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Opinions - If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Discussion in 'Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics' started by beena, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. beena

    beena Palladium Member

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    Hypothetical question for everyone:

    First of all, people who don't presently use class A drugs: would SWIY use class A drugs if they were sold legally? Presumably SWIY would know that there would be no legal/criminal repurcussions if SWIY did and that the drugs SWIY bought would be readily available, of good quality, and the quality maintained each and every time SWIY used. The drugs would inevitably still be addictive though.

    Secondly, for those who presently use class A drugs: would SWIY feel any motivation to stop using drugs if they were readily available, of good quality and legal?
     
  2. veritas.socal

    veritas.socal Silver Member

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    mescaline is on that list, and is non addictive
    but this is such a great topic, because swim recalls that some hypothesize that LESS people would use were it legalized, and allegedly(swim has no ref to cite) hollands hard drug usage went down upon decrim...and swim aint so sure that its decriminalized there, read somewhere that its soft drug(drug???) and not prosecuted, but still aint legal
    anyways swim doesnt do opiates or coca...but swim loves psychedelics. wouldnt it be great if all swimmers could experiment with whatever(creation or consumption) and not be hampered by drug/precursor laws.
    purity, or should swim say"quality control"...pharmaceutical grades of everything, all adulterants would be sterile....
     
  3. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

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    Hey man, hard drugs are most definately NOT decriminalised in The Netherlands. I think that in the big citites, Amsterdam with its international 'gebruiker' community. Many people find themselves on the streets. Italians, Germans, French, Surinammers, Brits anyone, there are 170 odd nationalities, and if your in the EU, its only a stamp of approval away at the forgein police. The Dutch kids find this particularly unglamourous. That city can suck you in and spit you out. Believe.
     
  4. catseye

    catseye Gold Member

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    ^^ perhaps the OP meant to say Portugal, where all drugs were decriminalized about 9-10 yrs ago and usage has indeed gone down...

    this is such a good question on many levels...catty can only say that at this moment in time, and with full knowledge of the risks and addictive properties, she would indeed be putting on her shoes and heading out to the local chemists for a bag :s
    But its not...and she won't ;)
     
  5. rocksmokinmachine

    rocksmokinmachine Gold Member

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    You think they'd have a credit facility?? :laugh:
     
  6. catseye

    catseye Gold Member

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    catty hopes so, darlin...she also hopes she would earn bonus points for each purchase, and that they would issue loyalty cards :laugh:
     
  7. CaptainTripps

    CaptainTripps Law & Policy sections Staff Member

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    I think if all drugs were legal and were pharmaceutical grade people would make more responisible choices in which drugs they used and how they used them. I doubt that many people are deterred from using drugs due to possible criminal penalities. The real affect the law has is on availability, price and quality. Prohibition decreases availability and quality, while increasing the price. High prices and low quality tend to encourgage more dangerous means of consuming drugs, like IV use as they are more efficient. If heroin was legalized, without legalizing anything else, I think the use of heroin would increase. This is because two of the biggest deterrants, cost and poor quality would go away. The biggest dangers of heroin are from what it is cut with or other problems in the manufacturing process and the inconsistant strength that can lead to overdoses. Also, if heroin were more affordable, people who would never use a needle, might smoke or snort it. This combined with the fact that addicts can take maintance doses and maintain jobs and other responsibilites, might make it more attractive than some other drugs.

    Perhaps the more interesting question would be, if all drugs were legal, would heroin still be their drug of choice. Oddly enough one reason heroin is so popular is that it is readily available and inexpensive compared to some semi-legal drugs like oxycontin, when sold on the illegal black market. One might ask themselves, is heroin really their drug of choice, or rather their drug of default.
     
  8. Titus

    Titus Newbie

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    I would likely use heroin at least as much as I do now (nasally 1 gram yesterday, 1+ gram today) if it were legal. It is of note, however, that heroin is a very benign substance on the human body. Ibuprofen causes more damage to the human body than heroin. Moreover, if legal, I would not be ingesting unknown adulterants. I am able to function well while using heroin, I do not use to the point of nodding so am able to be productive at work, in social situations, etc. My present use is NOT daily on a consistent basis, however. Sometimes I will use for several days consecutively, sometimes I will use for 1-3 days and then not use for the next 1-3 days. The 'negative' results associated with my present use are: 1. the cost, I spend much more than I should on 'recreation'. If I did not use heroin I would have several hundred dollars a week available for other things such as saving for retirement, and 2. periods of 1-3 days when I become sick withdrawing after using for several days consecutively. I miss work on these occasions and it also interferes with my relationship to my wife and other aspects of my life as I typically stay in bed and sleep quite a bit. If heroin were legal #1 would change significantly for the better as I estimate the cost would be less than $100 per week rather than several hundred per week and #2 would likely change by me increasing my use, using daily and becoming and staying physically dependent while avoiding any sickness withdrawing. Since heroin is not dangerous to the human body dependence would not be an issue of concern unless supply of heroin were interrupted. If this were to happen the withdrawal sickness would likely be much worse.

    More generally, I think society as a whole would be MUCH better off. Street addicts, junkies, would be able to afford their daily dose by panhandling, sharing with friends (such as is done with cigarettes as they are not costly since they are legal) , etc. The crimes these addicts commit to fund their habits would not continue to take place. Cigarette addicts do not steal to fund their cigarette addiction. Addicts would also not have to spend a significant amount of time each day running scams, etc to acquire funds to pay for their drugs, they would not skip meals to save money for heroin. Basically, all of the effects from drug prohibition that addicts suffer from: ingesting adulterants, ingesting substances with varying and unknown levels of purity thereby risking OD, spending time in dangerous areas increasing the likelihood of being victimized, increased risk of contracting hepatitis and HIV- I think that if legal needles, information on safety, etc would be more available and even more normalized than it is now as heroin would likely be sold in pharmacies or similar and not the hallways and alleys of ghetto's, etc. Heroin is also a depressant, not a stimulant like coke or meth so prolonged use will not result in erratic behavior, drug induced psychotic episodes or similar so even if there was an increased use among the population (which I think is unlikely based on information obtained from studies in Europe where use went down over time when ready access was given in a medical type setting taking the bad boy/looser image away from heroin use).
     
  9. doctordre

    doctordre Newbie

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    If someone is on heroin, they're going to keep on doing heroin. Regardless of whether it's legal or not. Prohibition cannot stop demand for addictive substances; it can only stop demand for boring substances that doesn't have enough demand for someone to risk selling it.
     
  10. sadskills1987

    sadskills1987 Silver Member

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    watch the bbc documentary the if debate if drugs were legal. it gives some good arguements and i agree with what they were talking about doing for drugs like heroin. by making them available tax subsidized at a consistent purity with clean needles and safe, supervised shooting places, heroin related crime and death will drop staggeringly. if these places also give the option to get off skag with programs i think more will try to stop. in my opinion addicts should be covered under the americans with disabilities act, although that will never happen.
     
  11. Killa Weigha

    Killa Weigha Newbie

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    Why would a heroin user want to stop if it were subsidized (affordable and pure)? Some of us would take the opportunity to actually get back on, I reckon.
     
  12. platinum toaster

    platinum toaster Silver Member

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    Personally I think we should all be able to do what we want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone elses's rights. I'm not sure how someone can call themselves an American and not think that.

    Another question I would postulate though, do you think that with the full legalization of drugs you would see a drop in the number of religious people?
     
  13. Spucky

    Spucky Palladium Member

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    AW: Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

    Because Heroin is a equivalent to Un-Freedom, Imprisonmend and Slavery!

    In his old days the Raccoon had not such a big Problem with the Purity
    or the amount of Smack and not with the repressive Machine,
    in fact he could afford much more luxury Goods and Items,
    but there are some points/crossings in the Human Life
    where a Man want to be Self-Responsible, Autarchy and Autonomic,
    but all this can't be combined with a Drug like Heroin!

    "Freedom" (imo. the ultimate Human Goal) starts in our/yours and my Head!
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  14. Pieces Mended

    Pieces Mended Silver Member

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    SWIM had to look at the definition of "Class A" drugs, as he is more accustom to the US scheduling system. It appears most of them are forms of opiates/opiods. SWIM can say that while he would be likely to use some of the opiates on occasion, he largely has always made an effort to stay away from long-term use of such drugs, even when readily available. Cocaine is on the Class A list, which SWIM would find tempting, but also knows the social issues the drug causes because of the binge habits most users form. SWIM would also only consider either if the cost was to come way, way down as a result of the drugs being readily available and price competitive in the open market.

    As an aside, SWIM finds it interesting that in the UK, hydrocodone is a "Class A" drug, while amphetamine is a "Class B". In the US, it's essentially flipped. Simple pain refills can be faxed over to a pharmacy by a doctor, while the stimulant prescriptions must be hand-written every 30 days.
     
  15. saintsanity

    saintsanity Newbie

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    By interesting account many different cultural factors one can really highlight real world insight into the application of such social agreement by looking at the past. I think Jacob H. Huebert in his short essay http://www.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert35.1.html sums up many points people here and respective social figures of authority that epitomise arguments in favour or more so characteristic neutrality to the phenomenon.

    He ends with the novel point "

    Most drug users were not street criminals; instead, the typical addict was, as author Mike Gray put it, "a middle-aged southern white woman strung out on laudanum."

    This standing out in question of the drugs war when you consider the opposite of the free open distrubution of opioids etc to the complete contrasting criminalisation such culture has in placement now to an effective contrast hugely disproportionation to the socio-political motive and induction.

    You only need at language like "Hillbilly heroin" for those educated in such matters to understand this phenomenon. Like with the past of southern middle aged women being strung out on laudanum bought from the pharmacy, here and today that exact same demographic subtype was used to summarise the opiate addict of today being a southern middle aged women strung out on oxycodone; laudanum, oxycodone, it makes it less than ironic that not only the 1 and 1.5 equipotency makes morphine and oxycodone similar in their characteristics biomedicalically but also culturally looking at the way these drugs have their place in the respective cultures medical community in therapeutic and psychotropic interest are near identical.

    Has much changed and the meanings behind this, don't they teach us something?

    Take care.
    Sean
     
  16. Kidx

    Kidx Newbie

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    If I could function, yeah, but you can't work a job and earn money if you're high on h all day every day...
     
  17. The_Joker

    The_Joker Titanium Member

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    I would like to think that it would improve the problem since the "war on drugs" is stupid and is never going to be won anyway, the only winners are the cartels who are able to mark up their products 10,000% and have so fucking much money they are probably burying trash bags of it in their front lawns since they already have a Porsche in every color.

    Probably within a year, though, i would have a massive cocaine and meth problem.

    Another issue is drug testing. Obviously people shouldnt be driving around or on the job high off their asses. So if drugs were legal and they were doing them at home on the weekend, then that would be legal and okay. Now say you are driving somewhere and get pulled over by the cops. Actually, you have had a horrible accident and killed someone. You arent under the influence, the cops dont believe you are either, but it is protocol that you must submit to a drug test in any accident involving a fatality. You pee in a cup, and it comes back with THC in it. How do they know when you smoked it? It was a week ago, and obviously had nothing to do with the wreck, but how can it be proven?

    You're a doctor, you do surgery and there is a fuckup which isnt really your fault, but there is a lawsuit coming down on you. Unfortunately, you and your buddy did a gram of coke last weekend, and popped a few Percocet. You were off duty, and hell its legal now, you picked it up at 7-11. But its still in your pee. The lawyers are going to push that the fuck up occurred because you were high on coke and pills, which you werent....that was 4 days ago. But your pee is still hot. What's going to happen?

    You see what I mean? I dont know what the answer is, i think people have a right to do whatever they want to if they arent hurting anyone else, but there is this gray area that I dont even know what you would call it. There is a lot of sticky situations legalizing drugs would bring up. Even though arresting everyone who has a joint or a crack rock is filling the jails with nonviolent offenders who dont belong there.....
     
  18. Alien Sex Fiend

    Alien Sex Fiend Silver Member

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    if these were legal, well trying is okay, but seriously if that was true, then you ll be allowed to try thing out for yourself next door to a hospital er room. Frankly these will never ever be legal again, not enough water of time has gone to the drain since victorian times.
     
  19. usually0

    usually0 Silver Member

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    As a non-user of hard drugs (particularily speaking of crack, meth, and heroine) I'd probaly try meth, herione, and probaly buy some coke and probaly MDMA knowing that is pure.

    However, I'm not sure I'd be a regular user. I could get into a good coke habit probaly, but judging from my methylphenidate use, probaly wouldn't like meth, and opiates in general aren't that enjoyable I find, but I'd try herione just to know the hype behind it.

    Would probaly snort H and meth, I wouldn't be that into smoking meth (sounds gross), might try smoking H though actually.

    I think in general I'd probaly use drugs less, hang out with drug users less, but use a wider variety of drugs.

    If drugs were available legally, I think I could abondon a lot of my "friends" who I don't really like anyways, but they get me connects. I could also stop contacting dealers often to make sure they remember me and buying in more than I want because dealers don't want to sell too low quantity usually.

    Also I'd probaly not just stick to one drug like I do now, I'd probaly spend a weekend with different drugs, and try a whole bunch out and stuff.
     
  20. Lady Codone

    Lady Codone Titanium Member

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    Personally, SWIM would probably experiment with a few things she can't get in the current prohibition climate simply because they aren't available to her now and are likely cut w/ god knows what. Heroin? No. Meth? Never. But some lesser amphetamines and empathogens would be fair game.

    As for the "happily addicted" thing: I believe there is no such thing as happily addicted. By nature, addiction is a horrible condition that consumes lives whether the drug is illegal or not (don't believe me? Just ask an alcoholic how happy they are). BUT, legalizing heroin would remove many of the pressures that come with being addicted to a prohibited substance--scarcity, poor quality, cost, legal ramifications, etc, making it easier for the addict to focus on other areas of life, like working and supporting him/herself.