Inducing intense CEV's from DXM with 5HTP.

Discussion in 'DXM' started by fnord, Mar 21, 2007.

  1. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    anyone else attempted this?i know its bad for your 5ht(thats seratonin right?)levels but grandma feels its totally worth it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  2. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    This could trigger serotonin sydrome unpredictably and is gambling a potentially unpleasant to deadly episode. Look up serotonin syndrome to see what SWIM means.
    Not a good idea given the risks. DXM gives insane CEVs all by itself. If You wants to combine it with something, grapefruit juice potentiates the trip and makes it more visual and euphoric.
     
  3. Abrad

    Abrad R.I.P. Platinum Member & Advisor R.I.P.

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    Mixing DXM with serotonergic drugs (eg. tryptamines, phenethylamines) is a bad idea and could trigger serotonin syndrome.

    What drugs does You think work nicely with DXM?
     
  4. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    More info:

    if you can find proof of the deadliness id be amazed I used to eat insane amounts of 5--htp +dxm for days at a time and my friend even injected 5-htp(why i dont know) while they did suffer from some mental fogginess for a few days they were fine after.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  5. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    ok so death is possible but i dont think eating a few 5-htp pills is going to do it:Symptoms

    Symptom onset is usually rapid, often occurring within minutes after self-poisoning or a change in medication. Serotonin syndrome encompasses a wide range of clinical findings. Mild symptoms may only consist of tachycardia, and shivering, diaphoresis, mydriasis, intermittent tremor or myoclonus, as well as overactive or overresponsive reflexes. Moderate intoxication includes abnormalities such hypertension and hyperthermia; a temperature as high as 40°C (104° F)is common in moderate intoxication. As well as the mild symptoms other features include hyperactive bowel sounds. The overactive reflexes and clonus in moderate cases may be greater in the lower limbs than in the upper limbs. Mental status changes include hypervigilance and agitation.[3]

    Severe symptoms include severe hypertension and tachycardia that may lead to shock. Severe case often have agitated delirium as well as muscular rigidity and high muscular tension. Temperature may rise to above 41.1°C (105.98° F) in life-threatening cases. Other abnormalities include metabolic acidosis, rhabdomyolysis, seizures, renal failure, and disseminated intravascular coagulation.[3]

    The symptoms are often described as a clinical triad of abnormalities:

    * Cognitive effects: mental confusion, hypomania, hallucinations, agitation, headache, coma.
    * Autonomic effects: shivering, sweating, fever, hypertension, tachycardia, nausea, diarrhea.
    * Somatic effects: myoclonus/clonus (muscle twitching), hyperreflexia, trem

    Hernandez AF, Montero MN, Pla A, Villanueva E, et al. Fatal moclobemide overdose or death caused by serotonin syndrome? J Forensic Sci. 1995;40(1):128-130.
     
  6. darkglobe

    darkglobe Silver Member

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  7. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    i think the trade off of a chance of slight depression,(no worse then binging on XTC for 2-3 days) and the visuals grandmas seen is defiantly worth it, grandmas seen slight images of full landscapes,milk crates(weird huh?)and a set of praying hands cut off at the topmost knuckle with the skin rolled back to the middle knuckle with exposed viens /nerves etc. all just by closing her eyes and relaxing in a dark room well + the 5-htp.anyways if anyones going to try it look into the effects of seratonin sickness. grandmas always dosed 5-htp in the morning then one every 1 1/2 hours after until shes had at last 4-5 pills you may want less depending on tolerance and body weight.also smoking a joint kicks the visuals in very well.and wait and hour from your last 5htp dose before ingesting dxm .or else your tummy will be unhappy!

    its MHO that this is not dangerous for healthy people and should cause nothing more then a mild headache the next day and a sort lasting depression in most people,please dotn take this as meaning its safe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  8. psyche

    psyche Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    This is a bit offtopic, but talking about a serotonine syndrome... is it similarly not-that-dangerous to combine MAOIs(beta-carbolines, strong MAOIs, at least I've understood) with 5-HTP? That seems to be more dangerous to me but don't know... Just occured that there might be some awesome visuals combining these two and possibly cannabis, since cannabis and MAOI's have given SWIM very visual effect indeed. Visual in a manner, that things he saw were primarily of a definite thing, more so than with mushrooms, altough not that convincing/real by appearance.
     
  9. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    pretty sure that would be dangerous,but i dont know...as with all drugs there comes a danger,you could snort a line a coke for the first time and die from a pre-existing heart condition,when we make the choice to do drugs,we are taking our lives into our own hands and deciding to gamble,that said until someone offers proof of the dangers of a few 5-htp pills combined with dxm i still stand by my personal belief that this is safe,im not suggesting anyone try thing im just stating my opinion. please remeber to start with low doses of both and keep an eye out for side effects.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  10. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    SWIM's point is that it could cause serotonin syndrome, which seems to appear somewhat randomly. I have had it happen (tramadol + DXM) and it is really unpleasant and lasts a while. Note that SWIM also left it a sliding scale between irritating and death. Death rarely occurs, but can, particularly with pre-existing, occult conditions. The point it, there is a risk and as a harm-reduction site, risks should be voiced. I have used high dose tryptamines with high dose DXM and gotten away with it, but would not recommend that either without knowing the risks involved. That said, we all make our own choices and the responsibility lies on each one's shoulders in the end.
    5HTP and MAOI is more dangerous than 5HTP and DXM. I would not recommend that, nor see the point in it.
     
  11. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    occult conditions? could you explain this?

    I has had seratonin syndrom he sufferd mild depression and the inabilty to paint the letter g(temporyary dsylexia?)
     
  12. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!


    This is correct, but 5-HTP is not an Research Chemical like 5-Meo-DMT or 5-MeO-DiPT or 4-HO-DMT. 5-HTP is a nootropic, a precursor to serotonin (also known as 5-HT) that one can buy in health food stores or from online bulk nootropic retailers.

    As for taking 5-HTP with DXM...I think it depends. If one has unusually low levels of serotonin while at baseline, then it could be a fine way to enhance the trip. If one has healthy levels of serotonin - or, worse, unusually high levels - at baseline, one could be asking for serious side effects, perhaps even death.

    I have combined 2C-I and 2C-E with DXM. He did this before I joined d-f, learned that it was contraindicated, and warned him off of it. They were crazy-cool trips - incredible CEVs - but VERY overstimulating. Much of the body load matched the description for mild serotonin syndrome perfectly (hypertension, agitation, hyperreactive reflexes, increased heart rate, explosive diarrhea, shivering AND sweating, difficulty breathing). And this was absent any SSRIs or MAOIs. Just the recreational drugs.

    Fortunately, he was prepared: he keeps benzodiazepines on hand for emergencies and used them in these cases.

    Later, having been told that mixing DXM and serotonergic drugs was a Bad Idea, he decided to do it again - but working up from tiny doses, like a good scientist. He found, to his dismay, that even miniscule amounts of the two - say, 5mg of 2C-E and 50mg of DXM - together caused feelings of toxicity. Even if some of it was psychosomatic, the unpleasantness was enough to make him swear off such combinations for good. Nowadays he won't combine DXM with anything except nitrous, cannabis, and/or alcohol or benzos (but not both - alcohol and benzos don't go together, either).


    ECL
     
  13. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    can someone provide a link to something abobute serotonine sickness and death?involing dxm preferably?or at least something that dosent involea overdose of ssri's?
     
  14. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    Wikipedia article on serotonin syndrome

    DXM FAQ: Mixing DXM and Other Drugs

    White's section on 5HT drugs (LSD, 2C-X, etc) is limited, but remember that the FAQ hasn't been updated in six years. We know that both DXM and 2C-X class chemicals inhibit the re-uptake of serotonin; that's why mixing the two is dangerous. 5-HTP is dangerous only because it puts more serotonin in there to begin with.

    Note: 5-HT and serotonin are the same thing. 5-HTP is a serotonin precursor sold in vitamin shops. Taking 5-HTP leads to there being more 5-HT floating around in one's brain, which means that it would take less reuptake inhibition to cause the types of problems associated with having too much of it.


    ECL
     
  15. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    Why is that? I think his DXM FAQ is a fine piece of work. He jumped the gun with "This is your brain on dissociatives," but was man enough to admit as much and issue a partial retraction when corrected by Cliff Anderson in "The Bad News Isn't In."

    I wasn't into drugs at the time, so I know nothing of what other exchanges may have occurred on Usenet. I'm going only from the stuff posted over at Erowid.


    ECL
     
  16. svenghali

    svenghali Silver Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    Fnord, what dosage of 5-HTP and DXM did You take...?
     
  17. fnord

    fnord Palladium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    not sure of the milligrams(50mg?each maybe?) but 2-5 OTC htp pills mixed with 1-4 bottles of cough syrup.if your going to try it id just use 1 pill an hour before hand.and of course heed the others warnings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2009
  18. SuprSonik

    SuprSonik Titanium Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    I used to take Lexapro (an SSRI) and doses of DXM ranging from 240-360. I was aware of the risk of serotonin syndrome and started with low doses of DXM and worked his way up. At doses of around 320mg with a daily dose of 20mg Lexapro, I didn't exactly get visuals, but his senses were heightened greatly to colors and flashes of light.

    The most interesting thing I found at those doses though, was an INCREDIBLE sense of euphoria, rivaling and perhaps surpassing that of pure MDMA. Since stopping the Lexapro, DXM is nowhere near as enjoyable, although 5-HTP does enhance the effects somewhat. I have considered taking Lexapro again just for the effect it has in combination with DXM. Even now I find himself longing to experience that feeling again; even MDMA doesn't seem to cut it for him. I have a fair amount of experience with various drugs, and he insists that DXM on Lexapro produced the most enjoyable experiences he's ever had on a drug.

    Now, I takes about 200mg of 5-HTP 2 hours before dosing on DXM. I would recommend 5-HTP to those who use DXM for its euphoric effects; it makes the experience more enjoyable. SWIM can't comment on 5-HTP's effects at the 3rd and 4th plateus, however he assumes it is not a good idea to combine 5-HTP with doses that high.
     
  19. svenghali

    svenghali Silver Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    Either SWISuperSonik has found a 'safe' way to potentiate DXM for its serotegenic qualities, or his body works differently than many others. Personally, I feel that while the mixture may not necessarily be as dangerous as people urge him to believe, the people that usually urge him to believe so are educated chemists and psychonauts. They usually know what they're talking about, when they're talking about drugs. In conclusion, I don't think too many people should try this, but before I start to sound like an authority, could someone knowledgeable chime in?
     
  20. El Calico Loco

    El Calico Loco Gold Member

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    Re: 5-htp + dxm = INSANE CEV's!!

    Caveat: I'm neither a chemist nor a neurologist.

    I think combining DXM with anything is asking for trouble, 5-HTP and SSRIs in particular (I won't even mention MAOIs - that will kill you outright). I think the degree of danger depends upon the person, however. Someone with low levels of serotonin at baseline (like a depressive) might be able to combine such things without incident; someone with normal levels might have "insane CEVs", agitation, and diarrhea, but nothing else; someone with high levels of serotonin might have a seizure.

    If one is naturally anxious, irritable, manic, or possessed of lots of nervous energy, one should stay the hell away from such a combination.

    Remember the words inscribed on the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.


    ECL