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Extraction - Isopropanol Poppy Pod Extraction

Discussion in 'Opium & Poppy' started by trichopium, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. trichopium

    trichopium

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    hey, everyone, swim wanted to tell you guys about a method he recently used to extract a potent smokeable product from poppy pods using isopropanol alcohol.

    Swim has tried using water as well as isopropanol alchohol to make a product but has never had amazing results until now. This is Swim's procedure.

    Someone who is not you will need:
    Isopropanol alcohol, 99% is preferred, 91% or higher may work.
    A coffee grinder or something similar that can crush poppy pods into powder.
    A metal strainer or cheesecloth.
    A stove or some way to boil water.
    One large pot and a smaller one.

    1. Grind the poppy pods into a fine powder.

    2. Mix the alcohol and poppy powder in a bowl, Swim uses a ratio of 10ml per gram of material, so for 20 grams you would use 200ml.

    3. Bring some water to a rolling boil. Then pour it into a bowl and let the water sit for 3 minutes. Swim does this because it lets the water cool to less than 176 F, the point at which opiate alkaloids are destroyed. Swim has tested this with a candy thermometer and 3 minutes cools the tempature to about 160F. Swim does this because alkaloids are more soluble in alcohol when the tempature is higher.

    4. put the bowl with the isopropanol alcohol in it into the pot with the water. Swim likes to use a pot that can float in the hot water. the bowl with the alcohol will heat up and aid the extraction of the alkaloids.

    5. Let the alcohol filled bowl sit in the hot water for 2 hours, then boil some more water and do step 4 again, but this time let it sit for only 15 minutes. the alcohol will be green at this point, dont worry, its normal.

    6. Filter the alchohol through a metal strainer or cheesecloth to get the majority of the pod material. the alcohol should still be warm at this point.

    7. Then Filter the alchohol through a coffee filter.

    8. Evaporate the alcohol and enjoy. Even though the alcohol is green before evaporation, it dries to a dark amber/dark yellow/light brown colour.

    Swim gets about .5g of "opium" from 20 grams of good quailty poppy pods, in comparison 10g of the same pods in tea would get swim nicely toasted.

    the "opium" obtained from this method smokes and tastes just like the real opium swim has seen; completely vaporising and leaving minimal residue. It even has that same flowery taste real opium has, but only when burned. Swims "opium" has a very light smell before combusted, unlike the strong smell of latex based opium.

    does anyone have any experiences with this, what do you think?

    thanks
    Trichopium


    ***************************************************

    EDIT, swim was too high/addicted when he developed this tek, after months of sobriety and rethinking he has simplified it greatly...

    Crush the pods into powder

    Heat iso alcohol to 140 deg F

    Pour the heated ISO into a glass with the pod powder, let it sit for 45 seconds.

    Filter though cheese cloth then coffee filters

    evaporate and vaporize…

    This will be a much much much cleaner product, do not follow any instructions except the above.

    You can think me by packing fatty hit and ripping it to the dome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  2. blueflame128

    blueflame128 Newbie

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    Hmmm, swim will have to try this. Is there any difference in potency from just making pod tea with water, and then evaporating off all the water?
     
  3. trichopium

    trichopium

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    Swim never got a product that was enjoyable or even possible to smoke using water, swims product would always harden up and produce little smoke when burned. In comparison Swim would say this is much more potent, possibly even as potent as some of the opium swim has purchased on the streets, as it takes swim just a few small hits to start feeling good, and swim has a decent tolerance.
     
  4. blueflame128

    blueflame128 Newbie

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    Well then, swim will be trying this with his next batch of pods. He'll report back on how it goes:thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  5. aroidgrower

    aroidgrower Silver Member

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    swim made a similar extraction with Kratom. swim later learned that the leaves still had alkaloids that were not extracted with the alcahol and used a water/ lemon juice boil to extract the rest of the alkaloids. Do swiy think a very low heat water extraction after the alcahol extraction might get more from the pods?
     
  6. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    SWIM has actually been working on the exact same thing in reverse.

    Basically the use of alcohol is (in theory) not needed because alkaloids are totally water soluble. However, a friend of SWIMs had been having extremely good results with a certain method of his which was a modified form of the CFO TEK.

    Basically the theory was as such.
    The saturation point of water being unpredictable, differing with many factors including temperature, volume, pressure, pH level, etc. It was decided to remove the opiates from the pods via another method before opiates were removed with water.

    Because of said saturation point, cellular walls may still hold a certain amount of alkaloids, unable to release them even in a large amount of water - - This was the theory.

    This theory seemed to prove true to a point because SWIMs friend has come out with fairly consistent results rivaling SWIMs own CFO.

    ISO extraction alone will not be good, it will take a lot of carcinogens, flavor and odor influences and other things which are not water soluble. This can be overcome by re-extracting the ISO solution with water and then separating.

    By doing this, the added advantage is -

    small amount of liquid to initially extract (ISO)
    smaller amount of water than is used in the actual CFO TEK.
    a concentrated extract is made which all alkaloids are then extracted from, making for a more complete extraction.

    Some disadvantages are -

    A lot of water insoluble things now make it into the CFO and may not be well filtered out.
    A solvent is now used for extraction, making the extraction itself more dangerous.
    Some optional steps are now a MUST, like defatting and a very High grade filter as the CFO solution will now have much more plant fats and waxes and other organic based compounds which are not otherwise water soluble.
    Having to make sure that the ISO is completely separated.

    SWIMs friends working method will be put in the CFO section for those whom are interested.

    There are things which could improve THIS method however which are easily spotted by mere observation.

    A few suggestions are -

    * Use a higher grade filter than a coffee filter or at least use multiple coffee filters. Microfilters are now fairly easy to obtain via interNUT.

    * Use the "bath" method of evaporation for faster evap times.

    * Using the Ice-O-Lation TEK on the ISO will also freeze any water content in the ISO, effectivly pushing the alkaloids into the ISO via particle expansion and reducing the amount of ISO left to filter.

    There are more, SWIM will explain them all a little later.
    Good thread, Peace.
     
  7. bcubed

    bcubed Gold Member

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    Lizard recalls seeing something similar at another site, where the production of laudnum (opium-laden ethanol) was discussed. IIRC, the alkaloids were first extracted with water, reduced to a molasses-like consistency, and then dissolved in as pure ethanol as possible. The ethanol solution absorbed the alkaloids, with plant matter settling to the bottom (multiple extractions were done).

    When Lizard gets around to a poppy-pod extraction, that's probably how he'll do it, just evaporating off all of the ethanol.
     
  8. Waste

    Waste

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    SWIM will definately be trying this with the remainders of his pods :)
     
  9. trichopium

    trichopium

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    Swim has used alchohol to extract from Cooked flake opium with very very good results, but the yeild from 1 gram of CFO was about 0.05. Swim is very experienced in the making of honey oil(hash oil) using 99% iso and can get a contaminent free product, Swim is trying to do the same with opium. Swim does know that his product contains alot of things dissolved by the iso other than alkaloids, but he has been experementing with different soak times, and the key just seems to be heating the alchohol.
    so it may be possible to do a quick soak with hot temps to get a relatively pure product. Swim knows that the pharmaceutical companies use a mix of Iso and chlorofrom to extract. Swim will be trying ethanol instead of isopropanol in the near future, as well as a quick heat soak of pods using iso.

    swim will report findings asap...

    none the less Swim still enjoys smoking the product from the original procdure.

    how does swim smoke their cfo.... Swim uses a torch or stove to heat up a piece of coathanger, then swim places a ball of Opium on the end of a pin, and touches the Opium to the hot coathanger while inhaling through a pen tube.

    Trichopium
     
  10. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    SWIM uses a meth pipe and gentle heat to slowly vaporize it.

    :)
     
  11. Mammon

    Mammon Silver Member

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    If the ethanol that can be extracted from a reflux still was used (about 95% pure) as the solvent, would this help with the health problems? Is ethanol better than ISO?

    Great to see this forum back on track - talking about extraction methods.
     
  12. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    Pure ethanol would be superior.
    95 ISO could still be used, though one would want to know what the other 5% is. If it is a poison put in there to stop people drinking it then one would be inclined to distrust it.
    Technically even methylated spirits would work (Methanol).
    Shellite (petroleum hydrocarbon, alcohol made from petrol bi-product).
    And various other alcohol derivatives.

    Ethanol, since it is well known for its extraction performance with other essential oils, and being well known to be safe for human consumption would be the solvent of choice in SWIMs opinion.

    Peace :)
     
  13. Mammon

    Mammon Silver Member

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    Cheers Samurai, great to see you back.

    Trichopium, would the bowl with the ISO need to be covered when being heated? SWIM has never worked with the stuff but he assumes it evaporates pretty quickly. So, how much does SWIY lose when it's heated?
     
  14. deltakappamuMD

    deltakappamuMD Silver Member

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    oh man. you guys scare me. PLEASE REMEMBER that isopropanol (ie isopropyl alchohol aka rubbing alcohol) is very toxic and lethal if ingested in enough quantities. It can cause ketonemia unlike the metabolic acidosis that methanol causes if ingested. Blindness and particularly renal failure are risks if it is ingested in ANY quantity. So please please if you want to use an alcohol stick with ethyl alcohol (ethanol).

    None of my advice is a substitute for your own doctor's opinion and consultation. I can not be held liable for any advice given on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  15. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    Do not heat it, heating it is totally unnecessary.

    :)
     
  16. trichopium

    trichopium

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    do you mean during the extraction or after you have filtered out the pods?
    the bowl does not need to be covered, only a small amount of alcohol would be lost.

    Swim is going to be posting an updated method in a few days.
     
  17. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    With a solvent it does not need to be heated at all. In fact it can lead to problems that one definitely does not want.

    :)
     
  18. trichopium

    trichopium

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    depending on the solvent, in this case 99% isopropanol alchohol, indirectly heating it is nessecary, iso has a much higher absorbtion rate of alkaloids when the tempature is increased. indirectly heating can also aid to speed the evaporation.
     
  19. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko

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    To aide particle expansion yes (which can help greatly done the right way). For actual absorption rate SWIM does not see how that would work with a solvent.

    Heating will definitely aide the evap times but can lead to dangers, one would want to do this with caution. SWIM remembers a a friend of his cat whom has a rather interesting face from evap'ing solvents.

    SWIM has now performed this same (and another similar) TEK a few times with and without heat and has seen no advantage in heating the solvent. This has been a consistent result. The only reason SWIM says this is because sometimes people are silly and accidents happen. A consistent result is achievable without this danger to the masses.

    If one is insistent on using heat then one would recommend reading up on the various flash points of the solvents used and remaining in temperatures well below the flash point of the solvent used as well as using a heat source that is indirect and contains no open flame at all.

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  20. PaulC

    PaulC Newbie

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    Hi SamuraiGecko,

    FYI - the Flash Point of Isopropanol is only 12 deg C.
    It's boiling point is 82 deg C.
    As everyone here probably already knows, it is both highly flammable and toxic.

    Take care out there.