Intresting Drug Called ( BZ )

Discussion in 'Research Chemicals' started by desperado, May 14, 2007.

  1. desperado

    desperado Mercury Member

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  2. desperado

    desperado Mercury Member

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    Sorry i think i posted this in wrong section
     
  3. Alicia

    Alicia Gold Member

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    Its a very interesting deli-rant, bear in mind Jacob's ladder is a film and does tend to over do it slightly. but since you mention the film.

    Jacobs Ladder - Dance scene
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgkI_LzhfZo&mode=related&search=

    Jacobs Ladder - Hospital scene (very freaky and kinda cool)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=lCZN60mBeaQ

    Jacobs Ladder - Deleted scene a cure from the ladder
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfMjoVYcg9g&mode=related&search=

    ^^ whats in the pipette he gives jacob i wonder? be interesting to see what Nag thinks of this.
     
  4. Paracelsus

    Paracelsus Platinum Member & Advisor

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    Let me sum it up before Nag sees this thread:

    BZ is a deliriant hallucinogen (anticholinergic). Known to cause EXTREME experiences of the datura-style. It might sound fun, but it ain't.

    BZ was tested at Edgewood Arsenal (they tested thousands of drugs as potential chemical warfare agents). It was found to be ideal to incapacitate users for 3 days and more. The US Army used it as a chemical weapon in Vietnam.

    It might sound "crazzy", but not in the good way. Deliriants tropanes are known to decompose brain tissue and cause permanent insanity, although due to lack of data we don't know if this happens with BZ.

    I am not overly concerned though, because I don't see how one would obtain BZ.
     
  5. fastandbulbous

    fastandbulbous Titanium Member

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    BZ is not something anybody would actually want to consume after reading it's psychopharmacology. 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate is the top of the heap of the Ditran series of anticholinergics (N-substituted-3-piperidols). While not as physically toxic as their natural counterparts (atropine, scopolamine etc), they do retain their mindfuck quality & 3 days of it from a milligram dose of BZ sounds about as horrible as it gets.
     
  6. bob_arctor

    bob_arctor Titanium Member

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  7. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    I've been in contact with Dr. Ketchum and have a signed edition of his book. Enjoying reading it slowly. He's asked me to write him a review when I'm done.

    But as was said above "before Nag see this" - I'll not add anything further.
     
  8. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    ooh i'll have to get this one!
     
  9. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    Jacob's Ladder, excellent movie... the effects purportedly produced by the drug do not sound quite so pleasant (either to watch or participate in).
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2007
  10. Felonious Skunk

    Felonious Skunk Gold Member

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  11. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    ^and we all know that no thinking man would self-administer Jimson weed...

    but i wonder sometimes what the extent of the compound library and catalogued effects at places like Edgewood, mythical compounds of the JB-11x series...
     
  12. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Dr. Ketchum is very forthcoming and loves to talk, Nano. He was there while all this went down, and his book is a wealth of data and anecdotes - as well as photos. If you bought same, drop a note with the order about talking with him regards the JB-x series. I think he's a lonely, old government spook-doctor! You can make him talk! LOL.

    Jacob's Ladder is a nice fantasy - but of no help to actual researchers into the amazing molecules.

    As an aside - did you know they tried using VX nerve-gas as an antidote to BZ? And visa-versa?
     
  13. nanobrain

    nanobrain Platinum Member

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    ^wow! well that almost makes a twisted kind of sense, chemicalwise, (anti)cholinergics are some weird agents, to be sure.

    cant even imagine what it would be like to be a patient underging such treatment, whichever versa..
     
  14. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    Wasn't patients. Was volunteers who (extra pay in the ARMY) came to Doc Ketchum's House-O-Strange for a 3-Day re-grooving. Rubber-Room. Padded-Walls. Padded-Nurse. Padded-Doctor...

    Interestingly enough (as grounds to buy his home-brewed (forward by Shulgin) book), the volunteers often signed up for another ride on the BZ. Perhaps talking to Alice was better than marching about to get ready for Vietnam.
     
  15. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    For what it's worth, I find "Jacob's Ladder" more valuable than that; to him, it's a meditation on the subject of death, and not too shallow either; very rare for Hollywood. The only other (Hollywood) movie he's found that approaches it is "Dead Man Walking," and that in a much more shallow way. But the fact remains (as You stated) that it still doesn't help researchers investigate anything...
     
  16. Felonious Skunk

    Felonious Skunk Gold Member

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    <SWDS (Someone Who Doesn't Stink) heads down to the basement to cook up a molecule that will make Ketchum talk...>
     
  17. chAos

    chAos Silver Member

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    lol, i have never seen a drug which seemed as much as a tool to torture people :D (according to the effects on erowid)
     
  18. Nicaine

    Nicaine Titanium Member

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    As long as we're on films, that brought up a line from "Dracula" (1979, John Badham). "If I could send you to everlasting, burning hell, I would!" - (Laurence Olivier (spoken with his usual melodrama) as Prof. Van Helsing, to Dracula). Sounds like just the drug to do it.
     
  19. Nagognog2

    Nagognog2 Iridium Member

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    How did we get from BZ to Vlad the Impaler? Who is still considered a hero by many in Romania. Seems a minor difference between slipping someone an anticholinergic that makes a person see strips of bacon lining the floorboards, and some guy who dealt with thieves by pushing sharpened poles up people's assholes and out their shoulders in the town square. Though I can think of a few politicians who could stand a dose (of which one - I won't say).
     
  20. Alicia

    Alicia Gold Member

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    gee golly gosh, if i cared i wondered whom they'd be, with there dizzying opinions, in that case BZ for the masses..