV pills does well. Chrushed it very fine mix it in Sterli saline filter with sterli cotton. been doing 8 mg. i did 12 today once it hit pretty good. but i am getting the problems with sweats and pimples at night from the sweating. I wish I could find better pills. I can get what ever i want but i was told Diladid is the strogest in PO form. I have been in the business for 17 years and Always though Dilaudid was the best in PO form. Let me know anyone if they find something better in PO form. Ocy IR are not as good. Opana suck to. i keep looking thats why i found this site. My Back pain is crazy right now, it is driving me crazy with pain. They want to do another surgury too.
     
  10. SplitDecision

    SplitDecision Newbie

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    SWIM has a hypothetical question, as IVing pills is a very bad idea. After crushing and mixing with steril water, would filtering multiple times till the liquid is clear remove more fillers than a single filtering? Or would this just cause a loss of hydromorphone overall?
     
  11. AltrdPercption

    AltrdPercption Titanium Member

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    This is a good question. Filtering pills multiple times, before an IV injection is always a good idea. Your best bet would be to obtain a wheel filter. These filters can be obtained online, or at your local needle exchange. They are very cheap usually around $2-3. If you cannot get a wheel filter, your best bet is to filter the solution until it is clear. You may lose a little of the hydromorphone but it is well worth doing.
     
  12. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke Titanium Member

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    i wouldn't think that iv'ing hydromorphone would be best for pain management. as you said the initial effect or the rush is very intense but after that it doesn't do much. i would recommend taking as directed by your doctor. abusing your medicine will most likely lead to your doctor finding out, and taking away your prescriptions.

    that being said if you are going to use them other than prescribed you should try using them rectally or "plugging". this will allow you get the maximum bioavailability, if done correctly, and still last more than a couple minutes.

    coolhandluke added 6 Minutes and 34 Seconds later...

    is this adding anything to this thread? there is a warning on the header of the opiates forum with the dangers of injecting pills. injecting anything (outside a clinical setting) is dangerous, pills, heroin, cocaine, meth, swamp mud, everyone knows this, but many do so anyway despite the warnings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2011
  13. ellavader

    ellavader Silver Member

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    wat is the meaning of "PO form" ?
     
  14. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    ellvader, "PO" means "by mouth". So, taking pills they way they're supposed to be taken. ;)

    ~Kailey
     
  15. ellavader

    ellavader Silver Member

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    thx for ur reply Kailey, but for someone like me that hasnt a clue that one would be pretty hard to decipher; PO - BM (By Mouth) how does the PO come into play... u know? lol
     
  16. kailey_elise

    kailey_elise Gold Member

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    Actually, I do. :) It's latin for 'per os', which means by mouth/for oral. :)

    Most things regarding medication-taking are in latin; like if you need to take a medication 4 times a day it says 'QID' on the prescription - quarter in die - 4 times in a day.

    They still write in latin abbreviations to make sure the doctor's chicken scratch isn't misunderstood. ;)

    ~Kailey
     
  17. Tercero

    Tercero Newbie

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    As a chronic pain patient, my dog has a high tolerance to dilaudid (hydromorphone). During his last hospital stay he was on 3mg dilaudid every two hours I.V.. Anyway, once home, he again decided to try preparing 8mg pills for I.V. use, but due to the mixture never seeming "clear" enough and his lack of knowledge with self-administration of shots, he decided to rail the pills. Sure, the pain was greatly reduced, but the euphoric feeling was never achieved. My dog was just reading this and noticed the discussion of plugging. 10 minutes after plugging 4 mg of dilaudid, he is feeling great. He did not get the "rush" from I.V. administration; instead it was like a mini-rush that keeps building and building. My lucky dog gets a monthly script for 8 mg 3x daily and from now on...plugging will be the only way...The dog will leave the I.V. route to the RNs at the hospital. It has now been a half hour since plugging and my dog is still reporting feeling very relaxed and euphoric. To those reluctant to give plugging a try...just do it!..if you're that embarrassed...just don't tell anyone and enjoy! Peace!
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  18. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Titanium Member

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    Hydromorphone has a very low oral bio-availability (IOW, the amount of drug that reaches the blood stream). It is weakest taken PO. All "-morphone", "-morphine" drugs have low oral bio-availabilities while -codone and -codeine have much higher. Hydromorphone's oral b/a is between 20 and 30%. Probably the strongest PO opiate would be oxycodone or hydrocodone or methadone with bio-availabilities of 80-90%.

    I want to note that I am not suggesting anyone IV their drugs. If they don't work when taken as prescribed, go to the doctor and discuss a change of medication. Injecting your pain medicine is going to set you up for a huge fall and when you do hit the ground, you'll have a hell of a time getting back up again.
     
  19. ellavader

    ellavader Silver Member

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    Altho many people attest to the effectiveness of plugging, many on the forums speak of the hazards that are associated with plugging...i dont want to worry you, i just think u should research the topic before it becomes ur main ROA, it could lead to serious complications which r not worth the 'rush'...just looking out man, harm reduction = safe as possible fun! ;)
     
  20. Tercero

    Tercero Newbie

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    I'll have my dog check out the link...didn't think there would be much risk (other than cleanliness, of course). Thanks for the heads up.
     
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