Injecting - IV question

Discussion in 'Opiates & Opioids' started by buzz, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. buzz

    buzz Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    the other day I tried shooting up for the first time and screwed up, it hurt like hell.[​IMG]


    the question is how deep the needle goes ( inches) and how you make sure you´re in the vein
     
  2. Motorhead

    Motorhead Platinum Member & Advisor

    Reputation Points:
    988
    Messages:
    1,115
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    45 y/o from Canada
    Welcome to the forum buzz. First of all what were you trying to shoot? And im also wondering how exactly you screwed up? Judging from the question it sounds like you are having trouble finding a vein. What pain are u refering to, the needle sticking in or were you pushing while not in a vein? What im getting at is that when you post give some relavant information even if it is a question. Also using the search engine can answer many questions.


    Ah well, im a sucker for newbie mainliners. Hate to see anyone get an abcess.The first answer is, not very far. Certainly not inches as the veins you are looking for are right under the skin. Here in Canada, with the metric system i prefer my darts with the 12.7mm long needle. Once you've prepared your arm and rig for shooting and determined your point of entry stick the needle in, with the eye upwards, at approximately 45 degree angle. You should first feel it pop the skin then pop the vein. If you havent penetrated the vein you will see it move and bulge to one side. Pull out and try again. Once you feel that you are in, you have to make sure. The answer to the second question is by flashing. Pull the plunger back and see if blood draws into the barrel. If you got blood you are ok. If not pull out and try again. This will all seem awkward and difficult at first, but with get easier with practice.


    My biggest word of advice is to do more research, on this forum and elsewhere, and most of all to get someone who knows how to shoot up to show you the ropes. You can read all you want, but i really think newbies should have an 'instructor' present when it comes to mainlining.


    cheersEdited by: motorhead
     
  3. buzz

    buzz Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    3
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    I was tryin to shoot morphine in the cephalic vein (lower arm,very close to where it bends)


    Once I popped the skin I thought I had it made,I wasn´t aware of neins movin and bulgein


    soI pushed the plug,and it hurt,it hurt so much I was discouraged to try again.


    In the end when I pulled out the spike,blood flowed out of the hole.


    Guess I wasn´t in.
     
  4. Beltane

    Beltane Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    532
    Messages:
    507
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    from California, U.S.A.
    SWIM's dealer shot him up w/ no tying off and said it was super easy and that he had great veins, which he does.



    I tried another time at home and swung about 6 times before he got a
    hit. Time after that was about 4. SWIM looked like a pin
    cushion 'til all that healed in a couple days.



    SWIM's problems were twofold. First, for whatever reason, SWIM
    was trying to hit smaller veins so as to "save" larger ones for later
    when he might not be able to see straight. Whatever. Go for
    the easy ones.



    Second, and infinitely more interesting to SWIM, is that somewhere in
    the back of his head he wasn't sure this was a good thing for him to be
    doing. It's really not that difficult to hit a good vein.
    SWIM's thought more about this and wonders what it'll be like the next
    time he takes spike in hand when get gets home in October. He
    doesn't think this'll be a problem anymore and expects to hit about
    every time now. We shall see-



    - B
     
  5. RickyTarr

    RickyTarr Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    15
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Hi


    I should swab the injection site with iodine prior to injection (Iodine=$.99 at drugstore). Rubbing alcohol works ok. Helps reduce tracking by keeping infection down.


    RickyTarr
     
  6. Beltane

    Beltane Palladium Member

    Reputation Points:
    532
    Messages:
    507
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    from California, U.S.A.
    SWIM always uses rubbing alcohol. He noticed that docs tend to
    use iodine and rubbing alcohol but noticed that all his friends just
    used rubbing alcohol. Plus it doesn't stain your skin:)



    - B
     
  7. GETERDN

    GETERDN Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    3
    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    from U.S.A.
    did swim check to make sure that he was in a vain by allowing a small amount of blood flow back into his rig ???
     
  8. milky tears

    milky tears Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    68
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Hey buzz, I'd agree with everything motorhead said, but I prefere to go in at not so much of a steep angle as 45 degrees, I find it much easier to hit a vein at more like 65 - 70 degrees, (especialy as you have only done it a few times) it means that once you have popped both skin and vein, you can get away with moving the needle around a bit more without coming out of the vein while you draw back to check you're in.


    Also as said above, make sure you clean the injection site prior to the hit, and after the hit, if you press down on the injection site for a couple of mins, it will stop you from getting a suspicious bruise on your arm. (By stopping blood from leaking out of the vein, and collecting under the skin.)


    Lastly, please try not to get into a habbit ofshooting regularly, as once injecting becomes second nature, it's easiy to develop a needle fixation, where you are not only addicted to the drug, but also to the whole process involved.


    Stay safe dude, MT.
     
  9. NeedleInTheHay

    NeedleInTheHay Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    5
    Messages:
    16
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    some people can feel both "piercings" ...when the spike goes thru the
    skin, then when it penetrates the wall of the vein. maybe you can
    too.always pull before you push (the plunger), and if you see that
    parachute of blood, you are ready for takeoff. also, i second
    m.t.'s thoughts, stay clear of the spike if you can.
    experimenting is cool, but if you get into the habit, it never goes
    away.
     
  10. ecs24soldier

    ecs24soldier Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    11
    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    i always use a half cc syring with an ultra fine needle as long as Im not shooting coke or pills I find that if you push the needle in at an angle following the vein you have a much larger window of opportunity to register. If you go through you can always pull back a little and once you hit the vein and youve already pulled back you will register. Ive always been a firm beliver in slow injections ecspecially if your using a new batch of drugs. In the old days when I used to slam it all really fast I had several really close calls including 2 ODs and some very unpleasant coke rushes where I thought I was going to die. I haven't really mainlined for a couple years sometimes dilaudid here and there. I have severe nerve damage from injuries in the army and have legitimatly been on opiates for the last couple of years. Now I use IM injections i find this safer and the high lasts for 3 times as long as IV you lose that quick rush but with meds like dilaudid that rush only lasts for a few mins, with an IM injection the rush is not intense but the effects last for atleast 3 hours
     
  11. Aesthir

    Aesthir Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    from Canada
    Morphine is acidic (morphine sulphate) and so you need to shoot slow once in the vein to allow time for your bloodstream to take it away and dilute it. Shooting morphine fast will burn and probably damage your vein acidically (obviously poking a holecauses a bit of damage too). Also, you'll feel it right away, as a burning sensation, if you slip out of your vein and get a nice SC injection, which lasts longer but you miss out on the rush.


    With oxy and dilly's, which are not acidic (ending in -one, oxycodone, hydromorphone), I find that you can shoot these as fast as you want to.
     
  12. Be-Bop

    Be-Bop Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    183
    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Just wanted to agree with most of what is written above & add a couple of things....(1) Cleaning the injection site IS IMPORTANT!!!! If you don't you can get a bacterial infection around the valves of the heart(endocartitis{?})- i have known two people (not closely..) that have DIED of this infection. Also swab spoons with alcohol, use boiled or distilled water, wash hands etc..I may be paranoid, but i don't think i can overstate the importance of absolute cleanliness while IV injecting..not much hassle for MUCHO benefits!!!! Also, it is a good idea to use sterilised cotton, such as a tampon for your filter- DO NOT use a cigarette filter as they contain fibreglass fibres that can enter your bloodstream!! Not good! (2) I realise that not all places in the world make it easy to obtain clean fits, but really try to use a clean, sharp syringe every hit, every time!!(27-29 gauge)If you don't have 'good' veins, use a tourniquet- but don't keep it too tight for too long. Release it once you know you are in, ie. when you jack-back & have blood. Be gentle, going in (20-25 degree angle, ie. shallow), & once you have 'jacked back' & got some blood, push in slowly& gently..then pull the syringe out gently..i have noticed some people go in gently but (maybe distracted by the effects of the drug) don't withdraw the same way! If you are going to be injecting regular, i think it is a good idea to rotate your injection site- the puncture wounds heal a lot more quickly if they are not being used every time. (3) When you pull out, raise your arm above your heart while pushing on it gently with a tissue- keep up this position for 30 seconds or so...it prevents excessive bleeding & bruising..it is a good idea to MAKE SURE you have stopped bleeding- this prevents the embarassment of blood stains on shirt sleeves!! & believe me, it is embarassing!!! BE CLEAN & BE GENTLE.....but as is stated above, it is best not to start in the first place...not that i can talk...oh, one last thing..if there is a needle exchange in your area, make sure you return them there, this is how they justify their existence- how many needles come back in. Once used, cap it &put the needle in a screw top container, never cap someone elses fit! BE RESPONSIBLE in disposing of needles, is it any wonder that 'normal' people hate junkies when they see dicarded syringes as they are walking their kids down the street? I know i would![​IMG]
     
  13. Be-Bop

    Be-Bop Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    183
    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Another thing to add, the 'angle' of injection, i was thinking about it today when i had my morning..you know! i go in at a very shallow angle, nearly parallel with my arm..tho' the thing i wanted to sat was that it is also important to have the angled side of the needle, the side that enables you to see the 'hole' on the end of the needle, facing 'up' towards you..(i wish i could draw a diagram..)..so that the longer side of the needle is facing toward your arm. Anyway, that's it for my injecting tips..just be clean, calm, slow & gentle!
     
  14. Aesthir

    Aesthir Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    from Canada
    Be-Bop... perfect explanation of which way the needle should go in. Basically so the sharpest (pointiest) part enters the skin then the vein.


    As for the syringe angle vs your arm (or whatever), I find that depends a lot on how good your veins are at the time. If they are fat andsticking out (you're hot, just had a good workout, well hydrated, etc.) then the angle can be very shallow, like under 20 degrees. A shallow angle helps from poking through the other side, and injects into the bloodstream in the same direction as the blood is going.


    However, sometimes my veins are not so good, either I'm cold, or I've been sitting on the computer for a long time, I'm dehydrated, etc. When the veins are in this hidden state, I find it easier to hit them at a steeper angle, like 30-45 degrees. I don't like IVing in this state because it is easy to poke through the other side, or the vein moves, making you miss is completely. Some people's veins are always like this, so a tourniquet (or tie) is recommended. The shallower the angle, the better.


    Dehydration and stimulants play major roles in how tough it is to break through your vein wall. Being very dehydrated or on meth (just saying) makes your veins very difficult to penetrate and a higher angle is necessary, otherwise you just slide the pointy needle on top of the vein until it jumps out of the way.


    This is all in my opinion, of course...
     
  15. gremlin182

    gremlin182 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    15
    Messages:
    44
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Excellent thread gents, now heres somePROFESSIONAL advice: If using iodine swabs, KNOW that the betadine soln. (iodine) only works to kill bacteria AS IT IS DRYING!!! Do not swab and keep moist and then inject, its a waste of the betadine, and it will burn like hell as you are pushing fresh iodine into the blood.


    To FURTHER prevent track marks and such, WASH your injection site with antibacterial soap, scrub the heck out of it. Using alcohol swabs just gets the Staph. aureus and Strep. species that live on ALL of our skin (its a human thing) a little bit drunk, at least the ones that can do damage by infection. The weak bugs on the skin don't cause problems even if pushed into body with a needle. Its the tougher bugs and the crap you get after not showering for two days coating your body, that cause problems.


    As far as FEELING THE "POPS" of skin and vein, that is when your vein and skin have hardened after repeated sticks. For newbies, they are definately not going to feel a vein "POP", and will be focused on the pain of skin penetration to much to feel the skin "POP".


    Best method to test if in a vein, IS TO PULL BACK THE NEEDLE, if you dont get an easy pull back with blood coming back in, YOU ARE NOT IN THE VEIN!& nbsp; HOWEVER...&n bsp; know that the smaller the needle size, the less blood you will see, as blood is thick, and what you are pulling back with a 27 or 30 gauge needle are LYSED (broken) red blood cells, so it flows very poorly. Bu if you can see a bit of blood in the semi clear colored portion of the needle cap, you're in a vein. If using a 23 or larger needle, you will get a fast and furious blood return, just like seen in "Pulp Fiction," which by the way SWIM plays the music from the injection scene every time he slams. What a rush.


    And as stated, get some high quality ALCOHOL PADS from pharmacy, the cheap ones, as I JUST learned, will shed fibers, and are only good for one or two wipes on the skin, if they are used to clean gear, they will leave fibers all over everything!


    Also, while there is another post our there on artery/vein differentiation, what was said before is true, a very delicate vein, like on the back of your hands and feet, will HURT when injected into, unless using a VERY fine needle and injecting very slowly. They are thin walled vessels and they distend easily and strech the surrounding tissues, and thus pain.


    Veins have NO NERVE endings, ARTERIES HAVE nerve endings, meaning, if you feel a whole new "PINCH" as you search for a vessel, and your plunger gets pushed back or fills SUPER easy as you check to see if you are in fact in the lumen of a vessel, guess what? You hit an Artery, and you better pull out the needle fast, or risk losing the extremity!


    Questions and PM welcome.
     
  16. Be-Bop

    Be-Bop Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    183
    Messages:
    123
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    what gremlin182 said...+ when wiping your skin with a swab, you only DO IT ONCE, IN ONE DIRECTION...even tho' i sometimes don't follow my own advice re. this...if you wipe 'back & forth' you will just wipe the 'bugs' back on to the skin!!! Even tho' i don't do this all the time (tho' i ALWAYS swab!), as gremlin182 says...you really are best to wash your arm AS WELL!!!


    Take good care of yourselves, y'all!!!


    Be-Bop [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. newguy22

    newguy22 Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    1
    Messages:
    104
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    be careful shooting morphine, the pain you felt was a miss and you can get a bad infection from moriphine,swim seen a guy miss and his arm sweled up 3 times its size. iv is not to be messed with you will know when you got a vein when you see blood enter the needle, then pull back on the plunger to make sure you have it and then put it in.moriphine stings like crazy when missed and is real dangerous.
     
  18. deji

    deji Silver Member

    Reputation Points:
    10
    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    I would definitely recommend against IV if you have never done it.

    But if you are, do it safely. I did IV for several years. Lots of times I did it safely, lots of times I didn't. I have not done it for a while now, and although I seem fine now, who knows what damage I will see when I get older.

    Brand new needle, then break off the tip and throw it out. That way, you won't be tempted to use again. Dull needles will push particles of skin into you. Keep the injection site clean. Use good cotton, never cigarette cotton.

    Whenever I read stuff like this I have massive guilt. So although I most likely will be fine, I still have the mental pain for the rest of my life. Thats why I say don't even do it. The little bit of extra feeling you get from IV, isnt worth in the end. It is possible to keep safe 100%, but when caught up in heavy heroin addiction, it is pretty much impossible to be safe every single time.
     
  19. BlackCook

    BlackCook Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    82
    Messages:
    97
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    1.) Its right..if you have missed, it burns like hell...
    2.) If you try the first times, you will have problems, like everybody has...there are a lot of people who have perfect veins but didnt had the "talent" of shooting...some ppl have, other not..
    3.) You really have to pull to see if blood comes in or not and lot of people proof this several times while they are shooting because you can get out of the vein if you are shooting too.
    4.) never ever be so horny on it to shoot it in when you are not really in the vein...i kno people who lost their fingers and feet because of this..the morphine and the acid which is used to solve it make very bad things to your flesh, means its getting necrotic and thats not nice...
    5.) shooting comes best, but i would think about it...there are more than enough ppl who thought they could manage it and finally didnt...
     
  20. hapie2cu

    hapie2cu Newbie

    Reputation Points:
    0
    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    58 y/o from U.S.A.
    I noticed that there are step by step visual instructions on how to inject IV drugs on U-Tube. Haven't seen them myself yet but I would assume they would be better instructional tool then just a verbal instructions.