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Drug info - Is Vyvanse absorption affected by Vitamin C supplements?

Discussion in 'Adderall' started by thecomedown, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. thecomedown

    thecomedown Newbie

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    I've been on Vyvanse for about a month now. I have been exercising regularly and getting at least 6 hours of sleep a night, averaging about 8.5 hours a night over the course of a week.

    I noticed after a couple of weeks that my medication seemed to stop working...I no longer have the focus required to do my Calculus III online class, and I have a final exam in ~12 days. I aced everything so far (100% on the mid-term) but that was back when I was on Adderall.

    I'm not sure if the Vyvanse doesn't work as well for me anymore because it simply doesn't have the racemic mixture, which I think worked well on me because of the 'kick in the ass' a lot of ADHD people get from the l-amphetamine isomer, or for some other reason...

    I've been eating lots of protein (at least 75 g a day, I work out for a short period of time everyday) and have been exercising outside in the sun as well.

    Now for the point of the thread: I realized that it stopped working some time around when I started using Vitamin C supplements. I was taking 2-3 of these a day; each capsule is 1 gram each. Could it be that the Vitamin C is interfering with the absorption of Vyvanse? I've been taking at the very least 1 capsule each morning and sometimes 2.

    I'm not going to tomorrow morning and see what happens (I'll report back here) but I'd like to know if anyone (preferably with extensive scientific knowledge on amphetamine/lisdexamfetamine absorption) has any idea whether or not this could affect it. It could very well be both the lack of l-amph isomer and the Vit. C supplements, but again, I'm not sure; hence why I'm posting this thread.

    I'd really appreciate any input or thoughts on my situation.
     
  2. Impure157

    Impure157 Silver Member

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    Vitamin C wouldn't cause the medication to become ineffective on it's own but it would definitely contribute.

    Vitamin C is l-Ascorbic Acid in some form, acids lower the pH of your gastric system and the urine in your bladder.
    The d-amphetamine in vyvanse is neutralized by acidic environments, so if your gastric and urinary pH are acidic then the drug will not be absorbed into your system as well, more will be neutralized before it can be absorbed, and when it's in your system more will be neutralized in the bladder before it can be re-absorbed.

    That means too much acid lowers the dose your body actually absorbs and shortens the duration, those effects combined with the tolerance that naturally develops from repeated use may be why the medication is no longer effective.
     
  3. thecomedown

    thecomedown Newbie

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    I skipped the Vitamin C supplement today and I have definitely noticed a significant difference.

    I thought Vyvanse's prodrug attributes rendered it unaffected by changes in pH in the gastric system? Is this only true as the actual prodrug is being metabolized? e.g. when the prodrug is finally metabolized is the d-amphetamine still metabolized the same way Adderall/Dexedrine etc. are?
     
  4. Impure157

    Impure157 Silver Member

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    If it was like some prodrugs in that it was a different molecule all-together but it's metabolites were active you would be correct. This is not the case as l-lysine-d-amphetamine is the just d-amphetamine molecule with an l-lysine attached which is cleaved off by enzymes in the blood.

    Due to being essentially the same as d-amp, only bulked up, it is still alkaline, so it's also somewhat neutralized by the gastric system. And by the time the pH of the bladder becomes a factor it has already been absorbed and metabolized into d-amp, so it will have all the issues from urinary pH as normal.
     
  5. Jason Smith

    Jason Smith Newbie

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    For how long does absorbic acid affect the ph? How long might it take for the absorbic acid in this pre-workout supplement to neutralize, so that administrationtration of vyvanse isn't wasteful?

    I am out if coffee and really don't want to leave for groceries until I've done my routine at home. I want to take this pre-workout, but I just took my vyvanse.

    If I were to take tums 1000mgx4 and seldom do so, would this serve as a buffer, and allow me to take the pre-workout without either vyvanse or caffeine absorption being compromised?

    Thank you, I have always wondered this. I heard that tums only affects one part of the overall pH (only the stomach and not bladder) and want this not to be true. Say it isn't so!

    Also, I take 70mg vyvanse in the morning then 20mg optional as a booster for my school and work schedule.
    --if I were to take 70mg vyvanse, followed by the tums(and of course with a basic breakfast +water)

    ...would taking a 20mg right after the pre-workout (45 minutes after tums) be equivalent to taking 70mg?

    And yes, I could have gotten groceries by now. But if you wouldn't mind sharing anything you can regarding essentially the half life of absorbic acid, I would appreciate it.

    P.s. and is citric acid a weaker acid? It doesn't seem to get as much attention, yet is in a lot of preworkouts and sodas...

    P.s.s. if I took a oH strip and dipped it into various beverages, supplements would this be a legitimate scale?

    Thank you, I really appreciate finally being able to ask these questions on a forum I trust.

    Jason
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  6. staples

    staples Gold Member

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    Only 1g of calcium carbonate (Tums) should be sufficient, no need to take 4, that seems to be like begging for kidney stones.

    Why have you switched to lisdexamfetamine from Adderall if it worked well for you? I suspect the pharmacokinetic differences account for much more than the lack of the levoamphetamine, which has more peripheral activity, relatively more noradrenergic activity, and was initially considered for the formulation of Adderall when it was going to be used in pediatric/adolescent patients, who happen to metabolize l-amphetamine at a different rate from adults, the idea being that this could ease comedown effects, not necessarily contribute to the efficacy of the medication. I'd expect you to find dextroamphetamine to also provide what you've called a "kick in the ass" effect.

    I've never heard of an acidic environment "neutralizing" dextroamphetamine, especially a pharmaceutically prepared ionized salt of dextroamphetamine complete with buffering agents, etc. Presumably to neutralize it means to make it inert? By which chemical process?

    Gastric acidity does not affect the bioavailability, absorption rate of lisdexamfetamine, nor the delivery rate of dextroamphetamine into systemic circulation (Pennick, M. (2010). Absorption of lisdexamfetamine dimesylate and its enzymatic conversion to d-amphetamine. Neuropsychiatr dis treat, 6(1), 317-27.).

    However, once the levolysine is cleaved from the dextroamphetamine in the blood, then the active dextroamphetamine is subject to urinary excretion as usual, which is known to have a pH-dependent rate (Beckett, A. H., & Rowland, M. (1965). Urinary excretion kinetics of amphetamine in man. Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology, 17(10), 628-639.).

    Yes, taking an alkalizing agent such as calcium carbonate will eventually raise the pH of one's urine.

    Ascorbic acid's pH level is within the typical range of the normal acidity level of the stomach.

    Citric acid is considered a weak acid but it really depends on the concentration and form.

    I think that covers at least some of the major questions here...

    Be careful taking extra psychostimulants with a workout supplements containing caffeine, although that plus the l-tyrosine should be somewhat synergistic to the effects of dextroamphetamine,..

    You mention protein consumption, but are you eating proper meals at appropriate times? It sounds like you exercise plenty, but do you give yourself time to relax and/or engage in a past time?

    I'm not sure acidity is really the major factor here, it sounds perhaps like nervousness regarding upcoming exams (to which lisdexamfetamine could contribute) may be an issue worth considering. Do you feel unprepared or overwhelmed? Especially with an online course, where distractions are easy to find, nervousness can manifest as apparent distractability, but since this is exactly a symptom that the medication is meant to treat, it's easy to surmise that the medication has lost efficacy when that may not be the case.

    However, I see no apparent issue with contacting your physician and requesting to be placed back on Adderall if it seemed to work better (or more consistently) for you. That seems much easier and less time-consuming than scrutinizing your diet, health, lifestyle, etc...

    Good luck and keep us posted!
     
  7. Jason Smith

    Jason Smith Newbie

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    Thank you so much, I will read this over once I am out of school. I appreciate the detailed reply! Also, I have tried to switch instant release but my psychiatrist says he no longer prescribes it for its risk of being abused.
     
  8. Crystal_Queen

    Crystal_Queen Silver Member

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    L-arginine can compete with L-lysine competitively for absorption.
    high dose l-lysine decreases argine enough to be a treatment for herpes,
    I'm assuming the opposite would be true.