Injecting - Injecting pure Phenylethylamine ( PEA )?

Discussion in 'Phenethylamines' started by oggy, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Since pure phenethymine is destroyed by the liver enzyme MAO-B, would injecting it work and how much would be safe to start of with? Swim can get his hands on deprenyl but is not sure if this would be safer or not?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2010
  2. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    emphatic no to both of the above! do not mix l-dep with phens, disaster in the making. those who have injected 'pure' phens IV reported experiences they never want to repeat. the oral route is still your safest bet.

    MAO is there for a reason, the Chairman's primary role is to take care of the exogenous xenotoxins and screwing around with irreversible inhibitors aka deprenyl is best avoided.
     
  3. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    It might be worse yet, Nano. He might be talking about Phenethylamine itself. Not a 2,5-R-4-X variant. And the answer to injecting pure Phenethylamine is a resounding NO as well.
     
  4. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    Pure phenethylamine is readily available and some indicate it provides a short rush when snorted or smoked.. It's marketed at a weight loss/stimulant supplement (like ephedrine was).
    Sounds dodgy at best...
     
  5. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?


    Yes I am talking about Phenethyamine itself. You can buy it at most supplement stores on the net and people on these boards are using deprenly to inhbit MAO-B and freely posting this advice on the reviews and forums.

    Does anyone no how to make recreational use of pure Phenethyamine?
     
  6. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    I do not recommend using PEA. But if your SWIM really wants to try it, he should start at very low doses, preferably snorting the PEA because that's a less direct way. If no unpleasant side effects are experienced, the doses can be raised step by step, and if no adverse effects are experienced with insufflating high doses, injecting low doses (SubQ or IM first) MIGHT be safe.

    If You really wants to try it, tell him to be fucking careful.
     
  7. oggy

    oggy R.I.P. Silver Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    Product Description:
    PEA is related to our own catecholamine neurotransmitters and their amino acid precursors, tyrosine and phenylalanine. PEA has arousal properties similar to catecholamines and may be one of the pleasure substances in the brain. PEA has been called the "love drug". Most PEA absorbed from the bowel is destroyed in the blood or liver by the enzyme MAO-B.

    Recommended Dosage:
    100mg daily or as prescribed by physician.


    These reviews made Swim want to try it.


    Date: Tuesday 13 June, 2006

    Review:


    i don't know where to begin! this stuff is awesome.
    it was cheap so i tried it...my expectations weren't that high, until it kicked in. i felt a warm pleasure going through me in waves, like nothing i have ever felt before. you know that feeling you have after an intense orgasm? it was like that..times 10! it also heightens sexual pleasure, a lot. just try it, it's cheap.
    i suppose you would have to eat your wieght in chocolate to get this sensation.


    Date: Wednesday 14 June, 2006

    Review:


    This stuff is absolutely amazing! I stack it with liquid Deprenyl (3 - 5 mg daily), which slows the rate PEA is broken down by the body and hence extends its activity - Fantastic mood and energy enhancer... PEA is "nature's amphetamine" but without the sides effects of synthetic/illegal drugs (it's what makes chocolate give you a lift) - I find just 250 - 500 mg per day works great...highly recommended!


    Date: Wednesday 19 July, 2006

    Review:


    The feeling is quite pleasurable taken with an MAOI (EMSAM transdermal selegiline [deprenyl] in my case) but caution should be exercised.. anything past 150mg can raise blood pressure to a substantial degree. I'm taking enough selegiline so that it's inhibiting both MAO-A and MAO-B isozymes, but from what I've heard from other people, low doses of deprenyl can cause the same problems. Start slow and be careful; shortness of breath, stiff neck, headache (particularly in occipital region) can be signs that you've had too much. That said, the combination is very nice. I find mixing it with ascorbic acid (vitamin C--I use emergen-C type drink powders which contain quite a few other substances) either increases its effectiveness or speeds up its absorption.

    Other people have questioned the purity of the product. Not much information is supplied by **. There are suggestions on other sites for removing any possible adulterants. Pure PEA is very basic and is a liquid, I don't know what is used to produce the powder but some people have wondered whether it hasn't been fully reacted, leaving traces of HCl or something else..

    Good luck trying to find it anywhere else, though (especially as a salt). Extracts from chocolate are probably a waste considering how many other substances are present in chocolate (including a good deal of tyramine, which isn't very smart to mix with even a low dose MAOI); the PEA content is very low compared to caffeine, theobromine, theophylline, and other substances that you're not going to want to take in large doses.


    Date: Saturday 30 September, 2006

    Review:


    I agree with the remarks that this product is enhanced with an MAOI. I've been experimenting with deprenyl for the last couple 10 days or so.

    Last weekend I tried about 500mg of PEA with about 2.5mg deprenyl, and didn't feel much. About a week later, and the same dosage for both, the effects are quite pronounced.

    I'm not sure about daily use, as this great fuzzy feeling is so pleasant, I'd likely find it distracting at work.

    I'll definitely keep this as a regular recreational supplement.


    Date: Sunday 22 October, 2006

    Review:


    50/5.
    Simple. Im on the stuff right now. Took roufly 300mg twice over 3 hour period. Beats any sort of brain booster COMPLETELY out of the water. Cocaine dosent compare to this.
    Taken with roufly 5mg of dable deprenyl after cycling for 3-4 weeks. Some users any be my experience, have noticed that it takes deprenyl a while to boost the MAOB to levels allowing the PEA to remain effective to youll have to take it for a few weeks before noticing the PEA working.
    You can double its effectiveness as well by simply sitting still and doing strong taoist breathing excercieses. Try this.
    Sit still with back straight. Inhale deeply from stomach for count of 5. Squeze the kegel/PC mucle hard and your abs to push the blood into the extremities and hold for 10-20 seconds. than exhale all oxygen and repeat. Good for you as well without this but seems to supercharge the effectiveness.
    Simple deep breathing helps as well. Very euphoric and high speed of though. Extremely motivated as well. And no down as well. After roughly an hour to two seems to let you down gently and your brain seems to work alright although feels a little disapointing as well.
    On a side not it does seem to speed up metabolism as well. After two weeks of semi random use bf dropped ~2-3%. No sideefects. No addiction.
    Extremely highly recomended.

    Date: Wednesday 29 November, 2006

    Review:


    This stuff rocks.

    Sure, I'd like to know more about this product (test for purity, etc.).
    Also, we do not have many information about regular PEA use in human, so I hope more studies will be done in the future about it.

    I was taking some deprenyl for some time so MAO-B is not an issue.

    Put me in an incredible mood, full of energy, can do many things at the same time.
    Awesome, A++++.

    (And I take ALOT of caffeine, and I can tell you it's not on level..at all)

    Don't take this at bedtime, hahaha.


    Date: Tuesday 15 August, 2006

    Review:


    I'm writing this review while on 200mg of PEA. It's definitely a warm feeling like another reviewer noted, and it seems like nothing could bother me. I also notice I'm doing things slower, almost like when you're drunk, but it's nothing like being drunk. Noises don't bother me like usual, my sister just came into my room wanting something, which would normally annoy me. But I just feel too good. I love it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2007
  8. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    say, you sure you kids aint got your l-phenylalanine and your phenethylamine screwed up? the latter is a metabolic product of decarboxylation of the former.

    combining l-phenylalanine and l-selegeline (l-dep) is well known for antidepressant and cognition enxancing effects. personally, i found this combination a safer and much more effective replacement for toxic SSRIs.

    however, i urge anyone thinking of working with deprenyl to do as much research as you can, and certainly be aware of any own metabolic idiosynchracies.

    and please, please do not inject food grade supps even if marketed as 'pure' materials.
     
  9. Shaman

    Shaman Silver Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    I previously posted this on another thread, but it pertains here, so I'll repost it.

    I have been experimenting a lot with PEA (phenylethylamine) recently, and yes it is very dangerous for a number of reasons. First of all, it requires the use of selegeline, which is an MAOI that is selective to the MAO-B enzyme. MAOI's interact with many drugs and some foods; hypertensive crisis is a common concern and could be fatal. It must be taken orally, and is very difficult to dose due to the fact that absorption is greatly affected by stomach contents. A dose of say... 300 mg on a full stomach could produce a mild high, while the same dose on an empty stomach can raise blood pressure to dangerous levels and produce extreme discomfort. Affects also depend on the amount of selegiline that one is taking. The selegiline MAO inhibition is not an immediate response when starting or adjusting a dosing regimen, so this also needs to be considered. I can tell you that it is very addictive, and the cost doesn't motivate a person to stop or use it wisely, since it is very cheap compared to other amphetamines. Taking it in pill form also makes it all too easy to take regularly, as its primary affects only last around 20-40 minutes. This combination of PEA with an MAOI has barely been studied at all, and few people have used it, so very little information exists about it.

    A note on addictive quality: There is a "sweet spot" that one may wish to achieve with dosage- a point where pleasurable affects are maximized before the uncomfortable side affects and hypertensive danger set in. The desire to reach this "sweet spot" along with the unpredictability of dosage is obviously a dangerous situation. I have more self control than 95% of the population, and has made the VERY frightening mistake of overdosing on more than one occasion.

    Negative side affects:
    -HIGH blood pressure
    -RAPID heart beat at higher dose
    -muscle stiffness, jaw clenching, back stiffness
    -scattered thoughts, desire to do many things at once. It can be very hard to get anything done at all.
    -a bizarre reddening of the skin which happens unpredictably. Seems to occur around 25% of the time when dosed multiple times in a day. The reddening is usually confined to areas of the skin where it has been scarred. Scars that you forgot you had can show up as a very noticeable bright red.
    -reactions to PEA vary widely for no apparent reason. It is sometimes more enjoyable than other times.
    -vomiting has occured unpredictably although this is very rare. (I not sure about this, but I believe that it is highly acidic and may damage the stomach. It certainly burns mucus membranes very badly. Long term damage is a real concern.)
    -An Uncontrollable urge to talk might make people suspect that you are on something.

    All in all, I strongly recommend that people NOT MESS WITH THE STUFF. It is just too unpredictable, and we know so little about it.


    Some other notes:

    A tolerance does develop but it is surprisingly mild.

    There is conflicting information regarding the conversion of phenylalanine to PEA. There are two forms of this amino acid: D and L. It is generally believed that one of these forms is converted in the body to PEA, but different sources don't seem to agree upon which is which. There are quite a few sources claiming that L-phenylalanine converts to PEA, and while this may be true, I can assure that it does not convert in quantities sufficient to be psychoactive.

    There is not near enough PEA in chocolate to have any psychoactive effect, even with selegiline. Even if you could eat that much chocolate, the PEA would take too long to absorb with such a large amount of matter in the stomach.

    PEA doesn't make you feel "in love", although it mimics a few of the pleasurable feelings that a person in love might feel. The effects are closely comparable to other amphetamines. Here is my take on it: PEA is one of the love chemicals, but certainly not THE love chemical.

    I think that this chemical would be very helpful in treating depression if a different method of administration could be developed. Perhaps a transdermal patch would make this a viable depression treatment, since dosage would be regulated and released over an extended period. Lower dosage will elicit a sufficient mood lift without side effects.

    It would be a real shame for people to start misusing this little studied compound, messing themselves up or dying. Once this happens, it will be outlawed and demonized, and that will pretty much rule out any chance that this compound will be studied and developed for treatment of depression. Please people! Use your head and lets keep another useful tool for the enhancement of life quality from being banned by the portion of the population that doesn't bother to think or make informed judgments.

    So yeah, there are a few problems in experimenting with this substance. After re-reading my post, I see that I have heavily outlined the dangers and negatives. I just want to stress the fact that people considering experiments with PEA need to be VERY CAREFUL. Just because it is legal does not mean in any way that it is safe. In fact, it is more dangerous than most illegal amphetamines because of the unpredictable nature of dosage described above.

    Alright, now that I have made clear the dangers and negatives, I guess I should give some of the positives:
    -general mood lift at lower dose
    -motivation, everything is more interesting
    -wakefulness, focus
    -social interaction is more enjoyable
    -tolerance is very slight, the small tolerance that does build is likely just psychological.
    -short duration can be positive, since one can sleep a couple hours after dosing.
    -I say that coke has never done much for him- it requires him to take much larger doses than other people, and the cost just isn't worth it. But PEA on the other hand, induces euphoria and energy for him that others sometimes describe when doing coke.
    -as stated above, it seems to be a very effective anti-depressant due to the lack of tolerance; it is also a naturally occuring neurotransmitter. *If anyone reading this post happens to be involved in R+D for treatment of depression, I strongly suggest that you look into PEA. You could stand to make a great contribution to mankind, and I suppose you could make a lot of money in the process.

    Peace out, and please be safe...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2010
  10. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    No one in R&D for depression would have an interest since you cannot patent PEA.
    Thanks for the post -really interesting. What about parenteral dosing?
    Does it work without deprenyl if snorted, smoked, plugged or injected ? This mode of administration may make the dose more consistent. I do not like speedy stuff much but is always interested in a novel substance. However, the hypertension is very worrisome to SWIM since it already is a problem so I will probably stay away from it for the present. Please continue to share your observations and be careful not to kill youself.
     
  11. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    What about plugging PEA... would partially bypassing first-pass metabolism this way increase its effects?
    Oh come on man, that's hard to believe :D.
     
  12. Shaman

    Shaman Silver Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    Hmmm... can't be patented, didn't think about that. Its a shame that nobody will do the research since there is no money to be made.

    Snorting is not an option since this stuff burns like a sonofabitch. Any euphoria gained would be drowned out by the intense pain. Sublingual is also not an option, I say it taste like shit. This stuff is just plain nasty on the mucus membranes. Transdermal administration seems to be a promising route, eliminating the need for frequent dosing. This is a method I plan to research. I am a little nervous about smoking or injecting after experienceing a couple of overdoses. OD is unpleasant and very frightening. I have no idea what a reasonable dose might be for these methods. And there is no way I will be able to convince SWIM to stick this stuff up his ass.
     
  13. snapper

    snapper Gold Member

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    Re: Injecting pure phenethylamine?

    Sounds like up the ass may be the best mode of administration. I will leave it to other members to give it a try. Did it have any effect for You with any mode of administration other than oral when deprenyl was not being used or is that necessary ?

    Smoking may not be such a big deal BTW, if really small doses are started with.

    SWINicaine. Not into stimulants much relative to other classes of mind alterants. This is not to say that I do not like them......
     
  14. bige1030

    bige1030 Silver Member

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    Phenylethylamine HCl bulk powder

    I have been reading about phenylethylamine (PEA) and found that most people either take more than 1 g of it or take it in a lower dose with an MAOI like selegiline (l-deprenyl, Eldepryl). SWIM hypothesized that the IV route would bypass the MAO breakdown in the gut, making PEA more effective in lesser doses without the risks of taking an MAOI.

    So SWIM decided to experiment with the IV route with some bulk phenylethylamine HCl powder (99.33% pure). SWIM must say, this is perhaps the easiest thing to prepare for injection, as it's readily water soluble and, of course, pure.

    I injected 1/8 tsp (approx. 362 mg according to the manufacturer of the bulk powder) of PEA on two occasions. Here are how he would describe the effects:

    The immediate rush after injecting feels both good and bad. It produces a euphoria, increased heart rate and blood pressure (could be dangerous in the moments after injecting), and it feels awakening. However, it does cause some facial flushing, warming of the tongue, and a weird taste in the mouth, all of which last for 15 seconds or so. It also has a sort of anxious feeling that goes along with it, resembling a mild panic attack. I was worried about blacking out or passing out but never did.

    The rush wears off in a few minutes. Then, I felt like his mood was brightened somewhat. Once, I was sleepy, and it took away that feeling for about 15 minutes. I think it's nice but short-lived.

    Someone else's experience:

    SWIM's friend tried it IV after SWIM mentioned it and didn't like the rush. He described it as dirty, like a panic attack, or like having taken epinephrine. He didn't think it was speed-like at all. He also agreed it was short-lived but swore never to do it again.
     
  15. Nnizzle

    Nnizzle Gold Member

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    Re: Phenylethylamine HCl bulk powder

    Very interesting. MAO-B, which metabolizes phenethylamine, is present in blood platelets (i.e., in the blood so it will still metabolize PEA when injected) and in neurons, so IV'ing PEA unfortunately is not going to directly affect MAO-B function, although it will supply the brain with the drug much quicker than oral administration, obviously, and enzymes can only work so quickly. That is why an MAOI is usually necessary, but obviously it is different when one is administering it orally or intravenously.

    But this is a valuable report, I don't think there are any accounts on D-F of PEA intravenously.

    Was the PEA pharmaceutical grade or food grade? This is an important difference. Injection of non-pharmaceutical grade products is inadvisable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2010
  16. bige1030

    bige1030 Silver Member

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    Re: Phenylethylamine HCl bulk powder

    But anyway, the powder is 99.33% pure, the manufacturer claims. It will produce a head rush at first but mainly has a lot of side effects, including tachycardia, palpitations, sweating (at higher doses), nausea, a need to catch breath, a need to drink water, and this is at 1/8 tsp (0.62 cc, 372 mg according to the manufacturer's volumetrics).

    If it turns out to be too much, I found that letting lorazepam melt in his mouth helps.

    Its effects seem to pass too quickly, though, at least the horrid feeling ones. Perhaps this is because of the lack of MAO-B inhibition in SWIM's protocol.

    I would warn not to skin pop at all - even by missing - because it will burn. Lidocaine cream (Lanacane) helps with this feeling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2010
  17. bige1030

    bige1030 Silver Member

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    Re: Phenylethylamine HCl bulk powder

    Someone who lost his mind (SWLHM) should have realized. Perhaps that is why the rush is so short-lived.

    Thanks for the compliment! As for pharmaceutical or food grade, SWLHM is not for sure. All he knows is that there's no E. coli or Salmonella in it, and that it's 99.33% pure.

    But he must discourage IVDU, or at least binging and careless technique. He has cellulitis and three abscesses and had to go to the doctor for one and the hospital for the others. He got 2.5 days worth of vancomycin 2 g IV q12h in hospital. He was discharged with Bactrim DS, luckily, since his blood cultures were negative and his MRSA is sensitive to this cheap oral antibiotic.

    If only he used as close to sterile technique as he could have. No, it's not enough to wipe both elbows with alcohol for a binge...gotta do it right before each shot. Not only that, but he swore this stuff off, changed his mind, and dug it out of the trash can. Dumbest thing ever. He should have waited a few days for a new batch if he was going to do it.

    Of course, there's also reusing needles, not washing the shot glass that it was prepared in, using water out of a cup he drank from, and wearing out his median cubital vein to the point of thrombosis which caused a lot of missing. Those pretty much cover his carelessness in his PEA binges.

    But one good thing from the hospital visit: SWLHM was sent a very gentle, kind, caring psychiatrist who wants to see him again. Hypnotically, he told SWLHM "No more needles." Well if SWLHM weren't already convinced that IVDU is bad for him, he's always going to have this gentle voice in his head saying "No more needles." every time he thinks about shooting up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  18. DiabolicScheme

    DiabolicScheme Titanium Member

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    Absolutely NOT! In fact this substance shouldn't even be taken orally. My hamster took 1 gram with coffee in the morning and the hamster reported that his blood pressure spiked as soon as the "high" came in.

    2wogc4h.jpg

    My hamster rode it out but My hamster will tell other hamsters that it was pretty freakin scary to see his blood pressure that high. Absolutely not a substance to play around with.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2013
  19. skiiline

    skiiline Newbie

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    I have just recieved 25 grams phenylethylamine and decided after dosing 4 grams with hordenine I would inject 200 mg. And whoa was not expecting what happened complete euphoria, hair standing on head sudden need to get up and go outside heart racing although within two minutes these effects diminished now 20 mins later just slight increase in focus occasional light headed feeling. Will do again though
     
  20. Adas

    Adas Silver Member

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    Injecting it is ridiculous. Either as a freebase (that would probably cause instant death) or as the hydrochloride salt, which is very acidic and thus may disrupt your blood's natural pH. This can be fatal, too. If you made a neutral salt of PEA (citrate etc.), it would no longer be (such an) insane idea.